Leisesturm

I don't know... he's never been in the big cog before? Months of riding, this same hill likely... my limit screws stay adjusted for the life of the derailleur. I changed a wheel and had the chain run off the cluster. twice. At each end. I'm very sensitive to stuff not feeling right. I backed off in each case before things got too snarfed. At the top of a hill...

ElJayGee

Have you tried social media? I've had success posting a detailed story in the public view on facebook for other companies before. I can say that you will at least get a Cannondale corporate response in short order. Can't promise that it will be to your liking though, good luck.

AlTheKiller

Tell that to a bike with a short cage rear derailleur and a large range cassette, or even just a chain being one link too short... Cross chaining can absolutely care about tooth counts in a variety of circumstances.

Didn't use a torque wrench on what? The rear low limit screw? The QR skewer??? Are you serious?

elmore leonard

He did say the deraileur tore through the carbon fibre by the drop out. I assumed that was were the break occured. I'll read it again.

mconlonx

After seeing this whingey thread crossposted in a couple different places, I'm now getting a feel for why the shop may be less than accommodating in this particular situation...

tjspiel

Don't have a carbon bike but on the one bike with a replaceable hanger, it's bolted to the dropout. If it was a CF dropout and that bolt was over-tightened I could see how it could have damaged the dropout to the point that it eventually tore away.

InTheRain

Maybe the shop is less than accommodating because they are the only ones that have touched the derailleur. It's pretty obvious that Cannondale or the bike shop aren't going to budge. They know that a customer is going to have to spend $10,000+ to even get any kind of a law suit started. I'm not willing to do that for a frame that's worth $1000 - $1500. However, I don't mind sharing my experience with friends, other cyclists, and online forums. In the past, I referred many people to the shop and recommended cannondale... I choose to go a different route now. My posts have been in threads where cannondale is mentioned.

79pmooney

I'm with the OP on this one. A limit screw not doing its job almost always shows when you shift or apply power, not pedaling lightly. Cross chaining usually helps pull the derailleur outboard toward the outer chainring and away from the wheel.

Perhaps the OP is lying to us, the shop and therefor Cannondale. I'm sure that has happened. Or the OP is telling us straight up and Cannondale is appearing to not be honoring their warranty. They could have at least sent out a rep to look at it. Since the hanger is still straight, it should be possible to remount the wheel, jig the hanger in place and see if that screw is adjusted right. Yes? Offer a replacement. No? Show the mock-up to the OP and work with him to get things right. It's called customer service (or the customer is always right). I am guessing Cannondale can afford it, even in these tough times.

There was no danger of me ever buying a Cannondale, but they just slipped a notch in my book and someone else might hear of this incident from me.

Edit: and again, if the OP is telling the truth, that only the Cannondale authorized shop has touched the RD setup and adjustment and sent out a customer on a bike that will self destruct if he cross-chains? That's a big oops. If that happened, the shop should man up, replace everything needed and do it with a smile. And give a talking to that employee so it doesn't happen again. And the rest,, ie the dollar trail, is between the shop and Cannondale. The OP should see none of that.

Ben

InTheRain

My explanation would be that the frame itself either failed (material fatigue or failure in the manufacturing process) or the shop improperly installed the derailleur, hanger, or both at the time of purchase (that was a long time ago) if it is the shop that puts the bikes together. Or the shop made adjustments to the derailleur and/or hanger failed in making sure that the hanger and derailleur were properly secured and everything properly tightened down. I only pedaled. I did not crash. I did not cause the damage to the frame or the accessories. I doubt that I have put any more than 300 miles on the bike since the last time it was in the shop for it's "free tune up."

Anyway, I'm the one that paid out the money for what I believed to be a quality product and quality service at the time of purchase. Obviously, one, the other, or both did not come close to meeting my expectations. Neither gets my money or business again. Both at least get to hear my "feedback." The manufacturer won't blame the retailer/shop. The retailer/shop is fully supportive of the manufacturer. However, it's the customer that gets screwed here. I'm sure all of you have been in a similar situation with some type of product or service at some time in your life (maybe not, not a lot of support here for the customer.)

B. Carfree

What are the small claims limits in WA? You don't have to sue for the full amount of your loss; you can just sue the shop (and Cannondale, perhaps) for the maximum that small claims allow in your state. You'll want to get someone from a different shop to come testify as to the likely cause of the failure.

Personally, I don't sue when stuff like this happens. I just let the shop know that I will "advertise" for them at every opportunity. How many lost bike sales does it take for them to have lost more than replacing your frame on their dime would have cost them?

tjspiel

Supposedly CF doesn't fatigue. It could have been damaged long ago and/or there was enough movement between the dropout and the hanger to wear through the fibers until it got to the point where couldn't hold.

I've seen reports of CF dropouts that lacked any kind of metal protective layer getting gradually eaten through by the serrated surfaces of skewer ends. Some CF dropouts have metal faces on them for this very reason. Did yours?

Anyway, derailleurs ending up in the spokes in not all that uncommon. A frame should be designed to withstand that IMHO.

mconlonx

Cannondale is going beyond what they are compelled to do in this case by offering a crash replacement discount on a frame or bike. Chances are nearly 100% that it was a mechanical malfunction that led to the frame failure, not the frame failing, so the lifetime warranty on the frame because of manufacturing defect or design flaw simply does not apply. Cannondale is not responsible under the frame warranty to cover damage as a result of mechanical malfunction. No bike manufacturer has that kind of coverage

The shop appears to hold the most responsibility in this case if, as you claim, they did the initial setup and any and all adjustments/maintenance since new. But it's a two way street -- there needs to be a certain amount of owner involvement and... ownership... involved.

We have your side of the story; we don't have the benefit of the shop's side of what the issue actually is or what went down. Maybe this was just some kind of bizarre coincidence of shifting technique, force applied to the drivetrain, and an unfortunate bump in the road which caused and unforseen vector in the equation causing the derailleur cage to hook a spoke. Maybe there were symptoms you ignored or didn't know enough to pay attention to, which presaged the event, and if looked into beforehand, could have prevented it. If it's some kind of freak event, should the shop be held responsible? If you are complicit in some way with what went down, should the shop shoulder the full cost?

In situations like this, there's a lot of leeway involved. There's Cannondale corporate. There's the outside rep who interfaces with the store. There's the store owner/manager. And the mechanic or service manager. At any level, a person in a position of authority could go to bat for you and make things work out to your satisfaction, in this case a replacement frame.

The approach you are taking here on BF, with multiple postings of the exact same text, insistence that this is a Cannondale frame warranty issue in the face of being told it's not, and why it's not, and the generally argumentative nature of your presentation leads me to believe that you are angry -- justifiably so, no one likes it when their bike breaks -- and probably conveyed this to various people involved in the shop and corporate end of things.

People are people, and it seems that no one wanted to go out of their way to do you any favors. There's probably a reason for that.

InTheRain

The installation screws, derailleur hanger, and what is remaining of the dropout show evidence of crossthreading in one of the two installation holes. The screw that shows evidence of cross threading only shows evidence of that up to 3/4ths of the way up... an indication that is was most likely never installed completely flush with the surface (most likely felt too much resistance from the result of cross threading from the beginning?) Anyway, the paperwork from the purchase does not indicate who did the assembly and installation of parts, and of which parts. It's a Cannondale product, and if they have assigned assembly and installation to their authorized retailers, it's up to them to go after their "contractors"... that is not the customers responsibility.

I have not decided if it is worth the time and hassle to pursue legal action. It would be held up in court for a long, long time. It may just be better to move on, get me another bike, and share my experience with others about cannondale, their useless lifetime warranty, and their authorized retailers. Someone made a mistake, it wasn't me. It has already cost me. However, it will also cost cannondale and their retailers. I've already had one associate change her mind about buying a cannondale that I had highly recommended and she won't buy another brand from the retailer either.

In addition to my bicycle (+ $150 for lifetime tune ups and adjustments), I have easily spent $200+ per year at this bike shop over the past seven years. I'm sure they won't feel it. But someone else will gladly take that business. I will be buying a new bicycle to replace my synapse... it will not be a cannondale product and it will not be purchased from Old Town Bicycles.

Blue Belly

I've had a similar issue with another mfg. the lesson learned is don't spend the type of money you don't want to spend again. Those replaceable dropout hangers are notoriously weak. That's why they are replaceable. As has been discussed a thousand times, carbon fiber is really strong in some directions, not in others. It makes a great bicycle but, not a durable one.

Mvcrash

I'm not certain about the state you live in, but here in NJ to file a law suit in small claims costs about $50.00. You don't need a lawyer, they do. I'd file against the shop and let them deal with Cannondale. Have your ducks in a row, all the paper work, all the repair orders and the warranty. Photo's that show the bike was not crashed and line up a bike guy (expert) in case you need one.
I think you'll get a response from the shop before it hits court. just my 2 cents.

mstateglfr 

You got 8 or so years out of that doorstop. Silver lining, it try to take that into account.
Yes it's terrible to hear your bike frame is toast.
But you probably got a lot of miles and time out of it, correct?

Swap all the components onto a frame and you are out just the frame cost. More silver lining.

HardyWeinberg

My understanding is that carbon-fiber composite's fatigue cannot be modelled, not that it doesn't happen.

I wonder about fatigue on the derailer itself letting it back into the spokes on a setting that didn't used to put it there. The last checkup/tuneup is definitely suspect if it missed that kind of aging.

ttusomeone

I've been very happy with the three different Cannondale bikes I've owned.

mconlonx

Another possible part of the issue: at 8 yrs old, the bike is obsolete by manufacturers' standards. C'dale might not have and certainly is not obligated to keep that model year of frame in stock, at which point if they chose to honor a frame warranty, would ship out a later-model frame. Might or might not be the case that certain components won't just swap right over -- could very well be a different BB and/or headset standard. Who bears the cost of new, replacement headset and BB, both wear items?

My experience with those seeking warranty coverage is that they feel the manufacturer should be responsible for replacing these items; manufacturers think customer should be on the hook; shops get caught in the middle.

Leisesturm

I bought a bike in NYC from a major manufacturer which has to be considered a lemon. I am pretty mechanical but I never could get the bike to function optimally. My wife bought it through a dealer (surprise b'day present), but it came to my house via UPS. The dealer was much too far away for me to seek redress through a visit. As it happened we moved to Oregon not long after. I soon developed a relationship with a local LBS. I have several bikes I work on myself but parts and bike related chit-chat I usually source through local retailers when I can. Anyway... one day I was talking about my 'lemon'. The shop mechanic invited me to bring it in. After looking at it he indeed pronounced it a lemon and as a dealer for that brand they got me a new one. Brand new. I hadn't even bought it from them.

After a year the frame cracked at the bottom bracket. The LBS again came through for me, and I got another new bike. A much better new bike. The one that broke was no longer made and its replacement was much more expensive, not that the broken one was cheap. I will share the name of that brand with the o.p. if he wants, but really, they are not the real angels in this story, nor is Cannondale the real villain in his. The LBS is the intercessor between the corporate monolith manufacturer and the end user cyclist. They have a lot of influence in outcomes. I have to agree with another poster that there seems to be an unusual amount of unwillingness on the part of this LBS to really go to bat for him. There is more to this story than we are getting from just one side, I think.

Leisesturm

I'm getting a little annoyed about how major details (like the age of the bike!) creep into the story as it goes along. Really, 8 freaking years? I get that Cannondale put themselves on the hook with the "lifetime" warranty but, come on, who wouldn't think there would be a mile of fine print behind that. You can't even get a carbon fork in 2015 without signing away every right you have as a human being. An eight year old carbon frame... ... 20% off of a 2015 seems pretty generous, just saying. People with money are their own worst enemy sometimes. Cannondale has little to worry about from the o.p. and their little crusade to crush their business. I would take the offer and call it good. I would also encourage the o.p. if they want to keep riding expensive bicycles to learn a lot more about maintaining them. A curious dynamic operates in the bike shops I am familiar with. The customers that bring them the least cash because they do so much for themselves get their respect and even friendship. The customers that bring every flat tire and mis-adjusted brakeset in for service, leave lots of money in the cash register, but they get rolled eyes and snarky comments from shop mechanics once they are out the door.

Wilfred Laurier

If the frame had cracked at a joint without unusual circumstances or other sources of damage, then Cannondale likely would have accepted the warranty claim. But since the bike was (presumably) assembled by them almost a decade ago, and the shop performed a tune-up not too long after that, then it will be exceedingly difficult to say who is at fault on a failure likely caused by an improperly adjusted derailleur.

Bike companies often pay very very little for the frames sold in their bikes - the Chinese carbon blank that became the 2007 Synapse was probably $100 or less, plus maybe a couple hundred dollars worth of finishing went on top of that before the bike was assembled.

Most bike companies will honour warranty claims that are 'on the fence' as it is easier to throw a piece of Chinese plastic at an angry customer than deal with their outrage. However, they likely have pretty clear guidelines as to what is definitely not considered a warranty defect, and rear end torn apart by derailleur caught in spokes is probably number one on the list.

elmore leonard

8 years and how many miles? I think 20% is a pretty good offer. I would take it.
I'm surprised they offered you anything. Trying collecting on the life time warranty you get with a roofing company.
Life time warranties are loaded with checks and balances that discount daily use. Maybe you can post the warranty words for us to read?

I think their warrenty may include. Damage resulting from normal wear and tear, including the results of fatigue, is not covered. Fatigue damage is a symptom of the frame being worn out through normal use. It is one kind of normal wear and tear, and it is the owner's responsibility to inspect his/her bicycle.

GamblerGORD53

The story is getting hilarious. LOL
Where is the photo evidence ?? It has Original age degrading parts ? How many times has the big/ big been used?
Would anybody at an LBS really be stupid enought to suggest it is AOK ?? haha I had a 3x8 and once or never used 8 of those gears.
The frame did NOT BREAK.
I made myself a CF trunk overhanging my front wheel on my tour bike. Mud flying off the wheel wore a hole clear thru.

jyl

The plastic spoke protector (dork disc) is meant to prevent a derailleur from shifting into the spokes. Was the protector mounted on the bike?