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If you could afford an e-bike, would it be your "go to" commuter?

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If you could afford an e-bike, would it be your "go to" commuter?

Old 10-23-15, 03:34 PM
  #51  
InTheRain
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Originally Posted by tjspiel View Post
I think you misunderstood his reply. Maybe I did too, - I don't know. Anyway, for some of us, a major part of the reason we ride bikes is that they are human powered. I get enjoyment, satisfaction, and improved fitness/health from that. By putting a motor on a bike, even it's pedal assist, you are blurring the lines between a bike, a scooter, or a moped.

Just like a lot of people would prefer riding a bike over a moped or a scooter, many people will likely continue to prefer traditional bikes over e-bikes. If that's snobbish, well, so be it. It's not saying that there's not a place for an e-bike.

I also enjoy sailing quite a bit. If you were to mount a giant battery operated fan on a sailboat, it wouldn't change that much about the mechanics of how a sailboat is propelled but it would change the experience of sailing in a pretty fundamental way. My wife might prefer it. I wouldn't.
I don't believe I misunderstood. He pretty much admitted his intent... and that he didn't care (i.e. "shrug.")

Maybe some people are misunderstanding me. I ride a very nice road bike. I enjoy it. I ride it for satisfaction, improved fitness/health just as you stated. However, it is not the ideal commuting bicycle for me. I really don't want to put fenders, racks, lights, etc. on my road bike to make it a convenient commuter. It kind of destroys the purpose of that bike.

When I look at most of the people that have been posting on this forum for a long time, they seem to have more than one bicycle anyway. But, for some reason, they seem to identify themselves with a particular group of riders, and they want to convince others that it's the only way to roll. I prefer riding a bike over a scooter - but I still have one.. and I ride it. I prefer a bike over a car - I still have a car and I drive it.

As far as changing the bike riding experience on a commute... I don't think that adding a motor changes the experience of commuting in a fundamental way. It's faster. It's easier. However, when I used to commute on a hybrid bicycle and then switched to a carbon fiber road bike I found that my commute was faster. It was easier... but, fundamentally the same.

I would rather see people commuting by e-bike than in a car, bus, or van pool. For most people that commute by bicycle, they are trying to make their bike commute easier, faster, and more convenient. My experience has been that an e-bike does that for most bicycle commuters. It's an expensive bicycle commuting option in comparison to most traditional bikes. I guess if I lived in an area where the weather was nice year round and I had a very light load (everything fits in jersey pockets) then I would just continue to commute with my carbon fiber road bike until I got too old and out of shape - then I'd go to the e-bike.
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Old 10-23-15, 03:35 PM
  #52  
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I bought an e-bike 3 years ago just for commuting my 15 mile each way trip. Haven't done it all that often for various reasons but it sure is fun. Exercise - riding 5 or 6 20-25 mile training rides each week, a long 50-100 mile ride most weekends, plus doing a boot camp class, lifting, and seasonal triathlon training at my gym is plenty of workout time for me. I want to get to work without being exhausted and get home the same way after a day at the office. E-bike is perfect for that - I can pedal or not as I choose. Just park in the file room and plug it in, viola. My gas guzzler SUV runs about $10 a day when gas is $3 a gallon - this is pennies / hope to be able to do it more in the future, a job/schedule change just within the past weeks and within the same company now makes me less pressured for time.
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Old 10-23-15, 03:37 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by InTheRain View Post
When someone comes in and tries to belittle others, then I don't mind seeing that person get humbled.
Don't see where he was trying to belittle others. He did say that we wouldn't consider something that's powered by a motor to be a bike and that he's got no interest in riding an e-bike.
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Old 10-23-15, 03:45 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
Ooh, I like that idea. I could see something that would allow my wife to ride with me being nice. Right now, our vastly different riding styles means we never ride together. We used to and both got massively frustrated.
Yeah, it's like - I often bike at 19mph or so typical speed. You want me to slow down to 15mph or so, not problem. 12mph starts to get tedious. Someone wants to go 8mph? Torture for me. Or they can go 5 miles and they're exhausted - I'm just getting warmed up.

ebike means that 8mph rider can go 19mph without to much trouble, and go 30 miles. And since it's "assist" they're still exercising and it feels like a mutually shared activity.

That's my theory at least.
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Old 10-23-15, 03:47 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Squeeze View Post
Go ahead and quote the part where Caloso said or even hinted at being a hot shot roadie/racer or anything else quoted above.

And if you think Caloso said anything to belittle you - which I don't believe he did - I can't wait to read your reaction to the guy who called your e-bike a Wimpmobile.
I've looked at Caloso's posts on other forums. It's clear what he thinks he is. I don't think he was belittling me, just e-bikes and the people that ride them in general. However, my comment was intended for squarely for him.

"Wimpmobile"... that's what I think (I don't say anything) when I pass the roadie in his racing kit on the MUP as he's yelling to everyone, "On your left! Get out of my freaking way!" Then I watch him in my rear view mirror trying like hell to catch me as we ride up the hill. It's pretty funny. My e-bike is silent. There is no motor noise. From the back you cannot tell that I'm on an e-bike. As I pass people they don't even really catch a glimpse of the battery. I've had this experience several times. I can see the frustration on these guys' faces seeing a big guy on a touring bike loaded up with panniers passing them. I'm sure they are thinking to themselves that they just need to train harder and HTFU. When you make it a competition, you have to recognize that someone will always be better than you. (even when they're not... but it just looks like it when I'm on my e-bike.)

Most cyclists, including roadies, don't have an inferiority complex that they try to compensate for. I've had several friends that race competitively on the local circuit take a ride on my e-bike. They love it! However, if they are going to spend $3000-$5000 on a bike... it's going to be on a race frame or wheel set... not an e-bike. That's a good thing. You put your resources towards your priorities... even in your hobbies.

Last edited by InTheRain; 10-23-15 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 10-23-15, 03:51 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by InTheRain View Post
I don't believe I misunderstood. He pretty much admitted his intent... and that he didn't care (i.e. "shrug.")
If I may, he said he had no interest in an e-bike and you challenged him to explain his attitude/opinion and suggested that he was being snobbish.

Don't want to speak too much for Caloso, but I took his response as meaning that he didn't feel compelled to justify his thoughts on the matter. He likes what he likes.
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Old 10-23-15, 03:52 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by InTheRain View Post
I've looked at Caloso's posts on other forums. It's clear what he thinks he is. I don't think he was belittling me, just e-bikes and the people that ride them in general. However, my comment was intended for squarely for him.

"Wimpmobile"... that's what I think (I don't say anything) when I pass the roadie in his racing kit on the MUP as he's yelling to everyone, "On your left! Get out of my freaking way!" Then I watch him in my rear view mirror trying like hell to catch me as we ride up the hill. It's pretty funny. My e-bike is silent. There is no motor noise. From the back you cannot tell that I'm on an e-bike. As I pass people they don't even really catch a glimpse of the battery. I've had this experience several times. I can see the frustration on these guys' faces seeing a big guy on a touring bike loaded up with panniers passing them. I'm sure they are thinking to themselves that they just need to train harder and HTFU. When you make it a competition, you have to recognize that someone will always be better than you. (even when they're not... but it just looks like it when I'm on my e-bike.)
That's so cool that you can deceive people and make them feel weak while pretending that you're real strong when you're actually just a *****. Way to go!
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Old 10-23-15, 03:53 PM
  #58  
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It would be part of my commuting mix. I enjoy the exercise I get most days from my short commute. If my commute was longer than 15 miles one way or involved significant elevation change, I'd seriously consider an e-bike. The possibility of integrated lights, built in cargo storage, and an increased average speed are appealing. The major issue I have with an e-bike isn't that it costs so much, but that I would be at the risk of a significant loss if it were to be stolen.
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Old 10-23-15, 03:55 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by InTheRain View Post
I've looked at Caloso's posts on other forums. It's clear what he thinks he is. I don't think he was belittling me, just e-bikes and the people that ride them in general. However, my comment was intended for squarely for him.

"Wimpmobile"... that's what I think (I don't say anything) when I pass the roadie in his racing kit on the MUP as he's yelling to everyone, "On your left! Get out of my freaking way!" Then I watch him in my rear view mirror trying like hell to catch me as we ride up the hill. It's pretty funny. My e-bike is silent. There is no motor noise. From the back you cannot tell that I'm on an e-bike. As I pass people they don't even really catch a glimpse of the battery. I've had this experience several times. I can see the frustration on these guys' faces seeing a big guy on a touring bike loaded up with panniers passing them. I'm sure they are thinking to themselves that they just need to train harder and HTFU. When you make it a competition, you have to recognize that someone will always be better than you. (even when they're not... but it just looks like it when I'm on my e-bike.)
Let me float another possibility. Lots of people that make alternative choices feel compelled to justify and evangelize them for whatever reason. The way I see it, you've lobbed a number of insults at roadies in general and caloso in particular.

He said nothing bad about you. You've gone on about how commuting should NOT be a competition but yet express glee at passing roadies on your e-bike. Give that some thought.

Last edited by tjspiel; 10-23-15 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 10-23-15, 03:59 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
Yeah, it's like - I often bike at 19mph or so typical speed. You want me to slow down to 15mph or so, not problem. 12mph starts to get tedious. Someone wants to go 8mph? Torture for me. Or they can go 5 miles and they're exhausted - I'm just getting warmed up.

ebike means that 8mph rider can go 19mph without to much trouble, and go 30 miles. And since it's "assist" they're still exercising and it feels like a mutually shared activity.

That's my theory at least.
I agree. Yes, it's easy for someone to "go" from 8 mph to 19-20mph on an e-bike. However, if they are not experienced at handling a bike at that higher speed, it can get pretty dangerous for them. As long as they are comfortable riding at that speed, then it's fine. I've had less fit riders take my e-bike and I've taken my road bike on longer rides (15 - 40 miles) and they have enjoyed it. I'm usually the one struggling to keep up in that scenario. 15-16mph solo on my road bike is a pretty good workout for me. But hey, it's nice to sit on the wheel of the e-bike and let them pull for a while.
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Old 10-23-15, 04:01 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by InTheRain View Post
I don't consider commuting by bicycle an activity that has the primary purpose of getting in shape. Even if it was, I could make the ride on the e-bike more demanding than I could ever imagine on my road bike. Don't get me wrong, I love riding my road bike... it's just not the ideal bike for commuting.
Then our opinions differ. And that's fine. I think if an ebike encourages people to commute to work, that's fantastic. From a purely selfish perspective, it doesn't hurt me at all, and it means more people who like seeing the city putting in bike trails, bike lanes, complete bike routes without gaps, etc. Like a lot of bridges where I live have a barrier separated bike line that lets bikes go across the bridge - that only happens because there are a lot of people biking, and it gives me a lot more options for routes (you cannot legally bike on the interstate where I am).

The only place I dislike ebikes is that rare odd rider who wants to show up to a fast bike club ride on an ebike and feel like they're part of the group and winning the race or something.

Otherwise I think ebikes are great, I just personally haven't found a lot of uses for them.

Originally Posted by InTheRain View Post
As far as renting an e-bike for inexperienced (slow, out of shape) riders in order for them to try and stay up with a fit rider probably isn't the best idea. If a person is used to riding at less than 10 mph and now you're asking him/her to ride 20-28mph (limit of most e-bikes in north america) you're just asking for an accident to happen. I think a person needs quite a bit of experience to handle a bike at those speeds.
I do not agree. The human brain seems to be capable of handling the speed increase fairly well in my opinion, and most people are used to driving at higher speeds and gauging distance as well.

One advantage of the ebike is that you avoid trying to put them onto a skinny tired bike that requires more handling to ride faster. Since it's an ebike, you can put them on a fat tire with more grip and braking and they don't have the disadvantage of being slowed down by it.

Originally Posted by InTheRain View Post
If I only rode my bicycles in ideal weather conditions, I wouldn't be getting in much riding. Between October and April, I pretty much count on my recreational rides to be in adverse conditions - cold and/or wet. Same with the commutes. When I need to be faster - I take the scooter. When I need to deal with snow or ice (which is rare) then it's the car or the bus. Most of us can't count on just one mode of transportation.
I'm different - I avoid most rain. I can handle cold easily, and I actually ride on the ice with studded tires and it works fine (they even plow the mups where I am, Minneapolis, Mn, and a lot of times plow the sidewalks). I'm more limited in the winter because of fewer routes, it's slower, and a larger need to need to change clothes.

I don't have a need for a scooter - it's either the bike (or walking for short distances), or the car. And I need to have a car.

Like I said, if an ebike works better for you that's great. Just listing off the reasons why it doesn't for me.
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Old 10-23-15, 04:06 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by InTheRain View Post
I agree. Yes, it's easy for someone to "go" from 8 mph to 19-20mph on an e-bike. However, if they are not experienced at handling a bike at that higher speed, it can get pretty dangerous for them. As long as they are comfortable riding at that speed, then it's fine. I've had less fit riders take my e-bike and I've taken my road bike on longer rides (15 - 40 miles) and they have enjoyed it. I'm usually the one struggling to keep up in that scenario. 15-16mph solo on my road bike is a pretty good workout for me.
I've met people who just don't like to bike, but haven't met anyone who's comfortable at 8-10mph but has a problem at 19-20mph. Most people drive so their brain is used to processing higher speeds, and can pick it up in a few minutes.

Like I said in my other post one advantage is that they can continue to use fatter gripper tires and not skinny road tires which are the ones that usually take more practiced handling skills to safely go fast on. It's my opinion and limited experience that someone who can go 8-10mph has no problem going 19-20mph as long as the tire stays fairly wide. Going from a fatter tires cruiser to a skinny road bike takes more skill.

Originally Posted by InTheRain View Post
But hey, it's nice to sit on the wheel of the e-bike and let them pull for a while.
That is an advantage...
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Old 10-23-15, 04:07 PM
  #63  
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I am not a sport rider. As such, most of the anti-ebike arguments fall deaf on my ears. I ride to get to work, church, and the market.

That being said, yes, I would use an e-bike. In China I had an e-scooter. I also had, and have, a sport bike for fun riding. Again, riding to work is not about fun, it is about getting to work. I actually have an e-bike kit on order. The wind here is winning. In the mornings the wind is against and is generally between 15-20mph (I check on wunderground before I leave).
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Old 10-23-15, 04:09 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by tjspiel View Post
Let me float another possibility. Lots of people that make alternative choices feel compelled to justify and evangelize them for whatever reason. The way I see it, you've lobbed a number of insults at roadies in general and caloso in particular.

He said nothing bad about you. You've gone on about how commuting should be a competition but yet express glee at passing roadies on your e-bike. Give that some thought.
If I'm lobbing insults at roadies then I guess I'm lobbing insults at myself. There are days when I'm a roadie (no, not really... more like a wannabe) and ride in a pace line with a bunch of them. I don't race. My "glee" is not the "competition" of a commute (if there is such a thing) but in watching a guy being a jerk get his #%$ handed to him. You might want to re-read your own post - I have said nothing about "commuting should be a competition."

Make your choice... just don't belittle others for making their choice. If you're on an e-bike, road bike, mountain bike, bus, or scooter... I think you're making a better choice than commuting in a car... if that's an option for you.
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Old 10-23-15, 04:11 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Walter S View Post
That's so cool that you can deceive people and make them feel weak while pretending that you're real strong when you're actually just a *****. Way to go!
If they feel weak, they have a problem... not me.
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Old 10-23-15, 04:18 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Robert C View Post
I am not a sport rider. As such, most of the anti-ebike arguments fall deaf on my ears. I ride to get to work, church, and the market.

That being said, yes, I would use an e-bike. In China I had an e-scooter. I also had, and have, a sport bike for fun riding. Again, riding to work is not about fun, it is about getting to work. I actually have an e-bike kit on order. The wind here is winning. In the mornings the wind is against and is generally between 15-20mph (I check on wunderground before I leave).
Totally agree. "commuting" is the process of getting to work. I try to commute in the most enjoyable way for me. 99 percent of the time, that is not in a car. Most of the anti e-bike arguments seem to have something to do with fitness. That has nothing to do with my regular bike commute or my e-bike commute. It's a byproduct of my enjoyment of riding a bike. Some people see it as "cheating." But those same people don't see it as "cheating" when they ride a 14 lbs carbon fiber road bike on a commute and someone else rides a 40 lbs Walmart bike. I don't really see how you can "cheat" on a bicycle commute???

Maybe it's more prevalent than I thought. Do I need to realize that every time I hop on my bike to commute, that I'm actually in a race?
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Old 10-23-15, 04:29 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by InTheRain View Post
Don't get me wrong. I appreciate the commentary. I'm only giving my comments and sharing my experience to alleviate some concerns or misconceptions about e-bike commuting.

When someone comes in and tries to belittle others, then I don't mind seeing that person get humbled. So yeah, if Caloso thinks he is some hot shot roadie/racer that thinks it's cool tell someone that is riding an e-bike that it's actually not riding a bike at all, then I hope he gets dropped on his training rides and races... and often. The majority of the people in this world do not ride bicycles for fitness or racing, we don't need someone that does that to come in and tell us that is the purpose of commuting.
Discussion is good. Please don't evangelize or cast aspersions on those you disagree with.

Like @himespau, if I had a long commute and it wasn't practical to move closer to work, I might consider a pedal-assist bike. As it is, there's a relatively flat 6.5 miles between my home and work, which I think is about perfect.
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Old 10-23-15, 04:36 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
I've met people who just don't like to bike, but haven't met anyone who's comfortable at 8-10mph but has a problem at 19-20mph. Most people drive so their brain is used to processing higher speeds, and can pick it up in a few minutes.
I think you ride/commute with a more experiences crowd than I do. On my way to work, the MUP is downhill (not a lot, railroad grade, rails-to-trails) and I see plenty of folks going 8-10 mph and using the brakes to maintain that speed. I'd hate to see them at 19-20mph... and if so, I don't think I'd want to be riding with them in a group. Even in some of my fitness ride groups where I think most of the riders are pretty fit and experienced, I see riders back off someone's wheel at 20 mph, and ride the brakes on downhill stretches so they don't get much above that. There are times when 20mph is too fast for me. In the mornings when I commute on the MUP it's dark. Even though I have great lights, I'm not comfortable at 20 mph. I've had too many close calls with deer jumping out in front of me or rabbits or squirrels (get one of those jammed between your tire, fender, and fork and you go down pretty quick - hasn't happened to be yet, but I've seen it twice) that I just don't trust my reaction time or bike handling skills.

So, even with an e-bike, I think you have to be cognizant of experience and bike handling skills. I know someone that has a specialized e-bike. Top speed 28mph with assist. I'm not going to hop on the back wheel of an inexperienced rider while he's trying to maintain that speed. Just because you have the ability to go fast, doesn't mean you should, especially if you don't have the bike handling skills for those speeds. I'm sure that you are aware of the abilities of those that you plan to ride with. You're knowledgeable, you're not going to let them do anything crazy... and if they do, you're not going to be part of it.

Anyway, I think we're off topic. This was supposed to be about e-bike "commuting." I think we are talking about a whole different animal now.

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Old 10-23-15, 04:45 PM
  #69  
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Had to step out for a meeting for a couple of hours. What did I miss?

OP: I don't believe I've belittled anyone. I said that e-bikes are not for me. I said that I don't consider them to be bikes but more like a scooter. I enjoy riding a bike; a big part of that enjoyment is making it go under my own power and nothing more. Don't take my lack of enthusiasm for your preferred mode of transportation to be an insult.

Nor do I think it's "cheating," whatever that means -- it's your phrase, not mine. You're not competing with me and your fitness or lack thereof doesn't affect me.

Now it's true that I do race. And you're free to look up my results on USAC and you'll see that I get dropped plenty. But in order to get dropped a little less often, I need to find time to train. And like a lot of racers, I discovered that I could combine the two. For example, the other morning I had a set of intervals that required me to do X watts for Y time, repeated Z times. Well, turns out with a little creative route planning and my office clothes in a backpack, I could complete the workout and arrive at work. Training/commute.

If you think an e-bike is a better commuting option for your commute, that's great. You're right: it's probably a better choice than driving or even public transportation. But it's not for me.
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Old 10-23-15, 04:54 PM
  #70  
InTheRain
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Had to step out for a meeting for a couple of hours. What did I miss?

OP: I don't believe I've belittled anyone. I said that e-bikes are not for me. I said that I don't consider them to be bikes but more like a scooter. I enjoy riding a bike; a big part of that enjoyment is making it go under my own power and nothing more. Don't take my lack of enthusiasm for your preferred mode of transportation to be an insult.

Nor do I think it's "cheating," whatever that means -- it's your phrase, not mine. You're not competing with me and your fitness or lack thereof doesn't affect me.

Now it's true that I do race. And you're free to look up my results on USAC and you'll see that I get dropped plenty. But in order to get dropped a little less often, I need to find time to train. And like a lot of racers, I discovered that I could combine the two. For example, the other morning I had a set of intervals that required me to do X watts for Y time, repeated Z times. Well, turns out with a little creative route planning and my office clothes in a backpack, I could complete the workout and arrive at work. Training/commute.

If you think an e-bike is a better commuting option for your commute, that's great. You're right: it's probably a better choice than driving or even public transportation. But it's not for me.
My apologies. However, i consider e-bikes to be bikes... just like i consider road bikes, touring bikes, mountain bikes, fixies, and recumbents, to be bikes. Until an e-bike is legally classified to be a motor vehicle in my community, then I'll consider it to be a bicycle. (There are criteria in the law that classify certain e-bikes as motor vehicles, I'm fine with that, they just shouldn't be ridden in areas that are designated for bicycles such as MUP's and bike lanes.)

Ride on. I hope you get dropped less often than you think you should.
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Old 10-23-15, 05:00 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by InTheRain View Post
My apologies. However, i consider e-bikes to be bikes... just like i consider road bikes, touring bikes, mountain bikes, fixies, and recumbents, to be bikes. Until an e-bike is legally classified to be a motor vehicle in my community, then I'll consider it to be a bicycle. (There are criteria in the law that classify certain e-bikes as motor vehicles, I'm fine with that, they just shouldn't be ridden in areas that are designated for bicycles such as MUP's and bike lanes.)

Ride on. I hope you get dropped less often than you think you should.
Thanks, you too.
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Old 10-23-15, 06:38 PM
  #72  
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Right now, I'm not interested in one even though I could easily afford it. I like riding my bike, am in good shape (partly because i ride!), my commute is a reasonable distance (12 miles r/t), and I live in a pretty flat area.

I can think of several factors that could change my mind though. As I age, I may find that pedal assist is just the thing I need to keep me on the bike. I might move to a really hilly area or find myself with a much farther commute. There's nothing to say I can't ride a regular bike on the weekends and an e-assist bike on weekdays. It's not like they are mutually exclusive.

One thing that could persuade me to get one now would be if my spouse I decided to get a cargo bike and go "car light." In that case, I would enjoy the extra boost pedal assist offers as I haul heavy stuff over longer distances.
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Old 10-23-15, 07:39 PM
  #73  
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there are enough hills on my way to work that I've really considered it. I think it would cut a significant amount of time off of my commute, and usually time is the reason I drive
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Old 10-23-15, 08:56 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by PaulRivers View Post
Yeah, it's like - I often bike at 19mph or so typical speed. You want me to slow down to 15mph or so, not problem. 12mph starts to get tedious. Someone wants to go 8mph? Torture for me. Or they can go 5 miles and they're exhausted - I'm just getting warmed up.

ebike means that 8mph rider can go 19mph without to much trouble, and go 30 miles. And since it's "assist" they're still exercising and it feels like a mutually shared activity.

That's my theory at least.
That's my thought as well. When it gets to the point where we're slow enough that I have a hard time staying upright, it's not fun, together time or not. I've thought (not too hard) of getting one of those tandems where the stoker can pedal or not as they like for the same reasons. That'd be a real workout for me and together time.
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Old 10-23-15, 09:00 PM
  #75  
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Sure, I'd definitely consider an e-bike if I commuted more than a couple of miles and had a secure place to put it at work. A lighter weight pedal assist e-bike would be quick enough for most city streets on my usual routes, and still be manageable to lug up a single flight of stairs. Might even work on the bus racks too if necessary.

There would be several advantages in Texas:
  • It'd be much cooler in summer, so I probably wouldn't need to tote a change of clothes.
  • Much cheaper transportation costs - no license, registration, inspections, mandatory insurance, etc.
  • Could travel on my own schedule rather than depending on public transportation (usually takes 3-4 times as long for the same distance).

Last edited by canklecat; 10-23-15 at 10:38 PM. Reason: Ficks tie-pohs
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