It's not about the handling being bad. Especially with lighter loads. It's just... less good, for lack of a better term, than midsize front loads on many bikes. A probably even better way to describe it is that it's just *different*, not better or worse. For me, once I start loading some six packs, or anything else in the 5+ pound range on rear racks, I just really start noticing the weight balance. Bikes are already biased towards the rear, throwing a bunch of cargo even more off to the rear, especially behind the axle, makes the front end really twitchy and light feeling but without actually handling fast.

Meanwhile throwing that weight over the front, especially if you can get it low and in line with the axle, or more central also has an effect. And it's an even more immediate effect, you feel the steering resisting just that bit more from the start. However once at speed I feel much more stable, planted, and that the handling is more like it *should* be. I found that once I was used to the initial resistance, the ride was much more pleasant. But that's not to say I feel rear loads are wrong or bad, just slightly less preferable in the low-mid weight range.

Just to get even more nitpicky, though, I feel like if I had the choice between really loading a bunch of weight on only one rack, I'd rather overload the rear than the front... haha

Yeah, he's like me......getting old...15 years now and vet said he is truly a senor citizen. First time we ever had him out on an all day ride away from home we came back to the motel exhausted, ate dinner and went to bed. At 2 am he began barking furiously and I was instantly awake trying to calm him and keep from getting booted from the motel when I realized the TV was on fire and dense, black smoke bellowing out from the burning plastic. Smoke about 2 feet thick covered the entire ceiling of the room. I'm convinced that as tired as we were, we would have died in our sleep from smoke inhalation had not Lucky Dog awakened us.

In planning a front loading bike, people choose a lower Trail in the fork rake.

30th post that is a reproduction of Jim Blackburn's racks made from the 70's

... & by many copiers.

Aw, so touching. You are the lucky ones. Hope you will have him with you for many more years.

Thanks, that should do the trick.

I've used front and rear racks extensively and prefer to carry most loads in the back. For me, loads on the front seem to affect handling more adversely and also block my view of the front wheel and tire. Perhaps my bikes were not designed for carrying front loads. My touring bike had a Nitto M12 front rack for many years and I rarely used it for reasons mentioned above. I finally removed it when I installed a dynamo wheel and light and haven't missed it, as I mainly used it as a place to mount my LED headlight. I also had a Salsa Casseroll for several years that came with a front rack, which I only used a few times, such as carrying light packages to the post office.

I do use a small front handlebar bag on bike tours. I also have a front pannier and rack that I use for heavy loaded touring when I need to distribute weight better across the bike. But for general use and commuting, front racks are not for me.

I got around this using a lowrider front rack--has an arch above the wheel perfect for mounting a light.

Agreed. I haven't tried a frame-mounted front rack, but in my experience, anything more than a couple of pounds in a bar/fork-mounted front rack will cause dangerous steering difficulties. Weight should go on the back, and as low as possible.

A frame mounted rack Our-products | Steco B.V. on your DL-1 would carry an amazing amount of weight with little effect, and more comfortably than on the back.

Here's the same rack on my Gazelle.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=498527

Meh...
http://images0.tcdn.nl/incoming/arti...sSchuurman.jpg

That should be at least 80 pounds in the front. Just don't corner too quickly. :P

That's a sweet set-up, kickstart. Did you buy the rack in the US, or NL?

My favorite on line retailer, the NL equivalent of Niagara, http://en.hollandbikeshop.com/?currency=USD

Shipping is a flat $35, but is often made up by their prices, and carry many items unobtainable at any price in the US.

That's right, but I find a flat platform, CETMA-style, more versatile than panniers (I assume you use those) for urban load carrying like big cardboard boxes, especially with flat handlebar and a short stem. Front panniers look great for touring, but my fork doesn't have mountings for a lowrider.

Fair enough. I've never even thought of that.

Yes, it does. But not necessarily for the worse. I have found there are situation where heavily loaded panniers on LowRiders have been the difference between unridable and rideable. Over snow and ice, over angled railroad tracks. In situations like these, the loaded LowRiders are a huge benefit. Obviously I don't make a point of seeking out angled tracks but in my Ann Arbor winters, I used to carry heavy books I didn't need into campus just for the aid to handling.

One of the pluses of LowRiders is that when climbing out of the saddle, the bike handles and feels virtually like the unloaded bike, just a lot more work. No frame flexing, no needing to fight the handlebars to control the bike.

Steering is slower and bikes with less trail (more fork rake and or steeper head angles) are better for regular use with LowRiders. (When I say LowRider, I am including all the copies.)

Ben

After months on tour a bike without 4 panniers feels odd.

[MENTION=266503]JaccoW[/MENTION], that's the cutest thing I've seen all day. Can I carry a young sweetie like that, too?

One nice thing about having your shtuff in the front is that you can see it and reach for it when riding.

I have a frame mounted steco (Azor/Steco Pickup frame mounting front rack) on my Opafiets with a small wood crate stuck to it. As mentioned previously, frame mounted handles loads much more comfortably than bar or fork mounted and a load up front is a bit better than in back (though this may be personal opinion).

Even so I still kind of prefer nothing up front so for lighter stuff I just use the rear rack and have a small wood crate for there as well that I can just throw my computer bag in. This works well on a step-thru like an opafiets or Gr8 but might be a problem for some people getting on a step-over.

I'm currently ghetto mounting my rear panniers under my VO Porteur rack. While not as optimal as lowriders, it's still nice to get some essentials down low underneath, while being able to strap bigger/bulkier items up top. Need to fab up the mounts on my bags a bit so they can drop down a few inches, since the rigid back of the pannier currently sticks above the flat rack by 2-3 inches. I've also found it easier to "overload" on heavier stuff. Even it out by throwing a six pack each underneath, and strap the other two up top, and the handling is better than stacking all four up top, in addition to my lock and other gear...

http://i.imgur.com/1FZkrAC.jpg

Whether having a load on the front works well depends on the design of the bike and the preference of the rider. If you haven't tried it, you might think it's a terrible idea. For many, it works just fine, even a gigantic load. Some people have tried it and found it to work badly but they tried it on a bike that doesn't like front loads. You need the right kind of bike, and I can't say exactly what that is.

Long ago, I made a commuter bike out of an old 1970s Motobecane Nomad frameset. I noticed it rode BETTER when it had a front load on it. I can't explain that.

I've seen the pure rando blog guys say the same thing about their favorite frames, that loading up a handlebar bag on the right bike makes it handle better. I'll have to feel it to believe it.

That said, I really don't think it's ALL in the bike, I think a good amount is in the head. I'm pretty sure I could take a lot of guys in here who say front loads ride like crap, and let them ride bikes that *I* feel ride better with front loads versus back, and they wouldn't change their tune. Because both change handling, and if you're used to the dead weight in the back feel with a misleadingly responsive front end (which doesn't actually make bike handling more responsive) you'll probably stick with it. I still feel that on the right bike, not only a low-mid trail rando bike though, that the handling is much preferable, but it does have a much more noticeable starting feel with that weight up front. Once you are used to needing to make those slightly heavier inputs though, you find it's extremely responsive and the back end acts like it should.

I prefer the front rack because I can watch the load fly off the bike.

I had my daily bike set up the same way, and I've used the front rack..once? I need a strap to keep anything on it, and then while I can keep an eye on something getting loose, I don't want it to fall into the chain/wheel. Imagining a jacket falling off into my rear wheel..

That said, I do have a fixed gear with a basket on it, and it's fantastic. I ride 18 miles each way, so the upright position is kinda tough for that ride, but for short 2-5 mile rides, I love having the basket. It adds some versatility to it, and I have a cargo net that goes over it to keep everything in line. It gets mocked a bit, but it always ends up that someone asks to put a purse in it or a jacket.

I have a front basket and rear rack. On another bike I had a front and rear rack, then later swapped to front basket.

I love over the front basket, holds my purse easily, though I want a slightly bigger basket and haven't found the right one yet. Once the load is over 7-10 pounds I prefer it in the back.

Porteur racks are cool but not practical for me. You need a strap and the right kind of bag.

i love my basket because the essentials are right in front. And if I get hot I have a place to put my coat/scarf/gloves. I also have basket panniers and bag panniers to use too for the rear.