caloso

I don't think anyone has said this. Nor has anyone said that you shouldn't ride your ebike to work.

mcours2006

I disagree with both of those statements. I've been on this board for little over 18 months and don't find that attitude to be prevalent. Sure there maybe be a vocal few who would espouse those types of silly ideas, but I find the Commuting subforum to be nothing but supportive and inclusive over all.

Kindaslow

I think, percentage wise, that the commuter group is one of the more supportive groups. And, at my age, the elite athlete was more than a few years ago. From what I see of commuters, I see a lot of folks that are in good shape, but not necessarily the extreme of the cyclists.

noglider 

Well, the more specialized a special interest group gets, the deeper the wedges between the small fractions becomes. This is not just true with cyclists. It's also true of Renaissance music experts, knife collectors, knitters, whoever.

bmthom.gis

Sailing....drift...I see what you did there.

tjspiel

The first subforum I spent a lot of time on was C&V. I had been using my MTB to ride a mile to a train station, then another mile after I got off the train to the office. Then my brothers and I along with my wife decided to do a triathlon. I took my old steel road bike down from the garage and we got another old road bike from Craigslist for my wife. Instead of riding just to the train station, I started riding all the way to the office to help with training. This was almost 10 years ago.

C&V was very helpful to me in getting those bikes in ship shape and deciding what upgrades would be worthwhile. After that triathlon I caught the bug. I started doing group rides and more intense training. I decided that I needed a more modern road bike to help me be more competitive. So I bought a newish but used, fairly low end road bike from a major brand and made some upgrades.

Riding the whole distance to work (not all that far really) was now a permanent change so I started participating in the commuting forum. I was shocked at the anti-road bike sentiment that seemed to me to be pervasive. It was like aluminum/CF frames and spandex were the work of the devil. Further the "sport" aspects of cycling were often mentioned as a reason why more people don't commute by bike, - which didn't make sense to me. In my case, it was the sport aspect that got me to commute more regularly.

After awhile I sensed a shift in the tone of the commuting forum, though there was still a very strong anti-roadie sentiment among some. Lately I've begun to wonder if there was really any change at all. Maybe the only difference is my perception.

I look at your post and it's almost as if you've gotten the exact opposite perception while participating in the same group. Interesting.

The other interesting thing looking back was that it was kind of hard selling my old ride bike and commuting on the new one. Not because the old one was a nicer commuter, but because in a way a felt like I was being a traitor to my C&V roots.

Anyway, there are probably as many people in this group that feel my road bike isn't a "real commuter" as there people in the forum who think e-bikes aren't "real bikes". Most folks though probably have more nuanced opinions or just don't care.

israel816

Personally, I think a little ability-based snobbery is ok. I understand in the continuum of cyclering fitness and skill, I'm much closer to an obese couch potato than I am to a pro bike racer. I am not willing to sacrifice a huge amount of time for training, and I'm damn sure not going to modify my diet so as to be in better shape. So those fit guys at the bike shop group ride are 'better' than me, in this specific sense, and I'm cool with that. Just like someone who is good at a musical instrument, or making money, is 'better' in those ways.


But if the 'better' person is a dick about it, they're still a dick. Like most things in life, no one is going to feel the need to point out they're better than you unless they feel insecure about themselves.


However the snobbery of not having the 'right' bike or gear (right usually being code for EXPENSIVE), can kiss both sides of my ass.

So if I show up to a bike shop group ride, they can infer by my clothes and equipment that I probably can't sustain their 30mph pace for 50 miles. (Is that how fast/far those people ride? I have no idea? ) I may decide they were snobbing on my bike and clothes, and not that my slowness.

That sort of snobbery is 1) relatively inconsequential, and 2) easily avoidable.

If it spreads to bike riding at large, thereby keeping new people from getting on bikes, that's more problematic. The more people on bikes, the greater political influence we have. More influence (at least in the US) means better laws and less car-centric city planning.

fietsbob

Nope , Small town on a river with Fish in it, and its Crabbing season Now .

caloso

Re snobbery:

It's seems funny, and maybe a bit counterintuitve, but in my experience there's not a lot of equipment snobbery toward commuters and utility riders from guys who race at high levels. Many of them commute themselves and have a beater or two in the garage. They spend a lot of time in the saddle and just love riding in general. So long as you're not doing something dangerous or stupid, you're okay. The higher up the ladder you go, the more latent Fredness comes out for training and commuting: mismatched kit, fenders, lights, frame pumps, saddle bags, and 32 spoke training wheels.

Rather, the gear snobbery seems to come more from the guys (pretty much always middle-aged guys) who have recently taken it up, have bought all the best equipment they can afford, and probably have a bit of self-consciousness about it.

At least that's been my observation in Sacramento and other parts of NorCal.

cruiserhead

That's pretty accurate all around. SOmetimes the mamil enthusiasm is directed the wrong way.
Anyone who does a lot of racing, and especially pros, don't care at all from my experience.

InTheRain

Since I only have a road bike and an e-bike, I guess not a commuter at all. I seem to get to work on two wheels everyday.

InTheRain

Maybe you get a patch, I don't remember. I don't do the ride for the patch or the jacket - just to challenge myself... nobody else. Now that I've done it, the only reason I would do it again is to be with friends that want to do it. People have different reasons for doing it, but if it's to compare yourself to others, you're in the wrong event. How do you cheat if it's not a competition? You can only cheat yourself in this type of an event. If you completed what you set out to do... you succeeded - whether it's on a unicycle, a road bike, an e-bike, a car, or a plane... it's your goal, not anyone else's goal.

mcours2006

That's kind of my sentiment as well, but not necessarily from the point of view of cycling. It makes me think of a a golfing buddy I've played with who was a scratch player, but had these 30 year old clubs with the ratty grips and a bag straight from a garage sale. But boy could he play. OTOH, I've played with guys who've top of the line equipment, matching clothes, the sunglasses worn on the back of the head (c'mon!), ProV1 balls, etc., but struggled to break 100 on a good day. They talk like they can play. The dress like they can play. They watch the Golf Channel and have subscription to Golf Digest.

Is there some equipment snobbery? Sure, but only against those guys who have lesser equipment AND who struggle to break 110.

tjspiel

But you did it for the challenge right? If someone's not up for attempting to do 200 miles, or riding all the way across Iowa under their own power, IMO they're in the wrong event. There are plenty of events that entail riding shorter distances.

By entering an event like Ragbrai, an e-bike rider is taking a spot from someone who wanted to try to go the whole distance. What I find bothersome is that finishing without a motor is attainable for just about anyone in good health who puts some time and effort into training along with the ride itself. You don't need a motor.

I don't know about STP, but if the number of participants are limited I'd personally feel bad about using an e-bike just so I could hang out with my friends while they're doing the ride. I don't belong there. Besides, wouldn't it really be that much more meaningful if you're sharing their struggles along with their accomplishments?

And yes, I'm applying my values to these scenarios. Someone else's may be different.

InTheRain

I did the STP for my challenge. I don't expect my challenge to be the same as someone else's challenge. I'm fine with an event not allowing e-bikes... or mountain bikes. If a bike isn't excluded then it doesn't matter what kind of bike it is. Most rides have a limit, but until those rides sell out in a day or two after registration opens up, everybody has an opportunity to get in. We have rides in this area that are selected by lottery... the RAMROD (Ride Around Mt. Rainier One Day.) I don't know if that ride excludes any specific type of bicycle, but it's long enough and has enough climbing that there is no way an e-bike is going to be able to execute the distance on a battery... and, I believe that private support on those roads is nearly impossible.

A ride like the STP...sure, a person could have someone haul 8 extra batteries in a car for him so he could finish with the assistance of a motor. However, I gotta tell you ... I have some admiration for a guy that will dump that kind of money, planning, and commitment into finishing an STP. i'm only worried about me finishing.

350htrr

As an owner of an E-Assist bike, I must say that... NO, Race/Endurance, events meant for bicycle's are NOT meant for E-Bikes... JMO. Legal E-Assist bikes are meant for people who need/want some assistance for riding a bike for whatever reason, and ASSIST is the operative word here... BUT, seems like (to me) E-Bikes are more for people who want to go faster, Pedal less, sweat less, but accomplish more, and really should be riding a moped, and are not a bicyclist at heart, but want to get around the laws... And want the benefits of not being a motor vehicle so lets pretend to be a bike.. JMO

wphamilton

Wow. You and Robert C and ITR are making me want one. Do they make 1K watt front hub motor e-assists?

350htrr

Ah, No. E-Assist bikes normally top out at about 500Watts max. But front hub motors normally top out at about 350Watts, because of safety concerns about the torque becoming too much for the forks and snapping them off. Can you find one? Sure, but it would be an E-Bike, not legal, and not nessesarially as safe as one would want.

roashru

it would be nice to have an ultra light bicycle with an aero helmet but then you cant carry much.

Moe Zhoost

Egocentric human nature is an unending source of amusement to me. When I ride my recumbent trike, I mentally make fun of those on two wheels. When I ride my fredly commuter, I roll my eyes at kitted-out carbonophilics. When I ride my old steel single speed, I wonder how crazy it is to opt for gears.

But after 30 minutes in the saddle (whichever) , I mellow out and tie into the universal vibe of cyclisity where all flavors of bikes (and trikes) meld into a warm feeling of just being where I am.

InTheRain

I'm sure the organizers of any bike event that doesn't exclude any bicycle would allow any vehicle that is classified as a bicycle, by law, to be ridden. There are sections of the STP that are ridden in dedicated bike lanes as well as an MUP - I would think whatever you are riding would have to be legal to use those facilities... and there are no gas powered vehicles that are allowed in bike lanes or MUP's per Washington State law - so the vehicle in your picture... outta luck. But a legal e-bike... it's fine.

You see, in a society that is governed by laws, it is the law that defines a bicycle, not what one specific individual feels is a bicycle. Now an event can exclude certain types of legal bicycles from participating, I don't have a problem with that... and many do. However, if it's not a race and all bicycles by legal definition are welcome, then nobody should have a complaint. As for me, I probably wouldn't complain about any vehicle as long as it didn't endanger me or any other rider - enforcement is up to the organizers. I'm not going to show up to a distance or endurance event on an e-bike, but I'm not going to say anything about someone that does.