nstgc

I see a lot of threads about what tires to get, however not about combinations. So I thought I would join and ask on the subject. After recently moving from someplace that was a sort of dream as a carless commute (longest commute was 5 miles and relatively flat), I am looking to improve my ride.

My commute:
I compute about 10-13 miles per day over a combination of back roads and state highway in Northern Kentucky. The back roads don't have shoulders, and are pretty much clear of everything other than branches. On the highway, I stick to the shoulder which is rough asphalt with a loose scattering of medium gravel, the remains of tires, weird pieces of metal (large plates mostly), and fine road debris (small bits of glass, broken bits of trash).

What I've done:
I replaced the rear 35mm Kenda Happy Medium that came with my Cannondale Quick CX 4, lined with a My. Tuffy, with 32mm Conti. GatorSkin Hardshell. The ride quality is much better. I did, of course, change the type of tire. these are more appropriate now that I'm not riding across the campus quad. I am inclined to purchase a 28mm GatorSkin Hardshell for the front tire.

Me:
I'm about 160lb and tend to carry a loaded backpack with items such as groceries, books, lunch, water bottles, laptops, and whatever else I can bit in either my Jan Sport or Swiss Gear (depending on the circumstances). I figure, if I were to put the covered box back on, and load it up, my total weight wouldn't exceed 220lb

My question:
Working under the (possible false) assumption that the Hardshell has better over all puncture resistance, I would want to have a liner for some other, (presumably) speedier tire such as the Schwalbe Marathon Supreme, or add some heavy-duty tubes. All of these, I assume, would reduce rolling resistance.
What would be a good combination of tire, tube, and liner for decent puncture resistance (one or two a year), that would maximize speed. Also, I only thought of that Schwalbe. I'm open to other suggestions.

bmthom.gis

Sorry, can't offer any advice other than you probably don't need liners with the hardshell or a marathon supreme. I'm really enjoying my Panaracer Ribmo PTs, and I know people have great success with Panarcer Pasela PTs. I've run over a bunch of broken glass on mine with no problems. They are also way less expensive than Marathon Supremes (which was my #1 choice the last time I bought tires until I decided to see why a lot of people like Panaracers which are about 1/2 the cost). I operate under the impression that as long as the tire is puncture resistant, brand doesn't matter too much. OTOH, the tires on both of my road bikes are regular old tires and I have yet to flat (knock on wood) through numerous group rides and a few centuries.

RubeRad

I agree with bmthom.gis. I am a fan of Mr Tuffy's, I had good success with them in road tires, but now that I ride marathon supremes, I don't bother. The point of Tuffy or other liners is to move the cost of flat-resistance to a one-time cost in a reuseable liner, rather than to keep the cost in every tire you buy. I do enjoy my Supremes, I decided to splurge since I commute full-time and it's a lot cheaper than a year's worth of gas, but when they wear out (who knows when that will be -- 3000 miles and they still seem almost new!) I plan on replacing them with Schwalbe Hurricanes. A lot cheaper, still great for commuting, and better for occasional trail riding.

nstgc

My solution was to buy the Schwalbe, and then go from there.

chas58

Well, we all have our opinion, so I’ll give mine.
1) 28mm front and 32mm rear is a good combo. What I do is set them to the same PSI (say 85 for those tires, maybe a little less). The front tire caries 30% less weigh, so it needs less pressure than the rear. As normally a 28mm tire would need more pressure than a 32mm tire (95 vs 85), using 85psi on the front 28mm and rear 32mm ends up having the same “drop” or sidewall bulge on both tires.

My Fixed Gear commuter bike is a PITA to change tire on (wrenching, gear alignment), so I use a slime light weight tube in it for protection. I used to frown on this, but with all of the hype that “tubeless” road racing tires got, I decided why not use this with a tube. Probably weighs 50 grams, so no big loss there.
I did finally get a huge nail in the tire one day. I didn’t notice the problem until the next day when these tires, which never leak, felt a bit soft in the morning. In other words, it works.

Marathons are thick and heavy. Is that what you want? A hardshell and a slime tube is just about guaranteed to get you home with plenty of air.

For tire liners: I put one in a mountain bike tire, took it out on a 4 hour bike ride, (around 45psi) and it took 3 hours for the stiff tire liner to rub a hole into my inner tube. It literally caused a flat, and will continue to do so if there is any abrasion inside your wheel. I’m never using a tire liner again.

nstgc

My thought exactly. I was actually thinking 90 PSI, though. Bad idea?

I thought slime was only effective when the PSI is below 65. Is there a high PSI slime? I'm certainly not opposed to slime. I was considering putting on tubes with an extra 100g or more, so 50g is nothing.


The Supremes? I heard that the M+ had a feel akin to "riding through sand", but I heard that the Supremes are a nice ride. The GatorSkin Hardshell is 40g heavier. Is this false?



Wow. I've heard this happening. I'm luckily not such a person. In any case, I don't care for the idea of tire liners. It seems if I wanted a piece of plastic in my set up I'd get a Marathon Plus which has one built in. Still, I asked anyway.


Thank you, Chas for your reply.

RubeRad

Not all Marathons are thick and heavy, there's a range of 11 different models! At the top of the range, the Supremes are light (for their volume) and supple, but they are quite spendy.

I have read from others that experienced this as well, but I (and a I think a majority of other tire-liner users) have ridden (road and mountain) for years with no problems. I don't know what is the factor that causes some to get tires cut by sharp liner ends, and some not. Maybe thinner tubes? I am cheap so generally my tubes are not lightweight. Otherwise all I can say is, shop for a liner that has a tapered rather than square-cut end, follow manufacturer's installation instructions carefully, and hope for the best.

grolby

Putting a liner in a fast tire would be throwing your money away. You'll kill the rolling resistance benefits. Likewise flat-resistant tubes.

chas58

I go with what conti recommends on the sidewall. That is 85 for the 32mm, 95 for the 28mm right? That is the optimum, although going down by 15% isn’t really going to slow you down, expecially on the front wheel.
The tubes I have for my fixie are sold by slime. My guess is that it works just like a tubless tire. Schwalbe is going all in for tubeless race tires, and those will flat without slime. So I’m thinking they work as well at 30psi as 120psi
(Slime Self-Sealing Smart Lite Presta)

Yeah, with marathon’s I think you can find a version that is light and expensive, and puncture resistant. Like ruberad said, there are a lot to choose from. The kind with the thick blue liner in the tread isn’t going to be light or supple riding. The suprime should be comparable to fast conti tires - Schwalbe and Conti make great tires.

I just got a Conti Grand Prix 4 season for its good wear, supple ride (330 tpi) and good puncture resistance (double vectran). It is not as tough, stiff, or long lasting as a gatorskin, and not as supple smooth and fast as their race tire. It kinda splits the difference. That is my faster tire.
(28mm hardshell is 410g, 4 season is 280 g)

The Marathon Supreme also has a vectran puncture resistant belt, so its likely to have similar puncture resistance.

chas58

Well, it wasn't user error in my case. ;-) no product defect either.

In my experience, people sometimes get a slow leak and don't ever think it might be from the liner.

In my case, high speed, low pressure and light weight tubes all added up to create a failure. I think higher PSI and thicker tubes would help mitigate the problem. Still, sooner or later the chafing is likely to cause a problem, especially for people who ride hard.

RubeRad

Yeah, all three of those factors sound like they would contribute to the tube and liner squirming around in there.