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Clyde Tubeless Wheelset with an emphasis on comfort

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Clyde Tubeless Wheelset with an emphasis on comfort

Old 01-27-15, 06:40 PM
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adefeatedman
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Clyde Tubeless Wheelset with an emphasis on comfort

Hello all:

I have a 2012 Giant Defy 1 that has treated me very well since I got it nearly 3 years ago. I weigh about 230lbs and am looking for a wheelset that can support a decently strong rider at that weight, but won't be too stiff. After doing some research, I'm confident that I want to switch to road tubeless. The road buzz and impacts from potholes in my area really fatigue me. I just switched from 23c to 25c tires which helped a lot, but I'm ready to go 28c tubeless to make this puppy ride like a Cadillac.

Now, I can source a set of Ultegra 6800s for a reasonable price which push many of the right buttons. They are tubeless ready, are wider than my current Ksyrium Elites, and can handle the weight (I'm told). However, I'm worried about the low spoke count (16h front/20h rear) and it might just be too stiff from what I'm reading. Alternatively, I was thinking of picking up a set of H Plus Son Archetypes laced 32h to Ultegra hubs from Velomine. Very reasonably priced and, although it isn't tubeless ready, I'm reading will easily support tubeless tires for my application.

Essentially my question is this: will an off the shelf Ultegra 6800 wheelset with its low spoke count be unsuitable, or create a harsher ride, than a higher spoke custom built wheelset?

Thanks in advance.

-Jake
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Old 01-27-15, 08:06 PM
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230# isn't all that much, about 30-40#'s less than me. But, it may still be a bit much for 16/20 spokes. I personally haven't had the greatest luck w/low spoke count wheels, even though they were 24/28's (not Shimano).

That being said, I have heard good things about Shimano wheels. Of course, $400-500 (I'm assuming) is a bit much for an experiment.

Sorry I couldn't give you much more practical advice. If me, I probably wouldn't go for them.
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Old 01-27-15, 09:11 PM
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So I was in the market for the same wheels as you last month. I went with these. DT Swiss R460 tubeless rims on Ultegra hubs, 32h 3 cross with DT competition spokes and brass nipples. Hutchinson tubeless but 23 mm because they're the only size that fit my frame otherwise I would have gone with Intensives. They were built by QBP (the distributor) in MN, so your LBS can likely order and have wheels built for you to your specifications if they deal with QBP. Another idea for you. Good luck. I weigh about 235 right now.

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Old 01-27-15, 09:29 PM
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The American Classic Hurricane Tubeless wheel sets are very similar to Silvercivic's R460 build, but I think a bit lighter, as the Hurricane rims are 60gm less apiece. You could probably make that up in hub spec, if it's at all important even, but I just wanted to mention it as an alternative. You can find them for about $720.
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Old 01-27-15, 09:49 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions. I'd preferably like to keep the cost closer to $500 or less. I'm getting married this year and need to pinch pennies wherever I can. I'll have to see if I can get those DT Swiss rims built up for around that price point.

Is it safe to say the off the shelf Ultegras are less than ideal?
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Old 01-27-15, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by adefeatedman View Post
Thanks for the suggestions. I'd preferably like to keep the cost closer to $500 or less. I'm getting married this year and need to pinch pennies wherever I can. I'll have to see if I can get those DT Swiss rims built up for around that price point.

Is it safe to say the off the shelf Ultegras are less than ideal?
I wouldn't say that, I just wanted a very strong, reliable wheel for training and this seemed like a good, relatively cheap solution although the wheels were > $500 when it was all said and done, but also <$720.
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Old 01-27-15, 10:20 PM
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I go about 215 and race two sets of Ultegra tubeless 10 speed (6700?) in cyclocross.
The rears just don't stay true.
CX is much different than road riding.
I bought my wheels used, with unknown previous use; but they appeared to be lightly used.
I really need to get them properly trued with tension by someone who knows what they are doing.
I would go with a higher spoke count than Ultegras.
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Old 01-27-15, 10:37 PM
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if you're going custom, get the Stans Alpha 400s....they did bring tubeless to the front market after all. A cheaper option would be A23's and I think velomine carries a sets

Those ultegra wheelset might work but heard its pita to get the spokes or something along those lines if they snap.

Also keep in mind, almost every tubeless tire is $75-120 each. Plus another $30 in tape and sealant. You can however run tubes and normal tires until you get the extra $200 to convert them. When I had mine tubeless, I had ZERO issues for 2500+ miles before I started using a different wheelset. Now I'm back on the Alpha 400's 20/24 config currently w/ tubes so I can run colored tires
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Old 01-28-15, 04:59 AM
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If conversions are on the table (and I guess aside from ease-of-use, why not?) there are options in alu/carbon factory direct wheelsets, like Yoeleo, where you could net a 24/28h, 23mm wide, 38mm deep wheel for sub $580 delivered.

I've no direct experience, but have a friend on them (admittedly lightweight) and have heard good things around the Road forum, so may be worth a look.

700C Carbon Alloy Clincher Wheelset 38MM Yoeleo
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Old 01-28-15, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jsigone View Post
if you're going custom, get the Stans Alpha 400s
+1. I have them built around Chis King hubs, which hubs are not for the budget conscious. Just remove the ugly decals from the rims.
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Old 01-28-15, 10:30 AM
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Where are you feeling the road, in your hands or in your seat?

I ask because this solved my road pains in my seat on my aluminum bike more than any wheels or tires would:

Specialized Bicycle Components

It's a very noticeable difference on the first ride.
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Old 01-28-15, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
If conversions are on the table (and I guess aside from ease-of-use, why not?) there are options in alu/carbon factory direct wheelsets, like Yoeleo, where you could net a 24/28h, 23mm wide, 38mm deep wheel for sub $580 delivered.

I've no direct experience, but have a friend on them (admittedly lightweight) and have heard good things around the Road forum, so may be worth a look.

700C Carbon Alloy Clincher Wheelset 38MM Yoeleo
I don't think 38mm alum rims will fall under the comfy ride level. I'd imagine them stiff and stiff. Great for going fast n racing, not so much for the softer road feel. Great price point for racing too if the weight isn't over 1700 grams too (couldn't find total weight). Easier to curb a $600 wheelset versus $2k.
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Old 01-28-15, 12:38 PM
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Thanks, guys. I read up on some of the suggestions and the Stan's Alpha 400 seems like a good suggestion that fit well into the price range. I keep reading that the A23 is a little more geared towards being lightweight. Not sure if that would help for comfort, but it doesn't sound like it would hold up well underneath me.

Most of what I'm feeling seems to be sharp jostles from bumps and cracks in the roads. It gives me a soreness in my arms and shoulders that I'm hoping will be solved by the lower air pressures in a wider, tubeless setup. I added gel inserts under the tape which was also a huge help. I've got a carbon seatpost and fork already, and to be honest, it seems my bike is already pretty compliant in the rear. It just seems like it's really stiff in the front.

Should I pull the trigger on this: Shimano Ultegra, Stan's ZTR Alpha 400 - Wheelset | The Colorado Cyclist
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Old 01-28-15, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by adefeatedman View Post
Thanks, guys. I read up on some of the suggestions and the Stan's Alpha 400 seems like a good suggestion that fit well into the price range. I keep reading that the A23 is a little more geared towards being lightweight. Not sure if that would help for comfort, but it doesn't sound like it would hold up well underneath me.
Velocity A23s should work fine for a 230b guy, as long as you go with 32 spokes or above. Velomine sell them for $250 with Ultegra, not hand built though.

I've been running Velomine bought 36 spoke Deep-Vs (bought when I weighed about 280lbs) FYI, they've been great for 2000 miles.
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Old 01-28-15, 01:08 PM
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I'm okay with that just so long as they are true and can survive the rough roads of Northern New Jersey. $200+ price difference is substantial enough to sway me if it's recommended.
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Old 01-28-15, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by adefeatedman View Post
I'm okay with that just so long as they are true and can survive the rough roads of Northern New Jersey. $200+ price difference is substantial enough to sway me if it's recommended.
I can't really recommend them, as I haven't used the A23s, only the Deep-Vs (which are stronger and stiffer). However, I can recommend Velomine's service, and from this page:

Velocity A23 Black Shimano 105 5700 32 Hole Hubs Wheelset [73219] - $189.00 Velomine.com : Worldwide Bicycle Shop, fixed gear track bike wheelsets campagnolo super record vintage bike

they do list the wheelset as "Very Strong Wheelset for Heavier Riders above 190lbs. If you are tired of cracking rims and breaking spokes, this wheelset is for you."

I'm actually thinking about getting a set myself for my cross bike, and moving the Deep-Vs on the road bike I'm in the middle of building right now.
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Old 01-28-15, 02:26 PM
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Alpha 400s are the classic 19mm rim profile and bit deeper. The A23s are 23mm wider, allowing the tires to open up more at the bead. Giving more volume to the case size. Add tubeless feature they added a couple yrs ago (1st A23 were not tubeless). And you get MORE volume PLUS tubless. The rim profile is much shorter, and that takes away a bit from the rim stiffness and strength out of the saddle, so more spokes than a Deep V is what I'd suggest. You should be fine on 32/32 A23s. And I would buy them from Velomine, you can't even get the parts for the cost from velomine + you still have to factor in labor if DIY. + they are super fast at shipping orders so that is always a very good thing.

I'd get them laced to ultegra hubs for $250. Still leaves you plenty left in the budget for 28C tires, sealant, stans yellow tape, valve stems
@expatbrit runs them tubeless I think, maybe he can chime in for a quick say on them
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Old 01-28-15, 02:44 PM
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Yes, Velomine are excellent. My low spoke wheelset exploded under me on a Tuesday night, and I was doing a metric century on Saturday, they got me a new wheelset at my house on Thursday, with standard shipping. Also if someone with the username "expatbrit" likes them, that's OK by me (also an ex-pat Brit).
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Old 01-28-15, 06:39 PM
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Hahaha thanks. I guess it's settled then. Any issue with the Ultegra 6800 hubs being that I'm running 10 speed 105 group? Is the Ultegra hubs even worth the $60 premium? The Ultegras still fit well in the budget, but just figured I'd ask.

Also, the plan is Hutchinson Sector 28 tires with Stans tape and valves and Orangeseal sealant.
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Old 01-28-15, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jsigone View Post
Alpha 400s are the classic 19mm rim profile and bit deeper. The A23s are 23mm wider, allowing the tires to open up more at the bead. Giving more volume to the case size. Add tubeless feature they added a couple yrs ago (1st A23 were not tubeless). And you get MORE volume PLUS tubless. The rim profile is much shorter, and that takes away a bit from the rim stiffness and strength out of the saddle, so more spokes than a Deep V is what I'd suggest. You should be fine on 32/32 A23s. And I would buy them from Velomine, you can't even get the parts for the cost from velomine + you still have to factor in labor if DIY. + they are super fast at shipping orders so that is always a very good thing.

I'd get them laced to ultegra hubs for $250. Still leaves you plenty left in the budget for 28C tires, sealant, stans yellow tape, valve stems
@expatbrit runs them tubeless I think, maybe he can chime in for a quick say on them
Actually, I'm running the (wider) disk specific Ailerons, 28 spoke, on White Industries CLD hubs now, built by Southern Wheelworks.. I never got the A23s set up tubeless, though I did run them with 28mm tyres until I switched the wheels for my 'going hydro plan' last July. They're deeper than the A23 and stiffer and I'm running Schwalbe One tubeless on them. I do intend (at some point) to get the A23s laced to some 11-speed hub, but that's a project for when I have money again. I'd like to use the CLDs, but they're significantly more.

I'm not a great judge of comfort though -- I'm too stupid to figure it out. I did a 6,500' of climbing century on the A23s though, and it was good. The X-fire isn't renowned for being a comfort bike, either, and I'm on the stock Prologo Zero II saddle.



The only issue I have with the Ailerons is
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Old 01-28-15, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dr_lha View Post
Yes, Velomine are excellent. My low spoke wheelset exploded under me on a Tuesday night, and I was doing a metric century on Saturday, they got me a new wheelset at my house on Thursday, with standard shipping. Also if someone with the username "expatbrit" likes them, that's OK by me (also an ex-pat Brit).
*grin*. It's a good username.
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Old 01-28-15, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jsigone View Post
if you're going custom, get the Stans Alpha 400s....they did bring tubeless to the front market after all. A cheaper option would be A23's and I think velomine carries a sets

Those ultegra wheelset might work but heard its pita to get the spokes or something along those lines if they snap.

Also keep in mind, almost every tubeless tire is $75-120 each. Plus another $30 in tape and sealant. You can however run tubes and normal tires until you get the extra $200 to convert them. When I had mine tubeless, I had ZERO issues for 2500+ miles before I started using a different wheelset. Now I'm back on the Alpha 400's 20/24 config currently w/ tubes so I can run colored tires
My biggest issue with my (current) tubeless setup is remounting the tyres without replacing the tape. I had the Specialized Roubaix 25/23, but they were getting pretty cut up. I'm also a bit lighter, at 198 or so these days. (Bloody Xmas drinking..)
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Old 01-29-15, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by adefeatedman View Post
Hahaha thanks. I guess it's settled then. Any issue with the Ultegra 6800 hubs being that I'm running 10 speed 105 group? Is the Ultegra hubs even worth the $60 premium? The Ultegras still fit well in the budget, but just figured I'd ask.
You'll need to use an additional spacer to use a 10 speed cassette, which comes with the Wheelset. Some argue that 11 speed wheels aren't as strong as 10 speed as the hub is wider. Ultegra hubs are lighter, and if you decide to go 11 speed in the future, more future proof.

I have the 6800s on my deep-v wheels, seems good to me. I'm moving the wheels onto an 11 speed new bike, so the extra money was a good investment for me.
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Old 01-29-15, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by adefeatedman View Post
It just seems like it's really stiff in the front.
How many spokes and what lacing pattern do you have in the front one the wheels that are uncomfortable?
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Old 01-29-15, 01:17 PM
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Jarrett: I'm on plain Ksyrium Elites which I think is 20 spoke radial up front. There was definitely a noticeable difference with them in harshness going from stock wheels (which cracked in a pothole). I'm trying to sell the Ksyriums right now for that reason.

dr_lha: Good point on the 6800s being 11 speed compatible. I don't think I'll ever change the group on this bike to 11 speed, but its probably worth the small investment for the piece of mind and marketability if I ever want to sell.
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