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I'd be surprised if Minneapolis is 40% for transportation bicycling. My guess is maybe 25-30% (1 woman to ever 2 or 3 guys). Recreational riding may be 40% based on what I'd see on trails and the greenway. There was a count last year on the bridges in to Manhattan by gender and I believe it was about 15% female. Citibike had said that 24% of trips in 2014 were by women.
Netherlands is about 55% women for all trips or slightly more than gender parity. Germany, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark are about 45% or slightly under gender parity. Keep in mind as well that commuting is low on the bicycling scale for all of these countries with trips for eating, school, and shopping making up the majority of trips. The Netherlands also has age parity while other European countries are mostly 14 to 55 year olds. |
Re: tinkering with gear
Not all women hate gear. I do not like to build stuff but spent most of my life tech obsessed. I have now toned it down some. I no longer need the latest and greatest, but I want to have something "nice" when I get it. If our goal is for women to do "everyday bicycling" why is it so freaking hard to find a bike equipped with the "every day necessities?" I just got a new bike. It is nearly done, there are few final details to work out. Going to bike stores wasn't that great because since my needs were not "sport or recreation" I was steered to "multi purpose hybrids" that did not ride well, didn't solve my concerns or match my style. I ended up doing a semi-custom build since what was in the shops was not right. And I am no bike expert, but it was the best choice to meet my needs and wants. Where are the women on bikes? It is complicated. Some women do not ride because they do not think they are fit enough. Others are worried about looking polished. Others fear maintenance. Some feel like the streets are unsafe: from cars and the general public. Some people feel too "exposed." Some do not think it fits in their life: too much to carry. Many of these obstacles are solvable if we pay attention. |
Rates of women conmuters
I live in Oakland, this is old data but we are at roughly 50% in 2012. This matches closely to what I witness on the streets, particularly in my hood. (Nice chart in there)
Cyclelicious » Bay Area bike commuters transportation mode share and gender split for 2012 |
Tinkering with gear is another big difference in the U.S. and elsewhere. The majority of bicycle riders in northern Europe aren't 'cyclists'. They're not in to gear or tinkering. They don't have computers or gobs of lights on their bikes. They're not too concerned with weight. Their bicycles are for transportation.
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This lady friend of mine just got a sweet carbon bike for a century ride. When the weather gets more to her liking and an opening comes in her busy schedule we are going to take a spin around town. I plan to show her my list of tips and tricks for dealing with the maniac drivers and such. Then, i may even show her how to transform into a bike commuter, since her workplace is really not that far and extremely straightforward. We'll see what happens! :D
- Andy |
Originally Posted by CrankyOne
(Post 17767051)
Tinkering with gear is another big difference in the U.S. and elsewhere. The majority of bicycle riders in northern Europe aren't 'cyclists'. They're not in to gear or tinkering. They don't have computers or gobs of lights on their bikes. They're not too concerned with weight. Their bicycles are for transportation.
|
Originally Posted by CrankyOne
(Post 17767051)
Tinkering with gear is another big difference in the U.S. and elsewhere. The majority of bicycle riders in northern Europe aren't 'cyclists'. They're not in to gear or tinkering. They don't have computers or gobs of lights on their bikes. They're not too concerned with weight. Their bicycles are for transportation.
There's even sources such as Startpagina that rival mega retailers like Niagara. How about a seat post that also functions as a air pump with retractable hose? http://en.hollandbikeshop.com/bicycl...tegrated-pump/ |
Originally Posted by mcours2006
(Post 17766473)
I think men are fascinated with things that a lot of gear (no pun intended) and lends itself to a lot of tinkering around with said gear. It's part of our cavemen past when we would tinker with a piece of wood and stone to fashion some kind of tool. We are gearheads. Embrace it.
Women aren't into that. Never have been.
Originally Posted by RubeRad
(Post 17766514)
True, but I fear that by asserting a categorical difference between men and women, you're asking for a flame war...
Back to the topic of the thread: Here in Memphis I would say that about 30% of the riders I see on my commute are women. The city has gotten much, much more bike friendly in the past few years so I expect to see that number improve over the next year or two. |
Originally Posted by CrankyOne
(Post 17767051)
Tinkering with gear is another big difference in the U.S. and elsewhere. The majority of bicycle riders in northern Europe aren't 'cyclists'. They're not in to gear or tinkering. They don't have computers or gobs of lights on their bikes. They're not too concerned with weight. Their bicycles are for transportation.
|
Originally Posted by CrankyOne
(Post 17767051)
Tinkering with gear is another big difference in the U.S. and elsewhere. The majority of bicycle riders in northern Europe aren't 'cyclists'. They're not in to gear or tinkering. They don't have computers or gobs of lights on their bikes. They're not too concerned with weight. Their bicycles are for transportation.
(and when brompton comes out with their ti-lugged carbon model with di2 ultegra disc -- i'm buying!!!) |
Originally Posted by Giant Doofus
(Post 17769684)
Not flaming, but I wouldn't say "women aren't into that." I love learning how to work on my own bike and am intensely curious about how it functions. I'm in a bike overhaul class at my local co-op right now. Of the ten students, six are women. I would say that girls don't usually get as much positive reinforcement to be curious about mechanical stuff as boys do, but that's changing. And there are a fair number of us who ride for a few years and then start getting curious about how the bike works. One challenge is that it's hard to find a place to learn how to wrench on your own bike. Bike shops are often dismissive of women customers (don't get me started on this one) and co-ops can have a really intense "dude culture" unless someone is being very intentional about creating a welcoming environment for everyone.
Back to the topic of the thread: Here in Memphis I would say that about 30% of the riders I see on my commute are women. The city has gotten much, much more bike friendly in the past few years so I expect to see that number improve over the next year or two.
Originally Posted by spare_wheel
(Post 17771007)
I agree about tinkering but not about weight. Folders are among the most popular commuting bikes in the world (esp in Asia but also in the UK) and one of the main reasons this style of bike is so popular is due to its portability. In fact, I personally view folders as approaching city bike perfection...
(and when brompton comes out with their ti-lugged carbon model with di2 ultegra disc -- i'm buying!!!) |
Pony up a few Tens of thousands and take over the Ultimate folding Bike Manufacturing concept , Len Rubin isn't doing anything with it..
The Forks and rear sections are already made in Ti. |
Originally Posted by Giant Doofus
(Post 17769684)
Not flaming, but I wouldn't say "women aren't into that." I love learning how to work on my own bike and am intensely curious about how it functions. I'm in a bike overhaul class at my local co-op right now. Of the ten students, six are women. I would say that girls don't usually get as much positive reinforcement to be curious about mechanical stuff as boys do, but that's changing. And there are a fair number of us who ride for a few years and then start getting curious about how the bike works. One challenge is that it's hard to find a place to learn how to wrench on your own bike. Bike shops are often dismissive of women customers (don't get me started on this one) and co-ops can have a really intense "dude culture" unless someone is being very intentional about creating a welcoming environment for everyone.
Back to the topic of the thread: Here in Memphis I would say that about 30% of the riders I see on my commute are women. The city has gotten much, much more bike friendly in the past few years so I expect to see that number improve over the next year or two. The bike overhaul class seems cool, I would like to find something like that. It would be great if mechanics would let you watch them while they worked on your bike and then maybe "supervise" you a bit while you wrench on your own bike. I am much more into gear compared to my husband. I want to lighten up my mountain bike with carbon wheels and 1x11 drivetrain instead of 2x10... He has an old steel mtb with 26" wheels that is half rusted and weighs 40lbs or so... At least 70-80% of the bike commuters I see are male. I see lots of moms shuttling kids around in SUV's and I suspect that is a big reason there are not more female commuters in my area. It is harder to get kids to school/daycare on a bike. I would like to have a kid and I think bike commuting will be tougher if/when that happens. |
Centuries of evolutionary biology and social conditioning has led men and women to have very different preferences when it comes to risk bearing and physical activity. Its not surprising that cycling is disproportionately male since it is both perceived as risky (for good reasons) and physically exertive. I understand that this is a cycling forum but if you take a step back and examine all the risky physical activities that we encounter in our daily lives (e.g. fixing a leaking roof) its not surprising that men are often called upon to fix the situation because we are conditioned (both evolutionary and socially) to be less risk averse than women. It all begins when our 4 year old son falls off his bike and we tell him to stop crying and get back on, but when our four year old daughter falls off we rush to cuddle her and tell her she doesn't have to try again until she's ready.
This isn't an endorsement of heteronormativity or gender roles but a simple explanation of why bike commuters tend to be predominately male. You'll also see this trend in any profession that includes physical activity and a large degree of personal risk taking (e.g. police, fire marshals, construction site workers, etc). |
There is a mindset. An independent mindset that some ladies have that stirs that curiosity. As an example, I would like to share an experience.
We have a daughter that works in S. Korea. A few years back she came home for a year. After arriving, she bought a car. She went to the store and brought back some accessories and bits she wanted to install. She took the parts, looked everything over, came and asked me for the tools (and I mean something like, "Can I get a ratchet with a 7/16" socket, a 1/2" wrench and a Phillips screwdriver?"). I gave her the tools and she went outside. She didn't ask for help and I didn't offer. Not because I didn't want to help her, but that she didn't want my help. She is accustomed to doing things for herself. She wants to do things for herself. She has taken herself around the world and toured Europe with very little help from home. Oh, she uses a bike for transportation in S.Korea, by the way. My point is that the more independant thinking ladies that are out there may, at some point, want to start tinkering on there own bikes. It adds to that independant feeling. And this proud papa is glad to see it. |
Originally Posted by yankeefan
(Post 17771885)
Centuries of evolutionary biology and social conditioning has led men and women to have very different preferences when it comes to risk bearing and physical activity. Its not surprising that cycling is disproportionately male since it is both perceived as risky (for good reasons) and physically exertive. I understand that this is a cycling forum but if you take a step back and examine all the risky physical activities that we encounter in our daily lives (e.g. fixing a leaking roof) its not surprising that men are often called upon to fix the situation because we are conditioned (both evolutionary and socially) to be less risk averse than women. It all begins when our 4 year old son falls off his bike and we tell him to stop crying and get back on, but when our four year old daughter falls off we rush to cuddle her and tell her she doesn't have to try again until she's ready.
This isn't an endorsement of heteronormativity or gender roles but a simple explanation of why bike commuters tend to be predominately male. You'll also see this trend in any profession that includes physical activity and a large degree of personal risk taking (e.g. police, fire marshals, construction site workers, etc). I do agree that boys and girls (along with men and women) tend to favor different activities. I'm not sure how much is nature vs nurture. Anyway, to try to categorize physical and risk taking activities as "male" is over simplifying. |
Originally Posted by trunolimit
(Post 17766440)
That brings up a good point. Why did cycling become a male dominated thing? I think it's because society puts a lot of pressure on women to be perfect and as we all know cycling leaves you sweaty and dirty.
I didn't miss the support it is just I feel sad that there is cause for celebrating something that should just be. I don't know if that makes sense. I'm sorry for raining on the parade. And yes, it is sad!
Originally Posted by mcours2006
(Post 17766473)
I think men are fascinated with things that a lot of gear (no pun intended) and lends itself to a lot of tinkering around with said gear. It's part of our cavemen past when we would tinker with a piece of wood and stone to fashion some kind of tool. We are gearheads. Embrace it.
Women aren't into that. Never have been. Interestingly enough there is a group of chimps using tools to hunt. It's a fairly new thing so they are watching it closely...and it's mostly the females using the tools.
Originally Posted by yankeefan
(Post 17771885)
Centuries of evolutionary biology and social conditioning has led men and women to have very different preferences when it comes to risk bearing and physical activity. Its not surprising that cycling is disproportionately male since it is both perceived as risky (for good reasons) and physically exertive. I understand that this is a cycling forum but if you take a step back and examine all the risky physical activities that we encounter in our daily lives (e.g. fixing a leaking roof) its not surprising that men are often called upon to fix the situation because we are conditioned (both evolutionary and socially) to be less risk averse than women. It all begins when our 4 year old son falls off his bike and we tell him to stop crying and get back on, but when our four year old daughter falls off we rush to cuddle her and tell her she doesn't have to try again until she's ready.
This isn't an endorsement of heteronormativity or gender roles but a simple explanation of why bike commuters tend to be predominately male. You'll also see this trend in any profession that includes physical activity and a large degree of personal risk taking (e.g. police, fire marshals, construction site workers, etc). We also steer girls away from that kind of work. In HS I wanted to design cars. I was talked out of it. My grandmother was told woman 'couldn't' do electrical and other tech work. The lady rewired her home up to code at 65. |
Originally Posted by katsrevenge
(Post 17772362)
That is cultural not biological. We have to tell that boy to 'man up' while at the same time teaching his sister to fear pain and risk. Poor guy learns to hide his emotions and the poor girl learns weakness. Shame, what we do to both girls and boys.
We also steer girls away from that kind of work. In HS I wanted to design cars. I was talked out of it. My grandmother was told woman 'couldn't' do electrical and other tech work. The lady rewired her home up to code at 65. What I didn't think about is his sister, who is 4 years younger. She wants to play with them and there is no arm twisting involved to get her to help. I would have never thought to buy them for her and I'm kicking myself for it. To me cycling is not a male dominated thing at all outside of perhaps the sports aspect of it. We weren't any softer on our daughter when it came to learning to ride or distance. In fact we were probably less soft on her because she was the 2nd child. With the first kid you're afraid they're going to die if they sleep the wrong way. By the second kid, you've figured out that they're pretty resilient. As far as girls being weak, fearful, or avoiding physical activity, I have to kind of laugh at that one. My son, who is 4 years older, wouldn't go down to the basement by himself unless he could get his sister to come with him. She was definitely the more fearless of the two, and again that may have partly to do with being a second child. And though both are active, she's also the more driven one and will push herself harder. Obviously our opinions are formed by our own experiences and perceptions. I know so many women athletes, including my wife, that the idea that women avoid activities that involve physical exertion is a pretty foreign concept to me. |
Times have changed...a lot of women are not afraid to challenge themselves by entering events such as, obstacle course races, tough mudder and Spartan races, all of these events are a lot more intense then bicycle commuting.
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My commute is pretty industrial and see mostly men. But in the cities around here I'd say 50 percent, if not more, is about right.
|
Originally Posted by Giant Doofus
(Post 17769684)
Not flaming, but I wouldn't say "women aren't into that." I love learning how to work on my own bike and am intensely curious about how it functions. I'm in a bike overhaul class at my local co-op right now. Of the ten students, six are women. I would say that girls don't usually get as much positive reinforcement to be curious about mechanical stuff as boys do, but that's changing. And there are a fair number of us who ride for a few years and then start getting curious about how the bike works. One challenge is that it's hard to find a place to learn how to wrench on your own bike. Bike shops are often dismissive of women customers (don't get me started on this one) and co-ops can have a really intense "dude culture" unless someone is being very intentional about creating a welcoming environment for everyone.
Back to the topic of the thread: Here in Memphis I would say that about 30% of the riders I see on my commute are women. The city has gotten much, much more bike friendly in the past few years so I expect to see that number improve over the next year or two. Honestly, the gender stereotypes need to end. My sister isn't super mechanically inclined but likes to know about stuff even if she doesn't do the work herself. An old (female) friend of mine put a supercharged mercedes V8 in an 01 plymouth neon, rebuilt the front end with a space frame to accommodate it, and altered the chassis of the neon to accept rear wheel drive and electronically shifted manual transmission with steering wheel shift buttons. On the outside it looked stock. Unlike a stock 01 neon, it could do 135 and power slides and all that. She also built racing stock cars and motorcycles from scratch. My one brother is not mechanically inclined at all, but me on the other hand.... well lets just say i can repair all most anything from a lawn mower to an iPhone. Not all guys "are into gear" either. Everyone has their own interests and skill sets. Women have been pushed away from being interested in mechanical & technological stuff by society. If you just want your bicycle to work, that's OK. If you wanna know how to build a frame and cut your own sprockets and whatnot, thats OK too, as is anything in between. High time we simply appreciated each other instead of trying to figure out which mental shoe box that person over there belongs in. /rant - Andy |
Originally Posted by tjspiel
(Post 17772811)
There is a lot that is cultural. I have to be careful with my daughter that I'm providing her the same learning experiences as my son. Take robotics as an example. My son loved legos and I lobbied my wife for a long time to get a set of Lego Mindstorms for him (and OK, for me too) but they are pretty expensive. So we did get them, but we waited too long. He now thinks of legos as "kids toys", though if I start to work on a robot, his curiosity will be piqued and he will want to help.
What I didn't think about is his sister, who is 4 years younger. She wants to play with them and there is no arm twisting involved to get her to help. I would have never thought to buy them for her and I'm kicking myself for it. To me cycling is not a male dominated thing at all outside of perhaps the sports aspect of it. We weren't any softer on our daughter when it came to learning to ride or distance. In fact we were probably less soft on her because she was the 2nd child. With the first kid you're afraid they're going to die if they sleep the wrong way. By the second kid, you've figured out that they're pretty resilient. As far as girls being weak, fearful, or avoiding physical activity, I have to kind of laugh at that one. My son, who is 4 years older, wouldn't go down to the basement by himself unless he could get his sister to come with him. She was definitely the more fearless of the two, and again that may have partly to do with being a second child. And though both are active, she's also the more driven one and will push herself harder. Obviously our opinions are formed by our own experiences and perceptions. I know so many women athletes, including my wife, that the idea that women avoid activities that involve physical exertion is a pretty foreign concept to me. littleBits: DIY Electronics For Prototyping and Learning It lets you create and program all sorts of electronics. If I had kids I would totally get them into programming and circuitry. |
I do not bike commute (it isn't necessarily more convenient unless I have a late meeting after work). I also didn't bike as an adult till I saw the Cycle Chic book. That helped to push me over the edge of bike-curious.
Here is why: This showed me I didn't have to alter my normal life to ride a bike. There were people in cute and polished, professional outfits riding a bike. Prior to that, people I saw riding were either in bike gear or bike optimized outfits that weren't my style. Or just really casual. My personal style is what I'll call a California version of Connecticut preppy work attire. I dress "up" most of the time, weekends included unless I am feeling really lazy. Those images "proved" the a bike could be compatible with my clothing style. It is shallow, but really important to me. I am "girly" in the sense I do not like to get my hands dirty. I do like to know and understand how stuff works and why things are designed the way they are. I know there are plenty of women like me, on the fence and not sure if biking suits their lifestyle. Like minded role models are critical! And more focus on non-commute trips. We tend to make it feel like the only way to do it is all or nothing. |
Originally Posted by mcours2006
(Post 17766473)
I think men are fascinated with things that a lot of gear (no pun intended) and lends itself to a lot of tinkering around with said gear. It's part of our cavemen past when we would tinker with a piece of wood and stone to fashion some kind of tool. We are gearheads. Embrace it.
Women aren't into that. Never have been. I bike commute all year, including winter. I built up a bike specifically for that purpose (drop bar mountain bike conversion), and hand built the wheels (dyno hub with drum brakes front and back). I'm glad there wasn't a guy around telling me I couldn't do that because I just wasn't meant for it. |
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