tjspiel

Not sure if I'm a purist or not.

I rode my fixed gear yesterday both to work and back (6 miles each way). It's not a particularly light bike, even without without gears, - call it 22 lbs. I probably have an additional 3 lbs of tools, tubes, pump, lights, etc. Then there's maybe another 10 - 15 lbs worth of stuff I put in a backpack which includes a laptop, change of clothes, and lunch. I have no need or desire to take more than that. Call it 40 lbs total.

My commute is pretty flat. On my fixed gear, it takes about 25 minutes. On my road bike I've done it in under 20, but 20 to 25 minutes is typical. Depends on traffic, wind, my mood, etc.

So yesterday, I got my cardio workout on my commute, and went to the gym for an hour to lift weights.

What would the advantages of an e-bike be for me in terms of health, cost, time savings, or benefits to the environment? I don't believe there would be any of significance.

Of course lots of people have entirely different situations and different values, but I feel my lack of interest in getting an e-bike is not the result of snobbery or elitism.

mconlonx

Oh, no doubt there's a valid market for them, and if it gets someone riding, or keeps them riding, that's fantastic.

It's just that they are not for everyone, and I explained why I wouldn't ride one as a commuter. I will say that a couple of customers who bought them for commuting were disappointed with the lack of reliability of the Trek Ride+ BionX bikes. Both of them were looking for bikes to do a 10-ish mi commute to and from work, 5 days/wk, and both had issues where the assist quit on them and left them pedaling 60lb bikes, and out of a commuter vehicle for as long as it took to fix them. Both returned their bikes within a few months.

bikebreak

When technology improves and size and weight of these units decrease, I would consider getting an electric motor for a commuting/cargo bike. I would never buy a 40+ pound bike, if the motor fails it's an expensive boat anchor. I bet a small motor (~300W) could be built into a carbon frame with good wheels at under 30 pounds.

I would prefer it to look like a normal bike, with motor hidden in the hub and battery in a saddle bag or pannier.
Would also prefer to ride the bike normally, but have a throttle on the bars to add speed from the motor. Would be nice to be able to add 300W when needed.

ETA: a stealth electric assist would also be nice for letting kids/wives keep up on recreational rides.

rhm

I can imagine needing an e-bike, in which case I would probably be interested. As is, I don't need one, so I'm not interested.

I-Like-To-Bike

If I ever "needed" an e-bike, I would buy a smaller displacement motorcycle.

rhm

Which raises the question, what would you buy if you needed a smaller displacement motorcycle?

But seriously, the hypothetical"If I ever needed an e-bike" implies that the e-bike does something different from a motorcycle, bicycle, transporter beam, &c, which sets it apart. At the moment, for me, it doesn't.

caloso

300w is enough power to go 22mph over flat ground by itself. An additional 300w would be incredible.

tjspiel

It seems a key difference would be the ability to ride it on MUPs and the like.

rhm

To my mind, this discussion is generally about how we (everyone) deal with evolving technology in an existing infrastructure.

I have seen something analogous over the last ten years or so, since I started using a folding bike a lot. Conventional bikes are allowed on rush hour trains on neither the Long Island Rail Road nor the New Jersey Transit, but folding bikes are allowed. And for me, the combination of the train and the bike has worked really well. But I'm always aware that part of the reason this works so well for me is that no one else is doing it. If other people were getting on the train with folding bikes at the same time as I, it would start to be a problem. And over the last few years, I am indeed seeing more bikes on the train. There is a threshold where they have to change the rules, and sooner or later we may reach it.

At the moment, electric assist bikes are using the NYC bike lanes, and I haven't seen them cause any more trouble to bicyclists than bicyclists habitually cause one another anyway, and I have yet to see one on the MUP I use on the NJ part of my commute. Are e-bikes going to become more common? If so, I'm not sure they will be able to share these spaces, and then they will change the rules.

loky1179

Well, maybe those are the only kind I've ever seen. They went by me at 25-30 MPH. But that's what makes them popular, right? You can go FASTER than a bike. I'd guess removing the limiter is the first mod many owners spring for. Or apparently on the kits there is no limiter. Mr. Money Mustache really loves his. He even brags that he doesn't turn ON the motor till he gets up to 20 MPH 2000 Miles of Justice: My Year of Riding Electric Bikes

Now I know YOU would never break the rules, but I've seen what kind of speed limit compliance we get from licensed drivers, on roads where they can already legally drive 55 MPH, 65 MPH & 75 MPH. It is still NEVER fast enough.

If riding a bike under your own power doesn't get you where you're going fast enough, great - get a motorized vehicle. But then use the VAST, EXTENSIVE infrastructure we've built for motorized vehicles, and stay off the few trails that are built for bicycles.

InTheRain

An e-bike is classified as a bicycle, thus it belongs on the trails built for bicycles. However, I have to ask myself, does a "road bike" belong on the bike trails... or on the roads?

kickstart

I've never had an issue with someone on an E-bike other than being aware of them, the same can't be said for pacelines of roadies.

tjspiel

My guess is that if you start to see significant number of pedestrian and cyclist injuries on MUPs related to E-bikes there will be some rule changes and a crackdown. Some of the MUPs I ride on have no speed limit and some do. Generally they're not enforced but that could change.

I have no problem with e-bikes on MUPs as long as they're ridden responsibly. However, if they cause a massive up-tick in bike commuters using MUPs, I might start avoiding them wherever practical.

tjspiel

Often times I do think road bikes belong on the roads. It depends on how they're being ridden. Someone trying to go 20+ mph on a crowded MUP should be on the street IMO. I've frequently chosen the street over a MUP running parallel to it for that very reason.

I would say that the same applies to an e-bike.

Ridefreemc

Hey even I get upset when I get passed by an e-bike doing 25+ - and that is while riding my e-bike! It is quite dangerous (besides as we can see giving us all a bad image). I had a Sheriff's Deputy give an analogy of speeders on the Interstate. Since a few people really get it over the limit it makes others speed just to keep up with traffic. So, eliminate e-bikes altogether and there won't be an issue. huh? Kind of twisted logic. I'd say if you carried that out the same as the way people talk about e-bikes here is that all cars should be prohibited from the Interstates since a few exceed the limit by quite a bit.

350htrr

But that's just it... It's illegal, it's not an E-Assist bike that is designed to give a helping hand... These bikes are mopeds for all intense/purposes... Done to beat the system, lumping all E-Bikes in with these is just wrong. JMO

Ridefreemc

That's kinda where I was going with my post, but you said it more clearly. Just because a few are bad/illegal doesn't mean you should lump all in the same category.

loky1179

I don't know how it is where you live, but I'd estimate that around here more than 90% of motorists exceed the speed limit.
As tjspiel mentioned, it is just as irritating when guys going 20+ MPH are blowing down the trail. But this is self limiting. Pretty sure less than 5% of all riders could maintain that kind of pace.

No such limitations for e-bikes. Anyone who gets one can go fast. Then it becomes an enforcement issue. Speed limits are poorly enforced on the roads. I expect enforcement on MUPs will be non-existent.

E-assist is OK, but E-bikes illegal. EVERYONE will understand that. I'm a bike geek, and it sounds like splitting hairs to me.

How is this to be enforced? It won't be.

hbok@mac.com

I looked up the laws before getting my e-bike. A number of the e-bikes sold in this country, including mine, only let the pedal assist take you to 20mph. Faster than that and you're on your own (pedaling a heavier than normal bike. Mine is 39 lbs.) Those are 'class 1'. Class 2 is similar (as regards the 20mph assist limit), only with throttles. (Though some states are slow about coming up with laws about e-bikes, and classify them as mopeds or motorcycles.) In many of the states that have adopted laws specific to e-bikes, class 1 and class 2, but not other e-bikes, are legal on bike paths. Likewise, according to the federal government, they are not classified as 'motor vehicles'.

I ride in on bike paths. No one notices or cares.

Edited to add: Wikipedia summary of laws.

bmthom.gis

Road bikes belong on the road, unless the riders are happy to ride slow/safely on MUPs. My experiences have been that there are too many runners, walkers and dog walkers to go much past 12 mph (with 75% of them wearing headphones and/or walking 4 abreast with friends taking the entire path). I don't necessarily have a problem with e-bikes using MUPs as long as the riders are also riding a sensible speed for the occasion.

Instead of the argument that ebikes might get more people riding a bike, we really need better infrastructure. There are a small few at my office who are impressed by 12 miles each way, but more are impressed that I ride on roads with cars because they are convinced every single driver wants to run me off the road. Better infrastructure would get more people riding bikes than their fitness level...after all, fitness is relatively easy to improve upon if one is willing to stick with it for a few weeks.

Other people riding ebikes don't bother me. That is their own choice. For me, getting the exercise and earning a beer or two is more important than getting to work faster. Besides, I have so much fun while riding a bike, why would I want to end that experience before I had to?

chas58

It friggen is!!!
Demo one if you can.

But realize the power needs go up exponentially.
300 watts (either motor or legs) gets me 20mph. Combining the two for 600 watts gets me to 25mph.

Still its kinda like having two riders on one bike (not unlike a strong tandem team, but much lighter)

chas58

Do you live in Germany or California?

What you refer to is a law that is only a couple of months old, and only pertains to California (although it is based off of laws in place in Europe). It doesn't apply to the other 49 US states.

US Federal law (as I recall) means it is not more than 750 watts, and unassisted doesn't go over 20 mph, put with pedal assist you can go much faster (as is the case with the Specialized turbo). Local governments can be more restrictive, or may not care at all.

chas58

Since you asked a personal question...
If I had $2000 to spend on a commuter bike, I wonder if I would get:
1) a nice carbon fiber bike
2) a nice e-bike.

9 times out of 10 I use a nice road bike, rather than a nice e-bike. But this is a bike form, so your answers are skewed...

P.S.
A German magazine did a test this summer to see which would be faster on a nice day trip - an e-bike or a nice carbon road bike. I should have read that article...

ThermionicScott 

What a troublemaker, coming to our country and retiring early and making slightly-illegal bicycles. We should deport him back to Canada.

chas58

No, its not so simple.

By US Federal law, a low power e-bike is a bicycle, not a motorbike. Some municipalities in Canada have directly addressed this debate, but not many in the US have, other than California. So, legally the answer is not clear in 49 states.

Answer #1 : NO - Toronto e-bikes are banned from bike paths. gotta stick to roads with cars.

Answer #2 : YES - California e-bikes are allowed on bike paths. In California, type 1 and type 2 ebikes (maximum speed less than 20mph) explicitly DO have access to all bike paths. Shoot, I can easily do 20mph on a bike path (unassisted), so I have no problems with sharing that.*

(*as long as I can draft an ebike! LOL)