To each his own, I guess.

I have an almost identical commute as the OP (3 miles one-way, with a 100-ft drop in elevation towards work in the morning) also in Southern California and I have been happy and sweat-free using a backpack for about 10 years.

Bigger rear and smaller front, don't overlook that part. A 39x28 on a standard double might not cut it; I'd want an easier ratio.

Can you expand on that a little bit? I am a total newb so the more details the better for me. I really appreciate your insight.

I'd find a used quality vintage mountain bike for a commute like this. With slick tires, they make darn good commuters and the price is very reasonable. Used mtbs are an under appreciated part of the market and do not command a premium. You can pick up a high end used mtb in the heartland for well under $200; it will cost more in LA but certainly $300 or so should do it. You can show links to the bikes you find on the C&V appraisal forum with your requirements and you will get a lot of feedback.

The cool thing about mtbs is that you have stout tires and wheels for city streets, eyelets for racks and panniers, and lots of gearing. Plus the bike is not a theft magnet and you own a cool old bike.

I picked up this 1992 trek 950 (a high end bike in its day) for $125 and with slicks and a rack, it makes a killer all around bike:

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=495683

The usual chainrings on a road bike have 53 teeth on the large gear and 39 on the smaller. A compact double is 50 and 34, sometimes 36. A triple (mountain bike) gets that down to 28 teeth on the smallest gear.

Gearing is the ratio front to back with lower numbers being easier to climb. So a 28 tooth small ring with a 28 tooth cog has a ratio of 1. With the 39 tooth ring of the standard road bike and a large 28 in back the ratio is 1.4, which means that it's 40% harder to go up the hill (at a given cadence). I personally don't think that a 1.4 gear ratio is adequate to climb 500 feet in two miles, not on a daily basis.

With road bikes the cogs (in back) can go up to 28 teeth, or sometimes only 26 teeth, limited by the road derailleur. To get that larger than that, we generally need to replace the DR as well as the cassette.

Replacing the rings, the cogs and the rear derailleur after the fact gets pricey. Worse if you switch to a triple ring because you then need new shifters. So I'd strongly advise getting a bike with the low gear ratio to begin with, probably a triple ring with 28 or bigger granny gear (on the cassette). That likely means "hybrid" (mtb gearing). It's also possible, though unusual, to find entry level road bikes like that with mountain bike gearing.

[MENTION=302603]bikemig[/MENTION] has great advice, the kind of advice I usually give. However, this can really be tough for a self-described "total newb". If you have a cycling friend who can help you navigate Craigslist, that can help. Without that, CL can be a time-consuming hassle and you might end up with a bike that doesn't fit, etc.

SO...I kinda think that *this* OP will be best served by going to a good local bike shop.

Agreed that a used bike can be a pain for a newb. But the folks on the C&V forum will steer the OP right on which bike to pick up. The only question is whether he has some basic mechanical aptitude to work on the bike.

There are some other advantages to going for a used mtb (in addition to the cash savings):

(1) The OP will have to learn some basic mechanical skills which he'll need to keep the bike running;
(2) The OP can use the cash savings to buy high quality, tough tires that are unlikely to get a flat (lschwalbes for example), high quality fenders, lights, helmet, etc. This will allow the OP to have a high end bike and components for well under his $1k budget.

Agreed that this may be a pain in which case the OP should look to a new bike or a used bike from an LBS.

Glad to hear it. The resources are from my blog. Started is as a sort of F.A.Q. for people entering cycling world. The bike-choice test is still a work in progress, but it's a good start I believe. :)

I'm wondering if walking would be a better choice, as you would get exercise both ways, rather than just coasting and braking all the way to work. Is there a section where you can take stairs up part of the hill? On a really steep hill walking is easier than biking because you can go as slow as you want and you only have to move your own weight, not the weight of the bike too. Five hundred feet is like climbing up 50 storeys. It would be easier to walk up without carrying the bike too!

I would call around to different bike shops. See if any of them let you rent bikes. And if you can apply that rental price towards the purchase of a bike. There will be a shop or two that will. Then rent a hybrid, road, and mountain bike. See which one you like best, and then buy from that category. A mountain bike or hybrid will definitely have low gearing. If you go road, make sure you have a compact crankset, with a big set of gears in the back(34 teeth little gear in front, 28+ teeth on the biggest gear in back.). Make sure you're comfortable pedaling while standing up.

FWIW, I just looked through my strava and I never went below 39/28(I have a 30/39/50 triple, so I could've) on rides similar to the stated commute. I'm not particularly fast, either. I'm a sit&spin guy, I don't really stand up unless I'm super tired.

I think 34/28 would be fine(which is what most road bikes will come with). Go 34/30 or 34/32 should be fine.

OP, I think just about any road bike would work, and $1000 is a generous budget. You can get a claris or sora spec'ed bike, which'll work just fine. Let the shops you visit know about your commute, and ask if you can get a medium or long cage rear derailleur with a big cassette. And that the bike has a compact crankset(34/50 teeth instead of 39/53, like explained earlier).

The biggest lesson I've learned about bike commuting is that I was way overthinking it and entirely too intimidated. Err on the side of small gears, find a way to carry your stuff that works for you. Make sure you have a couple blinky lights, front and rear. Maybe an actual headlight if you ride at night. Then just swing a leg over the bike and start pedaling. It's not too complicated. Don't overthink it.

When I went bike shopping I think I visited every bike shop in town trying to find the right one. Some shops I liked more than others. But with what I've learned now, all of them would've set me up on a bike that would've worked just fine.

Yeah, two miles, I'd be tempted to walk, too.

Here's a Strava segment with half of his climbing. https://www.strava.com/segments/654945 Nobody is spinning up there unless they're putting out a steady 400 watts. Most people can get to where they can sustain 180 to 200 watts, and people who are doing that on this segment are going 6-7 mph, which is only 55-60 cadence for 39x28. Mashing, not spinning. OP has the equivalent of two of those on his ride, and I don't expect a brand new rider to sustain 200 watts even if he is young and in good shape. So I'm skeptical of this.

A steady 4.5% grade is no big deal, but the problem with thinking that "only" 250 feet in a mile is less than a 5% grade is that it usually has steep sections. Half of that rise per mile is considered "hilly" by most cyclists. It's more challenging than people are imagining here.

Most road derailleurs, Tiagara and higher, are not technically spec'd for 28 and larger cogs. Road bikes won't have a 34 tooth ring unless it has a compact double - and most have a standard double. These are things OP should make sure to check and not assume that it has, or even can have without changing other parts.

How true, how very true.

A person with 1K to spend on getting started to commute to work and buys a $800 bike will soon be called a pedestrian. Lights, jackets, racks, bags, pump, flat repair kit, water bottle......all of even barely adequate quality will be several hundred dollars alone. Yeah, I know one can get by with less and brag about it, good for them. But I view them more of a fool than a hero.

Easier to go the the bike shop, sure. Not, quite as easy when you head off to work and get a flat------three hours before the bike shop four miles away opens. Anyone that cares about their job should acquire at least a few basic "survival" skills.

+1

I'd recommend getting a cheap 2nd hand bicycle to get the hang of it and get some idea what suits you best. A hybrid, or a rigid MTB would be a great start IMO.

Well I *did* say medium or long cage rear derailleur. We must be looking at different bikes, because I just looked at a few brands of road bikes under 1000 and they all had compacts, not standards(or a triple, for some Jamis).

But yeah, a couple segments like that are going to suck for the first month(or two!).:lol: You're absolutely right there, and I was thinking it was a steady climb.

He's going two miles in Los Angeles. He doesn't need a water bottle or jacket. Since going to work is all downhill, he can even wear a backpack without getting a sweaty back. Basic repair kit is $50(Bontrager Flat Pack - Summit Bicycles :: Burlingame, Los Gatos, San Jose, Santa Clara California), lights can be had for similar. A rack can be $20. You can use $3 bungees to secure a backpack or grocery store plastic bags with lunch and a change of clothes. A sweater or hoodie works fine at the speeds most cyclists go. The gear a serious hobbyist considers essential and the gear for a guy going 2 miles in mild weather needs aren't necessarily the same thing.

I love fancy bike stuff, but all 90% of people need to commute is a bike, the willingness to pedal, a spare tube and a tire lever. And maybe some babywipes or shower facilities near work. Oh, and a friendly route.

I have found that as much as you might train in the gym for a particular non-gym activity (basketball, swimming, cycling, etc.), there is nothing that is truly equivalent to doing the activity than the activity itself. That being said, your training in the gym may not fully prepare you for the hill climbing that you will encounter on the ride home (although watching movies from the couch may be sufficient training for the downhill commute!!! LOL) and there is no shame in getting off your bike and walking it because after a while, you will be able to do it, not just do it but you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

Yes to lights, racks, panniers (I hate backpacks while riding), fenders and a bike that makes you wake up and feel excited about riding. Did anyone mention a helmet? I would also like to recommend cycling shoes, even if you don't use clipless pedals, because the sole is stiffer than regular shoes which makes for better pedaling. Mountain style is good because they are walkable but there are some skate style ones and Keen makes cycling sandals.

This is really helpful. Generally, when or why would there be an advantage to use a road bike / city bike vs. a mountain bike or hybrid? It sounds like, considering my the climb home, a hybrid or mountain bike may be better suited for my needs due to the gearing. So in what situation would someone choose a road bike over a mountain bike? Are road bikes generally more comfortable? Faster?

More fun, faster, quicker to make fast maneuvers. For me it's easier to ride a road bike longer distances.

Also they're generally lighter, at least once past the entry level road bike.

Some entry level road bikes come with the mtb gearing. Technically you'd call them hybrids for that fact and those tend to be heavier, but they still have the road bike geometry and feel, just not as "snappy".

Mountain bikes have low low gearing, the lowest of any style of bike, good for a steep hill. They have big tires which give a soft ride. Modern, good mountain bikes usually have an oil-damped suspension fork, and to get that you need to shell out about $500 for a budget brand or more for a premium brand. Most of them will now have disk brakes, the better ones have hydraulic disk brakes. There are several different styles of mountain bike but the type you see commuting is almost always a "sport" bike which is almost the same thing as a cross country bike, only cheaper and heavier. Mountain bikes have some disadvantages on the road, chiefly their knobby tires but also their weight and suspension. Most of their advantages on pavement are also shared with "fitness hybrid" style bikes, which have larger wheels, in-between size tires, and usually no suspension, but have gearing nearly as low and about the same posture.

My take:

1. You really won't figure out what you like and don't like until you try a few different arrangements. So, don't drop a lot of money on your first bike -- you probably won't keep it very long. Buy something used that you can easily re-sell for the same price. I'd recommend keeping it under $300.

2. Keep in mind that "road," "hybrid," and "mountain" are marketing terms -- what you need to think about are A) the frame geometry that fits your body best (see point #1 ) and B) the features you want.

3. For a city commute with big hills, I'd want a bike with derailleurs (not an internally-geared hub), low gears (1:1 ratio or lower), and smooth tires. You could accomplish that in a couple of ways, but I'd say that the easiest would be to get either a hybrid or an MTB that has the gear ratios you want, and then put slick city tires on it (probably skinnier than what came with it). Tires make a huge difference; riding knobby MTB or hybrid tires on pavement is a real drag.

4. A rear rack is a must. Depending on how much stuff you need to carry and what the theft situation is like where you park, I'd recommend either panniers or (even better) Wald folding grocery baskets. The Wald baskets are heavy, but they make it easy to carry lots of stuff. You definitely don't want to be using a backpack -- bad for sweat, bad for balance.

5. Good rechargeable lights. I'm a fan of Cygolite, but others are good, too. You should be able to get a decent set for around $50.

6. You'll soon find yourself thinking about what kind of handlebars work for you. Many people find the flat MTB style, with your hands perpendicular to the direction you're traveling, pretty uncomfortable. In the city, I'd recommend upright bars that put your hands either parallel, or at a 45-degree angle to it --butterfly, moustache, albatross, North Road, and porteur are a few of the styles you might try out.

Lots of good used bike on Craiglist. I commute on a steel bike - 1986 Centurion Ironman. It was $200. I put another $200 in to tune and clean it up. Rides smoother than my Carbon fiber Cross bike. As far a gear ratios I'm running 13-24 (6 speed) in the back and 52/34 in the front. I live in a hilly area with a 4.5 mile commute one way and it's a work out coming home uphill. Hope this helps.

Short answer: I'd recommend a hybrid for commutes shorter than 10 km. Rigid fork hybrid with room for 42 mm wide (studded :) ) tyres, mudguards and rack mounts.

Road bike VS a hybrid:

More prone position - so you are more aero. That means faster on flats.
A wee bit lighter - if you are fit and don't carry much stuff on the bike, road bike will climb a few percent faster than a hybrid. Gains are measurable with a stopwatch.
Less room for mudguards, usually no mounting points for racks.
A bit more expensive groupset - STIs especially, in case they get broken/damaged.


My favourite bike is a hybrid with drop bars added (like a road bike handlebar), but I often travel 30 km in a day. For city riding and shorter commutes and as a winter hack I have an old rigid MTB (though a hybrid would be better).

You should go to Topanga Creek Outpost. They are a serious Surly dealer and they rent bikes. I'd recommend a second hand Pacer and have the bike shop tune it up and advise you. Some days you won't want a workout on the way home and a granny gear will be welcome.

Lots of good advice here because of the experience. Smatterings of preferences too! Like Nike, just do it.
I agree with most of the point Brainic what ever stated a couple of posts up.

1. The right size that will allow you to get to the right fit. This means you will have to find the right location for the saddle and handle bars.
2. Gearing - to get you back home
3. visibility - lights so you won't get hit as easily.

You didn't state if you had any biking experience in your past. If you do, that is great! I was a pretty intense rider in my early 20's then went nearly 30 years without really riding. At the time, we lived on a hill with a section of the road that had a 20% climb. I died trying to get up it on my 30 year old race bike, 39/21 was my low gear! For the first year, I used my MTB with road slicks. That got me into shape to the point where I could ride my race bike up the hill, newspaper boy approach.

The point is that everything changes as you do it. You get stronger, the bike becomes familiar. You find that what you thought you needed, you don't and what you didn't think you needed, you do! Gotta start somewhere, the basics is the best place.

Do you plan on doing any other riding than commuting?

OK we need some pics on this thread!

This is what I started commuting on in 2008. The picture is what I sometimes use today. I have over 3000 miles on this bike and just replaced the chain and rear block (cassette). It is my "truck" and my choice for bad weather.
[IMG]https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2828/...807c56fe_b.jpg1997 Specialized RockHopper, on Flickr[/IMG]

I have since moved to a flatter location across the country and now have nearly 2000 miles on this bike I commute with.
[IMG]https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2929/...8b5a4242_b.jpg1991 Pinarello Montello 60 cm, on Flickr[/IMG]

With the RockHopper I can haul a lot of stuff, even with those smallish "Panniers". I take clothes to work on one day to cover a week or so. Then I can take the Pinarello the rest of the week. I use a backpack on the Pin and don't like it being there but I like riding the Pin more than the RockHopper! There is about 3 MPH difference in my 11 mile commute.

Oh and BTW. I believe I paid nearly $400 for the RockHopper in 1997, new last year model. I bought the Pinarello last year, for under $500 on CL. This picture is after tearing it down lubing and cleaning. New cables and bar tape is all that is different from purchase.
And the difference in weight? With all accessories removed from both, there is a 6 lb difference, RH at 27 and the PM at 21.

That Pinny's a beaut!!!

Which reminds me, I've got to get my new-to-me Look AL 384 out of the garage, tear it down and clean and grease it before the summer starts (I know, a long time but I'm new at this stuff and will need time to do it).