InTheRain

Well, the same is true for me. On some of the club rides there are 60 year old riders that drop me on the hills. That doesn't mean that I'll be doing that when I'm 60 or 70. I can still maintain a pace of 15-17 mph on a solo relatively flat 25+ mile ride. (I'm 53) I overcame the barrier that e-bikes are just for older people and for people that are not fit. The e-bike is fun, convenient, and an excellent commuter... that's why I have one. 90 percent of it's use is as my commuter. 90 percent of my carbon fiber road bike use is for fitness and recreational rides.

InTheRain

...

InTheRain

If I don't pedal my e-bike, it doesn't move at all. It is pedal assist only. My e-bike would go as far without pedaling as that BMW would go without gas.

350htrr

The last few comments comparing different modes of travel brings me back to my earlier point that you can't/shouldn't lump E-Bikes with a throttle in with E-assist bikes with PAS... Totally different in how you can ride them. And no, I'm not splitting hairs...

tjspiel

Let me help translate.

Whether it's splitting hairs or not really depends on what people care about. Some people will refer to any type of a road bike as a "racing bike". They will lump a Bianchi Volpe or Trek 520 in with a Specialized Tarmac or a Trek Madone. Usually the people that do that would understand the difference if you explained it to them but probably have no interest in any of those types bikes anyway. It is technically incorrect to lump them together but to the people that do it, it doesn't matter.

So for me whether it is an e-bike, electric-assist, or pedal assist doesn't matter. Even though I understand that with pedal assist I'm still pedaling, providing part of the propulsion, and that I can turn the motor off completely if I like.

FOR ME, once you put a motor on a bike, you are changing an aspect of it that's important to me, - even if the motor is just assisting. That change currently would make me not interested in commuting on one.

When I write something like the above, I think a lot of people who are interested in e-bikes feel compelled to defend them. And again I will say, I'm not dissing e-bikes or making any judgement about those who ride them. Further, I'm not missing some key piece of information that if I could be made to understand, I would change my mind about buying one.

350htrr

And I agree, there is a difference (a big difference even) between a normal bike and a E-Assist bike... Just like what I am trying to point out, there is also a difference between an E-Bike with throttle and an E-Assist bike with PAS (also a big difference)... I'm harping on the difference because most people don't see the difference it seems. JMO

Ridefreemc

Agreed! But some are legal and some are not.......that is what I was saying. Also, mine has a throttle and pedal assist. Hmmmm, but I stay under 20 mph with the motor (pedaling or not), therefore legal in FLA.

350htrr

Yes, there are lots of angles... I am just pointing out the differences between systems... I too have a throttle and a PAS system on my bike, when ever I use the throttle I think of my bike as a moped, when I use the PAS I think of my bike as a normal bike with "some" assistance (35%) in level 1 which is what I use 90%+ of the time so I still pedal 65% in total for basically any ride... Now doing 100% assistance free would certainly count for more... But it's way more doable/enjoyable/practical/... for me and my situation...

As for the legal, I suspect most if not all throttle bikes are not, (legal I mean)... JMO

EDIT; there are starting to be PAS bikes out there that allow assist over 20MPH so People are always looking to beat the system.

hooCycles

I would consider an e-bike if I could afford one IF it took a commute that was too long for everyday commuting and made it doable.

InTheRain

What is too long? Before I had my touring bike I had an aluminum road/race bike. It didn't have fenders. When it rained my 7 mile commute was "too long." Thus, I would drive in the car on those days... and there are many of those days in this area.

I can make my commute really easy with the pedal assist. Commuting with the touring bike was fine in the rain. I would throw the rain gear on and I would stay dry... except when it was above 55 degrees and raining... then I would sweat from the effort of pushing the bike along. On the days when I had a meeting and could not arrive sweaty... the 7 mile commute was "too long." Back to the car.

I've commuted in my car one time since I got my e-bike early this year. I also bought a scooter for when I needed to get places even faster than the e-bike. I don't have many excuses for not riding a bike to work (e-bike or road bike.) So, I find myself commuting by bicycle much more often with an e-bike than I would otherwise. I can't say that any of that has to do with distance... it has stayed the same since I started.

Ridefreemc

Yes, hard to explain and you shouldn't have to justify, but it sure it the "go to" option a heck of a lot more isn't it?!

ChicagoDan

I am now seriously looking, and the only factor I have left to consider is the 70 mile round trip commute from my house is too long. It takes 5 1/2 hours on my commuter bike, averaging 12.5 mph. I have done that commute 5 times this year, but can't commit to that much time on a regular basis.

Most days are a 3 hour round trip bike and train commute with 14 miles on a bike daily.

The cost of my train tickets is $2,200.00 per year, so if I can replace the train part of my commute with an e-bike, I can certainly afford the cost, without even considering getting rid of one of our two cars.

Can I squeeze 70 miles into 3.5 or 4 hours? That's what will decide it for me.

MMACH 5

To me, it would defeat the purpose of why I bicycle commute.
Personally, I just have a thing for human-powered transport. I always have (I was a skateboard commuter for 15+ years before taking up cycling). There's also the matter of my middle-aged ability to pack on the pounds when I don't burn those extra calories.

I have a 52-mile round-trip commute and there are days when I'm tired or just not loving the excursion so I'll ride to the bus stop and take a break.

If you love having an e-bike and it gets you out more often than a traditional bike would have, then I say it's awesome and don't let anyone tell you it's "less than" in any way.

350htrr

With my set up I could do 70 miles in 4 Hrs if I could charge the battery at work, if not than it would require 2 batteries which has it's own problems... But yes it can be done, maybe even in 3.73 Hrs depending on how good a shape you are in and how much pedaling you want/can do... JMO

EDIT; I think 3 Hrs total would be the max I would consider workable... JMO

EDIT 2: Of course there are E-Bikes out there that can go 40 to 50 MPH and can go 100 to 150 Miles on one charge if you only go 18MPH without pedaling...

InTheRain

OK... if you are talking about a 70 mile commute, even if it's on an e-bike... that's too much for me. Sorry, I just don't love cycling that much. At an average pace of 20 mph... that's still 3.5 hours each way. That's like a second full time job.

edit: I misunderstood, 70 miles... it's roundtrip. Even at that, too much for me to do every day. Maybe one way on the e-bike and the train in the other direction for most of the way. I don't know what the regulations are in your area concerning e-bikes. If it's the same as here, I would be considering a pedal assist only that has a speed limiter at 28mph. If it's an option, I'd consider moving much closer to my work.

For you people that are commuting 20+ miles each way, that's pushing my limit for a cycle commute every day. My commute is 7 miles each way. I think my ideal distance would be about 12 miles each way. Beyond that, it starts to become work for me. Beyond 12 miles... I think I'm definitely going to have an e-bike in my stable of bicycles.

tjspiel

Even if you could do 70 miles in 3 to 4 hours in good weather, you probably couldn't in the winter. You'd still need a train ticket for a substantial part of the year or pay for parking.

Before making a purchase like that I'd have to ask myself how often I'd really ride. That's a lot time sitting in the saddle every day. The train may not be much faster but at least you can nap, read a book, or even get a little work done.

baron von trail 

A 70-mile commute requires riding a bike that is light and fast. Average speeds of at least 16mph are essential. That's two hours each way...a tough commute, IMO.

Mine is 50, and it is very hard to do it everyday. In fact most of the year it's impossible. I think my average is 2.5 times per week, judging by my yearly totals.

bmthom.gis

And I am not saying that it isn't great for you and your situation, just that I am dubious on your claim that "when you get too old to ride at an acceptable speed" - I don't think that necessarily exists as long as one is riding. If it works for you and gets you riding more, that's great, it really is. It just seems like you are justifying your usage with claims that the older you get, the harder riding a bike becomes and the slower you go. I might have misinterpreted what you were saying, but that's the meaning I took. Again, if it is working for you and you are liking it, that's all that really matters If you aren't having fun while on your bike, then you are doing it wrong

hooCycles

"Too long" of a commute is up to the individual and the terrain. So a 15 mile commute may be "too long" for one person but fine for another. The person who thinks it is "too long" should consider an e-bike, and the person who thinks it's fine does not have to consider an e-bike. The two individuals do not have to agree on whether an e-bike is appropriate or not for a given commute.

InTheRain

No, I don't agree that "the older you get... the slower you go" universally. I'm faster now than I was at 45. I'm slower now than I was at 50. I have a feeling I'll be slower at 70 than I am now at 53. I thought that I would be an e-bike owner when it just became too frustrating to ride because of age or decreased fitness. I'm saying that was not a valid reason for me to put off riding an e-bike. I have fun on the e-bike. My touring bike worked fine as a commuter. Now the touring bike has been converted to an e-bike... it works better for me as a commuter.

Plenty of bikes work as commuters. I'm just wondering if an e-bike is something that people would consider the ideal commuter... with full recognition that the initial cost is a barrier for many people. It seems the biggest arguments are that it's not exercise if you're commuting on an e-bike. That's a different issue. For me, the primary reason for commuting by bicycle is because I enjoy it much better than any other mode of transportation. I do not commute on a bicycle for exercise... that's merely a byproduct of commuting by bicycle for me. And if someone's main purpose for commuting is exercise, then it seems that you would want to make it more difficult, not easier. In other words, you would ride an 80 lbs bike and not a 14 lbs bike. When someone tells me they commuted 10 miles on their Walmart bike, I'm more impressed by their effort than the guy that did the same commute on his 14 lbs carbon fiber bike.

I see a lot of threads in the commuting forum concerning making the commute a better experience by improving or changing bicycles. I'm hoping people are considering e-bikes as a possible solution. It seems to be a trend in some European countries where a significant portion of the population uses as bicycle as transportation.

PatrickGSR94

I commute 15.5 miles each way, twice or sometimes 3 times per week. If I had an e-bike I could probably go by bike every single day and make the trip take only ~45 minutes each way. That would be awesome!

tjspiel

You are treading on dangerous ground if you're trying to promote any single type of bike as the "ideal" commuter.

Anyway, yes I commute for exercise and no, I don't want to commute on the heaviest bike I can manage. It's really not so hard to understand. If I'm miserable the whole time I'm exercising, guess what? I'm not going to stick with it very long. If I enjoy it, the opposite is true. So when I work hard, I want to be rewarded with speed. I don't want to feel like the bike is holding me back.

The truth is that I commute by bike for multiple reasons:

- it's better for the environment
- exercise
- don't have to pay for parking
- enjoy cycling and bikes
- like being outdoors

While still much better for the environment than driving, an e-bike is not as good as straight human power. I'd also get less exercise on an e-bike as already mentioned. Further, I enjoy bikes because of the simplicity of them and the thrill I get from moving fast under my own power. Don't you remember what it was like to run like the wind as a kid? I get that same feeling on a bike.

The reason you're getting some push back is that you asked if cost was the primary reason why people aren't commuting on e-bikes. When people provided other explanations, you questioned their validity. Instead of really wanting answers to your question, it feels more like you're trying to sell people on using e-bikes, - Europeans are doing it, so it must be a good idea, right?

I think it's great that you're enjoying your converted bike. I also really enjoy my fixie, but I fully expect that if I started a thread extolling the virtues of fixies, I'd get much the same response you did.

mconlonx 

I'd be looking around for a used 1990 Honda Interceptor VTR250, but would settle for an earlier model Kawasaki EX250. Either would be cheaper than a new ebike...

mconlonx 

I have a motorcycle endorsement on my license and it doesn't go away or require re-testing when renewing, so it is for all intents and purposes a lifetime license. But considering the hassle of getting such an endorsement, I can see why <50cc mopeds and ebikes fill a niche.

Insuring an older, used motorcycle is dirt cheap. Not as cheap as no insurance on a bicycle, but nearly a non-issue for an old guy like me.

I don't ride bike paths or MUPs -- there are none around where I ride so it's not an issue.

But if any of these are an issue for you, I can certainly see where an ebike might fit your lifestyle.

Of note: there are two very different classes of ebike -- the kind where you have some kind of throttle controller like a twistgrip or thumb throttle, and "pedelec" where the electric assist is only activated if one is pedaling. The former is indeed begging for comparison to an underpowered moped. The latter is much more bicycle-like.

I've test-rided pedelec bikes and there's no doubt about it, they are a blast. Make you feel like a hero. I mean, think about it -- +300w puts you into serious bike athlete power output category. The 500w and 750w kits put you into superman category. When the Trek ebikes were introduced and they were doing test rides at the industry trade show, there was not one single rider who did not come back with a big grin on their face.

They also very much have a valid place among cargo bikes and those meant for the disabled.

I once built up a motorized bike with one of those cheap Chinese 2-stroke motors. Just for kicks, really. Hated it. If I ever think to do another motorized bike in the future, it will be an electric powered bike. Probably front hub motor.

So while I knock ebikes as something I would personally not own and use, there are valid uses and reasons for considering one.

InTheRain

OK... you win! E-bikes are not an ideal commuter. I hope you win every race on your commute. I will shut up about it now.