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Combat dog shot to death by cyclist who felt threatened

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Combat dog shot to death by cyclist who felt threatened

Old 10-17-15, 08:37 PM
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vol
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Combat dog shot to death by cyclist who felt threatened

Bronze Star combat dog Mike shot dead by bicyclist in Wyoming | Daily Mail Online
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Old 10-17-15, 10:01 PM
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Sad,but only the rider knows what the motivation was.
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Old 10-17-15, 10:09 PM
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At least two other news reports about this incident stated that the shooter had a "bicycle-mounted holster" for his gun.

Veteran asks for military burial for combat dog that was shot and killed
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Old 10-17-15, 10:14 PM
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and I also carry open when riding in this part of the country-not just for dogs-have seen critters that put me lower on the food chain-but dogs can be scared off-even trained ones.
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Old 10-17-15, 10:35 PM
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Living in Canada, where people cannot carry guns, i find it hard to believe a cyclist would need to use a gun to avoid conflict with a dog. When we were kids in the 40's and 50's dogs chased us a lot while we rode our bicycle and even chased cars and it never amounted to a hill of beans. Dogs have a hard time attacking while running after you on your bike.
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Old 10-18-15, 12:58 AM
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On one hand, the fact the cyclist wasn't injured and the dog was shot from behind makes me think he's full of it.

On the other, the law is on his side. The owner was reckless and let his animal escape. Pets are considered property and don't have the rights people do (they're only protected from torture/abuse). You can't be charged for killing an animal you perceived as a threat. It's why cops can walk in your house and shoot your dog even if you're not charged with anything. Sad but reality.
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Old 10-18-15, 01:54 AM
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Sad to hear what happened.

When a big dog bites you, it's sometimes too late to reach for a gun. Having said this, same goes for big strong men. "I felt threatened, he was approaching me in the street so I shot him! Shouldn't big men be made to walk in the street handcuffed, just as a precaution, you never know if they'll go for you!?"


I've never felt threatened by a dog when riding a bicycle. Been chased by a pack of stray dogs lots of times. If really persistent, I just dismount and talk to them. Makes them loose interests (my jokes must be really bad!). Dogs sense fear however. People who are scared will more likely be chased, and perhaps even bitten by dogs. Though it usually ends up by chasing them away from the dogs territory.


In my country, even when people attack you, even in your home, you are not always allowed to shoot. The law recognizes human life as the greatest value so you're not allowed to protect your property by killing a man, even a thief. Only if your life is in danger - he has a weapon and is going for you as an example.

Carrying guns in the street is allowed for police only, civilian licences for such things are very expensive and issued only in special cases (you need to prove you have a risky occupation, are threatened etc). Then it has to be concealed. So shooting anyone, man or a dog in the street is a crime for the fact a gun was carried (and used).
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Old 10-18-15, 05:36 AM
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The dog got out. It is the owner's responsibility to keep the dog under control. It makes little, if any practical difference whether the dog was shot, run over, or mauled by some other dog. Unreasonable as the shooter may be, the elementary problem is that the dog got out.
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Old 10-18-15, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by elmore leonard View Post
Living in Canada, where people cannot carry guns, i find it hard to believe a cyclist would need to use a gun to avoid conflict with a dog. When we were kids in the 40's and 50's dogs chased us a lot while we rode our bicycle and even chased cars and it never amounted to a hill of beans. Dogs have a hard time attacking while running after you on your bike.
Hey, when did the forum start allowing us to use the word gun? Anyway, large enough dogs can successfully attack running deer and other game, so a rider on a bicycle would not be a problem. Most dogs just don't really want to attack you.

Last edited by enigmaT120; 10-19-15 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 10-18-15, 11:40 AM
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The biggest problem that I've had with dogs is that a "real man", here in Redneckton Georgia, protects his house and family with an inbred and untrained pit bull. They used to chase me. I can guarantee you that a pit bull runs up a 6% grade faster than I pedal it.

I started carrying a second water bottle, filled with a little jar of Tabasco and topped with white vinegar. The unleashed "watch" dogs in town have learned that bike riders taste like crap and I haven't had any recent problems.
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Old 10-18-15, 11:46 AM
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This was a highly trained US Army dog, trained to act on the commands of its handler or in self defense. Only the shooter knows what exactly happened, but I am inclined to believe that this trained US Army dog would not have attacked him. Maybe the shooter has had previous experiences with stray dogs and took a preemptive shot at the dog, or perhaps he shot the dog just for target practice. The dog was after all, shot in the rear, suggesting he was moving away from the shooter.
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Old 10-18-15, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Maconi View Post
...and the dog was shot from behind makes me think he's full of it.
That's not quite what this article said:
Bessler does not believe the cyclist's claims that Mike, who was shot in the backside by the biker's bicycle-mounted holstered revolver, was acting aggressively enough to warrant the shooting.

Being that a human being is taller than a dog when standing it's completely possible to see the dog charging at you and hitting in the backside since you're aiming down at is from above.

It also says this:
The 20-year veteran also helped Mike as well because the service dog was also dealing with PTSD symptoms and had even been prescribed Prozac to calm his anxiety, according to the Army.

Finally, I would note that this is a Daily Mail article, which is apparently a tabloid magazine in the UK.

I'm not taking a position here - I don't think dogs should be allowed to be running around free range chasing and trying to bite and going after people. On the other hand it's also not hard to believe a rare person would just shoot a dog then claim self defense.
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Old 10-18-15, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
That's not quite what this article said:
Bessler does not believe the cyclist's claims that Mike, who was shot in the backside by the biker's bicycle-mounted holstered revolver, was acting aggressively enough to warrant the shooting.

Being that a human being is taller than a dog when standing it's completely possible to see the dog charging at you and hitting in the backside since you're aiming down at is from above.
It is pretty meaningless without mention of a trajectory.

The bullet also could have entered the dog's hindquarters from the side. If you hold a bike between yourself and a dog protecting his territory, a persistent dog will pace back and forth barking in front of the bike and eventually try to get around the bike. I've had to fence of small packs of dogs and would have to continually shift the angle of the bike to keep them from ingressing. Dunno if this was the case but it is one other situation where "shot in the backside" doesn't necessarily mean that the shooter shot at a retreating dog.
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Old 10-18-15, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
It is pretty meaningless without mention of a trajectory.

The bullet also could have entered the dog's hindquarters from the side. If you hold a bike between yourself and a dog protecting his territory, a persistent dog will pace back and forth barking in front of the bike and eventually try to get around the bike. I've had to fence of small packs of dogs and would have to continually shift the angle of the bike to keep them from ingressing. Dunno if this was the case but it is one other situation where "shot in the backside" doesn't necessarily mean that the shooter shot at a retreating dog.
Yes, this is exactly the kind of thing I was trying to get at.
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Old 10-18-15, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
The bullet also could have entered the dog's hindquarters from the side.
Yes, you are correct, that is a possibility. However, forensics would have to look at the wounds to determine entry/exit wounds.
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Old 10-18-15, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Mos6502 View Post
The dog got out. It is the owner's responsibility to keep the dog under control. It makes little, if any practical difference whether the dog was shot, run over, or mauled by some other dog. Unreasonable as the shooter may be, the elementary problem is that the dog got out.
Paying with one's life for mistakes is quite extreme. Like chopping people's heads for crossing the street on a red light.

Right to carry and use guns gives one a lot of responsibility. If the shooter had judged correctly that the dog was about to attack him, then the decision was right. If he was just scared and panicked... the thought of a scenario like that makes me angry. Sad event in any case.
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Old 10-18-15, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
Paying with one's life for mistakes is quite extreme. Like chopping people's heads for crossing the street on a red light.

Right to carry and use guns gives one a lot of responsibility. If the shooter had judged correctly that the dog was about to attack him, then the decision was right. If he was just scared and panicked... the thought of a scenario like that makes me angry. Sad event in any case.
Dogs that run in front of cars pay with their life every day. One reason for an effective method to keep one's dog on the property and off the street. A perhaps 65 pound German Shepard trained for combat being a little intimidating for a cyclist? Not a stretch for me to believe. I agree that it is the owner's responsibilty to see to it that his dog stays safe.

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Old 10-18-15, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by elmore leonard View Post
Living in Canada, where people cannot carry guns, i find it hard to believe a cyclist would need to use a gun to avoid conflict with a dog. When we were kids in the 40's and 50's dogs chased us a lot while we rode our bicycle and even chased cars and it never amounted to a hill of beans. Dogs have a hard time attacking while running after you on your bike.
A rider in a group I used to ride with was pretty seriously injured when he was attacked by a dog. Not so much by the dog, but from the fall. The dog was one of a pack owned by a redneck that thought it was funny they chased bike riders, and left his gates open so they could get out. Sheriff told them he couldn't do anything unless he saw it happen, and that they should just shoot the dogs.
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Old 10-18-15, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Dogs that run in front of cars pay with their life every day. One reason for an effective method to keep one's dog on the property and off the street. A perhaps 65 pound German Shepard trained for combat being a little intimidating for a cyclist? Not a stretch for me to believe. I agree that it is the owner's responsibilty to see to it that his dog stays safe.

Ben
It is owner's responsibility. I just don't like the "humanocentric" view of the world. A big man approaching in a dark alley can be intimidating, but I wouldn't approve shooting unless actually attacked, even though that might prove to be to late. Perhaps I'm too subjective on the matter.
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Old 10-18-15, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by elmore leonard View Post
Living in Canada, where people cannot carry guns, i find it hard to believe a cyclist would need to use a gun to avoid conflict with a dog. When we were kids in the 40's and 50's dogs chased us a lot while we rode our bicycle and even chased cars and it never amounted to a hill of beans. Dogs have a hard time attacking while running after you on your bike.
The dogs I could outrun as a teen I cannot always as a 62 yo. And the fall that could happen if I fail and that dog gets under my front wheel will mean a lot more broken bones than it did then. (And short of rabies or dogs that are true killers, that fall will probably injure me far more than the bite. So maybe I should be stopping. A bite means that it is probably 50-50 that the dog will be put away. It would be my service to the next rider.)

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Old 10-18-15, 01:43 PM
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I'm 75, ride my fixie everyday, and cannot imagine a situation where I would have to pack a gun or shoot a dog on my bike ride. Dogs chase other animals, seldom people. Golfers, in many areas of the country, run into coyote's often on golf courses, even bears and other wildlife and seldom have a problem with them. If this guy shot the dog in the back or has no dog bite, does the self defence argument stand up for him? I don't think so.
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Old 10-18-15, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by elmore leonard View Post
I'm 75, ride my fixie everyday, and cannot imagine a situation where I would have to pack a gun or shoot a dog on my bike ride. Dogs chase other animals, seldom people. Golfers, in many areas of the country, run into coyote's often on golf courses, even bears and other wildlife and seldom have a problem with them. If this guy shot the dog in the back or has no dog bite, does the self defence argument stand up for him? I don't think so.
"... seldom people." But often bikes. I have crashed hitting dogs three times. And no dog bite? If a man pulls a gun on you, you do NOT have to wait until he pulls the trigger to claim self-defense.

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Old 10-18-15, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by elmore leonard View Post
I'm 75, ride my fixie everyday, and cannot imagine a situation where I would have to pack a gun or shoot a dog on my bike ride. Dogs chase other animals, seldom people. Golfers, in many areas of the country, run into coyote's often on golf courses, even bears and other wildlife and seldom have a problem with them. If this guy shot the dog in the back or has no dog bite, does the self defence argument stand up for him? I don't think so.
I can't see myself ever carrying a gun on a bike ride either, but I have certainly felt threatened by dogs quite a few times over the years. Lots of farm dogs that are allowed to run free will chase cyclists. Usually it seems to be just for the thrill of the chase, but it's hard to tell when the dog is nipping at your heels and snarling at you so I can certainly understand someone feeling threatened and choosing to defend themselves if they have the means available. I have also encountered a variety of wildlife while riding - numerous coyotes and the occasional bear, elk, moose, big horn sheep, mountain goat, bobcats, mountain lion (only once), etc., but none of these have ever exhibited threatening behavior which is in marked contrast to the farm dogs that have come rushing toward me in an all-out chase.

Nor do I see a real issue with the dog being shot in the hindquarters. When I've had dogs act in an aggressive manner when I've been walking or standing still they don't always remain facing me. Instead they lunge forward while snarling and then back off and/or circle to approach and lunge forward again from another direction. If that's what the dog in this situation was doing then I could see that the person may have had the best opportunity for a shot while the dog was momentarily backing off before attacking from another angle.

The fault here would seem to be with whoever let the dog run loose where it could be perceived as a threat by someone on the public road.

Last edited by prathmann; 10-18-15 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 10-18-15, 02:40 PM
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It seems the bicylist in the news was ready to shoot whenever a crisis arises? If he lives or rides in crime ridden areas it's understandable, otherwise, it's worrisome.
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Old 10-18-15, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Slaninar View Post
Paying with one's life for mistakes is quite extreme. Like chopping people's heads for crossing the street on a red light.
The people who made the mistake haven't been killed. They've lost their friend's dog through carelessness, and I'm sure would be happy to shift their part of the blame over to the man with the gun. I'm not defending trigger happy paranoids blasting everything that makes them uncomfortable but that's an entirely different problem - my point was the dog got out. It could have easily been killed by a car, or something else, it should not have been running around uncontrolled. When you take into account the dog's issues, it seems like it should have been handled with even more care still.
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