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Heart Rate Monitors and Long Slow Distance.

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Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) Looking to lose that spare tire? Ideal weight 200+? Frustrated being a large cyclist in a sport geared for the ultra-light? Learn about the bikes and parts that can take the abuse of a heavier cyclist, how to keep your body going while losing the weight, and get support from others who've been successful.

Heart Rate Monitors and Long Slow Distance.

Old 07-30-14, 02:51 PM
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Thanks.
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Old 07-30-14, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Willbird
I have had two stress tests, but the last one was over ten years ago. My dad passed away at a young age (46) from a heart attack (he smoked) and it always worried me. Might be nice to do another one to see what they get for a maximum reading :-).
Willbird we have something in common as I lost my mother when she was 55 with heart related issues. So I keep up with my yearly check ups. Nice to be safe
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Old 07-30-14, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Black wallnut
Who is giving medical advice? You seem to have much more faith in your Dr. than I have in mine, however I greatly respect mine. She is not an expert in athletic training which for me is what cycling is. My goals include better health but also increased athletic performance as measured on on the road climbing hills or faster times over set courses (segments on Strava) plus how I do on race day during cx season. Weight loss makes me faster while also making me feel better, look better. Yeah I had a stress test once. It did not include finding the limits of my heart rather that I had a healthy heart. I was not much of a cyclist at the time, if at all.

Bill you might also want to add once a week or so an all out effort for 30-40 minutes or maybe not. If you do over time increase the duration as your fitness improves.

I also am not bored when I do base building miles at slow speeds. I do know I will not be able to do it for a month straight without some hard efforts.
I have a lot of faith in my doctor who happens to be a sports cardo specialist as well as one heck of a sea kayaker and runner. He showed new or took me to my limits during my stress test and set my heart rate limits. Once I drop the weight and get myself in shape who knows the doc could very well raise my rate limits. Might as well do it safe than take chances.
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Old 07-31-14, 08:44 AM
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Maximum HR isn't a terribly important number. It varies from person to person and has little or nothing to do with how fit you are. In my own case, I'm 59 and still see numbers in the low 180s when trying to keep up with the kids on the hills.

A more useful number for training purposes is your LTHR (lactate threshold heart rate) which is, broadly speaking, the highest level of effort you can sustain. Above it you start to redline quite quickly and have to back off. You can test for it by warming up, then going as hard as you can maintain for 30 minutes and take your average HR for the last 20 minutes of that half-hour. That will be a reasonable approximation of your threshold.

Then set your training zones on that basis. Z1 65% - 80% LTHR. Z2 81% - 88%. Z3 89% - 93%. Z4 94% - 99%. Z5 >100%.

Use Z1 for recovery rides. Most of your training should be in Z2, especially when building a base. The top of Z2, shading into Z3, probably gives you the biggest bang for your buck in terms of building aerobic capacity. Inserting some lengthy intervals in Z4 will tend to push your threshold up, and if you want to get adventurous try some "over/under" intervals - 2minutes in Z4 followed immediately by 2 minutes in Z5, repeated three times for a twelve minute interval session. Warm up first and warm down afterwards, and don't do this every day.

Retest for LTHR every month or so. You'll find it creeps up over time, so you need to recalculate your zones.

FWIW, my LTHR is currently 162. And when I was still racing, last year, my average HR in most races was around that figure, usually peaking in the high 170s and dropping into the 150s between surges. Which is exactly what one would expect.

Last edited by chasm54; 07-31-14 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 07-31-14, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by chasm54
Maximum HR isn't a terribly important number. It varies from person to person and has little or nothing to do with how fit you are. In my own case, I'm 59 and still see numbers in the low 180s when trying to keep up with the kids on the hills.

A more useful number for training purposes is your LTHR (lactate threshold heart rate) which is, broadly speaking, the highest level of effort you can sustain. Above it you start to redline quite quickly and have to back off. You can test for it by warming up, then going as hard as you can maintain for 30 minutes and take your average HR for the last 20 minutes of that half-hour. That will be a reasonable approximation of your threshold.

Then set your training zones on that basis. Z1 65% - 80% LTHR. Z2 81% - 88%. Z3 89% - 93%. Z4 94% - 99%. Z5 >100%.

Use Z1 for recovery rides. Most of your training should be in Z2, especially when building a base. The top of Z2, shading into Z3, probably gives you the biggest bang for your buck in terms of building aerobic capacity. Inserting some lengthy intervals in Z4 will tend to push your threshold up, and if you want to get adventurous try some "over/under" intervals - 2minutes in Z4 followed immediately by 2 minutes in Z5, repeated three times for a twelve minute interval session. Warm up first and warm down afterwards, and don't do this every day.

Retest for LTHR every month or so. You'll find it creeps up over time, so you need to recalculate your zones.

FWIW, my LTHR is currently 162. And when I was still racing, last year, my average HR in most races was around that figure, usually peaking in the high 170s and dropping into the 150s between surges. Which is exactly what one would expect.
That is all interesting info, and actually not what I expected, some folks were talking about data from TDF riders that showed their heart rate at something super low like 120.

I "kinda" know where they threshhold is in a general way, but do fully intend to find and quantify it a little bit better.

My natural ride pattern so far has been to flirt with the upper edge of that LTHR.....but maybe taking it easier on declines....having he HRM to keep me honest has helped me raise average speed, and may in time allow me to learn how to approach, crest, and sustain past a hill more efficiently....it is no good to carry velocity onto it, shred it, then burn out on the flat up on top.

And again at the end of the day it is about enjoyment of the workout, the activity, and getting better and stronger....deep into my 49th year alive age will start to steal from me at some point :-). I was able to average 17.3mph today on a 15 minute pretty much full throttle burn :-). Need to get some good portions of my explored rides selected for that kind of stuff :-). Adding structure to the exertion makes route selection "different".

Bill
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Old 07-31-14, 10:32 AM
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I did my first ride using my Tickr. I had Wahoo app open on my iPhone while I rode. I did 40 minutes and was surprised that it only took about 8% battery. I did dim the screen.
I confirmed that I have been riding more in zone 3 than in zone 2.
I am going to continue to build a base for a couple of weeks then add some intervals.
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Old 07-31-14, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Willbird
That is all interesting info, and actually not what I expected, some folks were talking about data from TDF riders that showed their heart rate at something super low like 120.
A TdF rider hiding away in the middle of the peloton can ride most of a flat stage in his recovery zone. I, on the other hand, was an ordinary mortal racing crits and shortish road races. Nobody rides crits in their recovery zone, they're hammerfests. And TdF riders spend plenty of time at high intensity when they're training, trust me.

I "kinda" know where they threshhold is in a general way, but do fully intend to find and quantify it a little bit better.
Do. If you want to train using HR in any structured way, it's an important number. And one of the important thing about using a HRM is to make sure you keep your HR down. Too much time at high intensity will just fatigue you and prevent you making as much progress as you might. Which brings me to...

My natural ride pattern so far has been to flirt with the upper edge of that LTHR.....but maybe taking it easier on declines....having he HRM to keep me honest has helped me raise average speed, and may in time allow me to learn how to approach, crest, and sustain past a hill more efficiently....it is no good to carry velocity onto it, shred it, then burn out on the flat up on top.
You shouldn't spend all your time at threshold. Intensity is essential, but going hard all the time is a recipe for burnout. To build fitness you need a mix of long steady rides and shorter intense interval sessions. A hilly ride where you take it easy most of the time but go hard on the climbs is a good way of mixing it up.

And again at the end of the day it is about enjoyment of the workout, the activity, and getting better and stronger....deep into my 49th year alive age will start to steal from me at some point :-). I was able to average 17.3mph today on a 15 minute pretty much full throttle burn :-). Need to get some good portions of my explored rides selected for that kind of stuff :-). Adding structure to the exertion makes route selection "different".

Bill
Don't set too much store by average speeds. Terrain and road conditions vary too much to make them a reliable guide unless you do the same route over and over again. It's a good idea to train on the basis of time and intensity. However, you're absolutely right about enjoying the workout. That's what keeps you coming back.
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Old 07-31-14, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by chasm54
A TdF rider hiding away in the middle of the peloton can ride most of a flat stage in his recovery zone. I, on the other hand, was an ordinary mortal racing crits and shortish road races. Nobody rides crits in their recovery zone, they're hammerfests. And TdF riders spend plenty of time at high intensity when they're training, trust me.



Do. If you want to train using HR in any structured way, it's an important number. And one of the important thing about using a HRM is to make sure you keep your HR down. Too much time at high intensity will just fatigue you and prevent you making as much progress as you might. Which brings me to...



You shouldn't spend all your time at threshold. Intensity is essential, but going hard all the time is a recipe for burnout. To build fitness you need a mix of long steady rides and shorter intense interval sessions. A hilly ride where you take it easy most of the time but go hard on the climbs is a good way of mixing it up.



Don't set too much store by average speeds. Terrain and road conditions vary too much to make them a reliable guide unless you do the same route over and over again. It's a good idea to train on the basis of time and intensity. However, you're absolutely right about enjoying the workout. That's what keeps you coming back.
Agreed average speed is not a super good quantifier :-). BUT average speed on a ride you repeat a lot, and now and then push to set a personal best for ME anyway is a good way to assure myself that I have indeed gotten stronger, faster, lighter :-).

I think I can go back to any of the rides I have "discovered" that start and end at my back door and do rerun say once a month and see progress :-).

The HRM I think will be a great tool, and yes to learn to take it easy when that is the game plan for the day :-).

Bill

Bill
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