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Don't you hate it when ... Part 2

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Don't you hate it when ... Part 2

Old 05-31-13, 11:58 AM
  #26  
Kai Winters
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MUP's weren't and aren't built/designed for "training", etc. They are basically sidewalks.
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Old 05-31-13, 12:06 PM
  #27  
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Also some California vehicle codes on Class 1 bikeways and bike paths

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21211.htm

Referenced in OCWheelmen law summary

https://www.lawheelmen.org/bikelaws.pdf

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Old 05-31-13, 12:48 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by MattFoley View Post
So by that logic, bikes should ride on the left side of the road because there is a large difference between bicycle and auto speed. And I'm sorry, but "stay right except to pass" is not an oversimplification....it's exactly how simple it should be and really is the underpinning of pretty much all our traffic behavior. I don't know how trying to make rules up as you go like "well, peds should stay on the left, even though bikes should pass on the left, but only sometimes when they feel safe and if it's a full moon..." is going to make anyone safer.
On the road, pedestrians are supposed to walk/run on the left side of the road and bicycles are supposed to ride on the right side of the road. I think most people recognize why it is like this.

I don't see any compelling reason why this should be different on a MUP, particularly given the higher likelihood that pedestrians will obscure the use of their hearing with earbuds.

I'm clearly not going to convince you and I'm o.k. with that.

Originally Posted by Kai Winters View Post
MUP's weren't and aren't built/designed for "training", etc. They are basically sidewalks.
This is a good point. There is a large difference betwen MUPS and bike lanes. Speeds appropriate for bike lanes may be very inappropriate for crowded MUPs.
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Old 05-31-13, 01:25 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Kai Winters View Post
MUP's weren't and aren't built/designed for "training", etc. They are basically sidewalks.
I think this is the only logical way to look at them. I rarely use MUPs, but when I do, I basically expect anything from the peds. It's not worth getting bent out of shape about it.
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Old 05-31-13, 01:58 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
But I did find this on the Santa Ana River Trail site. It says pretty much the same thing. Traffic stays right except to pass.

https://www.santaanarivertrail.org/tr...etiquette.html
Now that you link that, I realized that's pretty much the behavior I see all the time on trails. Everyone behaves like a vehicle.

So it's confusing.. behave one way on the road as a pedestrian, and another way on a sidewalk. Given that a MUP is kind of a hybrid between a road and sidewalk, it's easy for people to be confused what to follow.

And the erratic behavior of MUP users is why I stay on the road.
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Old 05-31-13, 02:26 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by cplager View Post
On the road, pedestrians are supposed to walk/run on the left side of the road and bicycles are supposed to ride on the right side of the road. I think most people recognize why it is like this.
Actually our laws here in Ca say that runners peds etc should be on the opposite side of the road when a sidewalk, walkway or trail is not present. Most cases that I have encountered joggers heading straight on with me in bike lanes they are but for some reason the ped still seems to think he or she has the right of way. Not so when there is a clear path present that they should be using.
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Old 05-31-13, 03:02 PM
  #32  
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I do hate it when we spend time arguing over "grey area" rules.
I don't believe they are actually grey. I think common sense, or (if that isn't working) posted signs should tell everyone to travel in the same direction. Slower traffic to the right. I personally never cared for the "walk against traffic" rule either. I mean really..if a car does happen to swerve in your direction and you do happen to be paying attention, I still doubt you would have the presence of mind or the speed and agility necessary to jump out of the way.

I do believe if everyone spent as much time making sure their local trails had signs posting the rules as they did responding to this post, there would be no misunderstandings.
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Old 05-31-13, 03:03 PM
  #33  
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I will just say, drives me nuts some peds walk with and some against triffic on MUPs if we could just get it one or the other would be nice. Or peds with headphones taking up the whole path sometimes 2 or 3 across are freaken annoying. As for the debate I see both sides, just would love that they do or post one or the other. I am slowly converting to just road / parkway road riding as I cant ride fast enough consistantly on a MUP to be useful unless bad weather or off-peak times.
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Old 05-31-13, 03:23 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by MattFoley View Post
Nah, getting worked up about it is what spoils your calm. If you're riding an MUP with the goal of getting calm, you need to work on expectation management a little. MUPs are basically Thunderdome. If you want calm, ride some country roads.

Hmmm...well then, now I have to outfit a mountain bike like I am in Death Race.....Thunderdome, HERE I COME!

Kidding aside, I know what the OP means, but that is also why I only ride the MUP very early morning where the runners that are out are few, and know to stay to the right. I always give a verbal warning of my approach and a hearty "Good morning" on my departure. Never know when you might end up on your noggin and they come jogging around a corner to help.
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Old 05-31-13, 03:27 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
Actually our laws here in Ca say that runners peds etc should be on the opposite side of the road when a sidewalk, walkway or trail is not present. Most cases that I have encountered joggers heading straight on with me in bike lanes they are but for some reason the ped still seems to think he or she has the right of way. Not so when there is a clear path present that they should be using.

You have cyclist friendly MUP rules, our are only that the slower traffic keeps right, the runners have a crushed limestone path to run on sometimes, and cyclists are the ones who have to bow out to everyone else. There have been reported a few riders ticketed for "riding too fast for conditions" by our Forest Preserve cops. When riders have asked about the speed limit, the cop's response was it was at their discretion and speed wasn't the issue.

I usually avoid that area as it is usually packed all weekend long with parties and kids.
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Old 05-31-13, 04:10 PM
  #36  
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Again I apologize for introducing this contentious topic but I'm glad I'm wrong. It frees me from the self-righteous attitude that was ruining my bike rides.

Charlie
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Old 05-31-13, 06:35 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by MattFoley View Post
Agree that peds need to walk facing traffic on the road (for instance, on the shoulder)...on MUPs, the standard is that peds ARE traffic, and so should stay to the right.
Around here, there are only two standards on MUPs:

- Pedestrians wear earphones and blast their music so loud they're completely unaware of anything else around them
- Bicyclists travel at 20mph and rarely announce themselves.

In both cases, I believe it is much safer if the pedestrians are walking on the left side of the path so they can see oncoming bicycle traffic.

If your municipality has different regulations, then by all means follow them.
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Old 06-01-13, 06:43 AM
  #38  
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I used to ride on MUP when I first started riding, but have stopped for this very reason. I think it unfair for others to have to dodge me and frankly I get tired of dodging them and saying on your left, etc! I will stick to my 2 lane backwoods country roads for my serious rides.

I will ride on the MUP if the kids want to ride and we are just cruising.
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Old 06-01-13, 06:48 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Ursa Minor View Post
Again I apologize for introducing this contentious topic but I'm glad I'm wrong. It frees me from the self-righteous attitude that was ruining my bike rides.

Charlie
I thought self-righteousness was a requirement of being a cyclist.
 
Old 06-01-13, 06:55 AM
  #40  
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lol so true Neil but its a glove that fits me too well
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Old 06-01-13, 08:46 AM
  #41  
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The MUPs I usually ride on say for everyone to stay right. That being said...I hate the damn earphones. I try to be a good cyclist and call out "on your left!" like ALC has taught me, but when I know said runner can't hear me it pisses me off.


That and people who think its cute to let their kids take up the whole trail...
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Old 06-01-13, 09:00 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by JakiChan View Post
The MUPs I usually ride on say for everyone to stay right. That being said...I hate the damn earphones. I try to be a good cyclist and call out "on your left!" like ALC has taught me, but when I know said runner can't hear me it pisses me off.
Here's a secret: pedestrians don't understand "on your left". Only bicyclists seem to know what "on your left" means. Pedestrians will often move left, into your path, if you say "on your left".

If you want a pedestrian to move aside, say "Behind you!". I've found that works far better than anything else I've tried.

If someone moves aside for me, I always say "Thanks" as I pass them.
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Old 06-01-13, 09:38 AM
  #43  
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I think I'm just gonna get a fred-style bell cuz its emotionally neutral and much easier than saying anything.

Charlie
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Old 06-01-13, 09:38 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
Here's a secret: pedestrians don't understand "on your left". Only bicyclists seem to know what "on your left" means. Pedestrians will often move left, into your path, if you say "on your left".

If you want a pedestrian to move aside, say "Behind you!". I've found that works far better than anything else I've tried.

If someone moves aside for me, I always say "Thanks" as I pass them.
Hmm. I'll try that on Sunday. Thanks!
 
Old 06-01-13, 10:45 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by JakiChan View Post
The MUPs I usually ride on say for everyone to stay right. That being said...I hate the damn earphones. I try to be a good cyclist and call out "on your left!" like ALC has taught me, but when I know said runner can't hear me it pisses me off.


That and people who think its cute to let their kids take up the whole trail...
+1 to the kids, or dogs left to run back and forth across the trail and chase cyclists.

iZombies who seem to think that because they can't hear anything except their music it's for everyone else to avoid them. Bonus marks for changing direction suddenly without any warning or even checking nobody is coming up behind.

Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
Here's a secret: pedestrians don't understand "on your left". Only bicyclists seem to know what "on your left" means. Pedestrians will often move left, into your path, if you say "on your left".

If you want a pedestrian to move aside, say "Behind you!". I've found that works far better than anything else I've tried.

If someone moves aside for me, I always say "Thanks" as I pass them.
I found that too, I never wanted to call "on your right" (it's all the other way around in the UK) in case they moved right as I passed. "Behind you" or "Excuse me" makes it clear you're there and they usually look, then pick a direction. Sometimes a group will scatter in all directions making it no easier to get past but at least they tried, and if I want to go fast enough that it matters I use the road.
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Old 06-01-13, 11:24 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by mattgmann View Post
There is a lady I've encountered recently who has taken it upon herself to police a stretch of a local MUP. I'm not sure what her sense of duty is, but she gave me an ear full the other day for not signalling when I passed a jogger who was wearing headphones. (for reference, I generally announce myself, and I'm not a particularly quick rider). I'm sure she thinks she's doing good, but I'm going to buzz the tower this afternoon if she's in her spot.
I hate that more than I do out of touch pedestrians. I'd be tempted to stop, and really lose my biking calm. I know we all get annoyed by what we see as people not doing as they should, but at some point you gotta live and let live. I mean hey, I think its wrong to eat ketchup on a hot dog, but you don't see me at a hot dog stand with a whistle harassing everyone who's using tomato based condiments on their sausage.
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Old 06-01-13, 11:41 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
Here's a secret: pedestrians don't understand "on your left". Only bicyclists seem to know what "on your left" means. Pedestrians will often move left, into your path, if you say "on your left".

If you want a pedestrian to move aside, say "Behind you!". I've found that works far better than anything else I've tried.

If someone moves aside for me, I always say "Thanks" as I pass them.
Good suggestion. Bells work too...most times that is.
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Old 06-01-13, 12:31 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by sstorkel View Post
Here's a secret: pedestrians don't understand "on your left". Only bicyclists seem to know what "on your left" means.
I agree. As someone who is new to cycling, I can tell you that in my pedestrian days, if someone had come up behind me calling out, "On your left!", I would look around (or stop in my tracks), startled, and think, "Huh? What did I do? Why is that person yelling at me?"

So I have a bell. I haven't been in a situation where I've had to use it for anything other than to amuse myself, since my cycling thus far has been confined to various parking lots and roads within a couple miles of home. But I think a bell has a pretty universal meaning!
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Old 06-01-13, 12:55 PM
  #49  
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I had one of my best laughs when I got my current bike, I am talking with the salesmen, yea I am familiar with sti shifters ect, but WTF is that thing? He is like its a bell, almost soaked myself on that one. I kept it on the bike just moved it out of the way under stem and above head tube. I still call out cause I cant get over my own views with the bell, (wife loves teasing me about it, yet has a Giant penguin squeeze horn mounted on her handlebars) but I get dry mouth a lot and honestly it would be easier, and someday I may actually use it.
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Old 06-01-13, 01:34 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by jazzgeek79 View Post
I hate that more than I do out of touch pedestrians. I'd be tempted to stop, and really lose my biking calm. I know we all get annoyed by what we see as people not doing as they should, but at some point you gotta live and let live. I mean hey, I think its wrong to eat ketchup on a hot dog, but you don't see me at a hot dog stand with a whistle harassing everyone who's using tomato based condiments on their sausage.
You from Chicago originally? Because the only people who won't put ketchup on a hot dog are from around here.


On topic: What do you all do when coming down hills and people are in the way? Like all over the path?
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