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Dealing with sand in corners of commute?

Old 07-23-15, 10:03 PM
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Dealing with sand in corners of commute?

Semi new cyclist here.

I just took a nasty fall today due to some fine sand in the bike lane while rounding a corner, trying to keep up with traffic. The sand caused my front wheel to lose traction and I hit the deck pretty hard. What is y'all's technique for dealing with sand and other slippery conditions on road bikes, especially those with clip pedals/fixed gears?

Should I just unclip my foot from the inside pedal to catch myself if sand/water/oil makes my front wheel slide out like they do on dirtbikes(or some equivalent for those on fixies)? Are there tires that better handle sandy roads(like those hybrid mountain bike-esque tires?)?

I just want to prevent this type of accident from happening again any time soon. My bike is okay luckily, but I'm not. What is your slippery road accident avoidance?
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Old 07-23-15, 10:27 PM
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The best advice I can give is to always look as far ahead as you can. Failing that... How to Crash | Bicycling
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Old 07-23-15, 11:03 PM
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1. Watch out for it
2. Don't hit it
3. Never prioritize keeping up with traffic over watching for bad stuff like sand on the road

There's just really not way to deal with sand other than avoiding it. You can also try not turning if you're hitting it (the wheel turning makes it worse). I don't usually try to brake beyond lightly braking either.

But it's just a hazard no bike can handle, until you get into fat bike (like a 4" fat tire) tire sizes.

Last edited by PaulRivers; 07-24-15 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 07-23-15, 11:12 PM
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Depending on your speed, sticking your leg out to catch yourself might lead to a leg injury.
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Old 07-23-15, 11:20 PM
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I have spent much time riding on beach sand over smooth concrete. It is like little ball bearings, and deserves much respect. Practice is your best defense; learn its limits and behavior in a safe place with elbow and knee pads to gain confidence and speed.

On the technique side, I scan ahead for potential problem spots, slow and try to coast through as straight and smoothly as possible, turning more sharply before and after, where the surface is clean.

On the equipment side, I use 42mm tires with a file tread pattern (often worn smooth) at lower pressures. Knobies don't seem to grip any better, but just have poor grip on pavement all the time. The sand only can take so much shear force before it slides and rolls like ball bearings. If you engage twice as much sand with a larger contact patch, you get at least twice as much grip, and the transition to slipping is much slower.
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Old 07-23-15, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by striknein
The best advice I can give is to always look as far ahead as you can. Failing that... How to Crash | Bicycling
Of course, perhaps the better example would be the Armstrong TDF Crash.

I agree with others, don't over-ride the conditions of the road.

What is the source of this sand? I've thought about bringing a broom to sweep some of the glass and debris off of my commute rides

Traction has been hotly debated, and unfortunately, I don't want to force myself into a crash.

My driveway has some fir needles on it. Then when it gets wet, I loose traction for standing hill climbs.
Last winter, I observed that with my mostly bald Origin8 Elimin8er tires (25mm), I would loose a full half pedal stroke whenever I broke the wheel loose. It just would spin.
When I mounted my Schwalbe Marathon Plus (25mm) on the rear of the same bike, I would still break the wheel loose, but I could feel about 50% traction as it would spin.

I attributed the difference to the minimal tread that would get some bite, but perhaps a different rubber too. I'm hoping to do more rigorous testing next winter.

For hill climbing traction, I've also noticed the body position is vital. So, sitting I get more traction as well as a smoother stroke, to the point where I have almost 100% of the weight on the rear wheel.

Practising slides?
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Old 07-23-15, 11:44 PM
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Slow down.
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Old 07-24-15, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by a1penguin
Depending on your speed, sticking your leg out to catch yourself might lead to a leg injury.
Broke my knee/stretched my ACL doing exactly this. Foot planted, but body and bike kept moving, tried to bend sideways essentially....

Would much rather deal with road rash than that.
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Old 07-24-15, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by monkeyboy13
Semi new cyclist here.... What is y'all's technique for dealing with sand and other slippery conditions on road bikes, especially those with clip pedals/fixed gears?

Should I just unclip my foot from the inside pedal to catch myself if sand/water/oil makes my front wheel slide out like they do on dirtbikes(or some equivalent for those on fixies)?....

I just want to prevent this type of accident from happening again any time soon. My bike is okay luckily, but I'm not. What is your slippery road accident avoidance?
Originally Posted by PaulRivers
1. Watch out for it
2. Don't hit it
3. Never prioritize keeping up with traffic over watching for bad stuff like sand on the road

There's just really not way to deal with sand other than avoiding it. You can also try not turning if you're hitting it (the wheel turning makes it worse). I don't usually try to brake beyond lightly braking either.

Originally Posted by striknein
The best advice I can give is to always look as far ahead as you can. Failing that... How to Crash | Bicycling
Reply from a decades-long experienced cyclist here. Good advice above for your questions, especially @PaulRivers. My general advice about clipless pedals is if you even think about slowing down or stopping, unclip one (my right) foot. Looking ahead will keep you aware.

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 07-24-15 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 07-24-15, 06:33 AM
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My best advice is simply to slow down on corners. Keep looking ahead and dial it back if you see sand ahead. Try to avoid braking while on the sand, and use both brakes if you do -- using just the front brake will take you down quicker than anything.

In my 40+ years of road cycling, I have never been hit by a car. But I have crashed from sliding out on corners three times. I treat corners with much respect now, particular when roads are wet, sandy, gravelly, oil and/or very sharp.
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Old 07-24-15, 07:20 AM
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Adding to the above advice, try to ride straight through sand, even in a corner. Also, getting your weight as far back as possible may keep the front wheel from digging in and may allow it to float over the sand somewhat (with the emphasis on "may"). Wider tires can help. I was recently riding a fully loaded tourer on hard packed sand slowly and straight, and as soon as I hit softer sand, the front wheel dug in and I went down. No harm done and I was anticipating it, but even then, sometimes there is no way to avoid falling, other than stopping and putting your foot down.
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Old 07-24-15, 07:26 AM
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My technique is to watch for patches of debri. Avoid if possible. Slow down before you hit it. If possible straighten out your line. Blind corners should be approached with caution.

For those times I am caught unawares. Slow down by stopping pedaling. Straighten my line. If you lose traction you're not going to continue the curve anyway. Either prepare for the crash or look for a way out.

My technique may not be the best. Liked the link above about how to crash.
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Old 07-24-15, 07:29 AM
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Well, if it is on your commute, you will quickly learn the personality of the terrain you are riding and what to watch for. If not, the best advice is to watch the terrain and slow down if you are unsure.

I don't know what kind of tires you are using, but a cyclocross type tire is 10 times better than a rounded road tire. I just did a mixed route home last night on a road tire that is bigger than my cyclocross type tire, and it was a hand full on the soft sections.
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Old 07-24-15, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by PaulRivers
1. Watch out for it
2. Don't hit it
3. Never prioritize keeping up with traffic over watching for bad stuff like sand on the road

There's just really not way to deal with sand other than avoiding it. You can also try not turning if you're hitting it (the wheel turning makes it worse). I don't usually try to brake beyond lightly braking either.
All this. I approach corners as if there is something in it which will be an issue. My commutes end turning into the road I live on from a downhill, with a greater than 90 deg turn, and which is strewn with gravel kicked up from cars which cut the corner onto the gravel shoulder.

I've had the front wheel slide in such situations, both on bicycle and motorcycle, but only been down as a result once, when there was actually ice all over the corner. And I don't think much would have kept me upright in that particular situation.

To the above, I would add:
4. Brake before the turn, not through/during it. You need all the traction for steering at that point, don't waste any of it on braking.
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Old 07-24-15, 08:45 AM
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You should be constantly alternately scanning the traffic all around you, and the ground far enough ahead of you to stop in time. Just go around the sand. Stop and wait for traffic to clear if needed, or do whatever is needed to avoid it.
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Old 07-24-15, 08:51 AM
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Glad you're ok. Falling is bad. Falling in traffic can be catastrophic. That is one of the reasons I ride a more upright bike, to be better able to see whats coming.

I used to ride a kind of hybridish tire, the WTB Nano Comp. Once I wore them out, and had a really good idea of what my commute entailed, the most "road" type of tire I use is the schwalbe big apple. Even that tire is slick enough I had to get used to lower traction again.

I know a lot of people really like them, and get great results with them, but my own personal opinion is that true road or race bikes do not make for good commuter bikes. Especially if that bike still has the road or track tires.
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Old 07-24-15, 08:55 AM
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Approach it like you would if driving on snow and hitting an icy patch, or if you have no experience with that, than as you would if you were hydroplaning. Ride through it, straight and with no added speed or applying of the brake. Don't focus so much on keeping up with traffic until you have achieved good bike handling skills. Traffic will go around you. Of course, avoiding sand all together is preferable.

Experience: Columbia and Lexington, SC are full of sand deposits that can be unavoidable.
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Old 07-24-15, 08:59 AM
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EXPECT sand or gravel in every corner and plan accordingly.
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Old 07-24-15, 10:12 AM
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Slow down.

Ride slower than you think you need to until you know your route.

I dropped my bike on some loose sand a few years ago. Every time I take that corner, I take it very slowly and mostly upright.

Don't worry about the cars, let them worry about themselves. Going down in traffic is THE WORST possible thing that can happen. Anything that you have to do to avoid that is prudent.
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Old 07-24-15, 10:55 AM
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I assume that every corner is going to be sandy/slick/a danger spot so I ride accordingly. The closer you are to the curb, the greater the chance that you will lose traction taking that corner. If possible, I will take the entire lane to make a turn onto a side street. Trying to ride where car tires go decreases the chance that there will be debris in that path, to include sand/dirt.
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Old 07-24-15, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by alan s
Adding to the above advice, try to ride straight through sand, even in a corner. Also, getting your weight as far back as possible may keep the front wheel from digging in and may allow it to float over the sand somewhat (with the emphasis on "may"). Wider tires can help. I was recently riding a fully loaded tourer on hard packed sand slowly and straight, and as soon as I hit softer sand, the front wheel dug in and I went down. No harm done and I was anticipating it, but even then, sometimes there is no way to avoid falling, other than stopping and putting your foot down.
I ride hardpack trails with loose pea gravel on slicks at 120psi occasionally. I try to keep a decent pace; when approaching turns I scrub some speed, bear to the left side of the trail, then take the turn wide so as to maximize the radius at the turns as I go. The straighter you can track through the crux of the turn (ie the sandy part), the better off you'll be.
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Old 07-24-15, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by mconlonx
I've had the front wheel slide in such situations, both on bicycle and motorcycle, but only been down as a result once, when there was actually ice all over the corner. And I don't think much would have kept me upright in that particular situation.
Studded tires would have as long as you didn't hit the turn to hard, but that's a different topic. :-)
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Old 07-24-15, 02:29 PM
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Sorry about your wreck. Don't corner through sand with slicks.
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