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I cautiously head to the front of the line, where everyone can see me and judge how fast I am traveling as I proceed through the turn. Typically, I act as a crossing guard here, too, directing the cars to pass me, assuring them that I can see them and will not make any dangerous, unexpected moves.
I absolutely HATE when motorcyclists do this, but they are typically traveling at the same speed as automobiles, so there's no good reason. |
Usually I'll get behind a car turning left to let them break the way. And I'll stand while pedaling to create a more noticeable profile. Not a big deal with most ordinary four way intersections, but my area has a couple of starfish intersections with five or more possible paths, so following a lead car helps establish my direction more clearly for other drivers.
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Originally Posted by rmfnla
(Post 18531387)
I firmly believe in NOT taking place in line; always thought that's a good way to get rear-ended.
I go to the front on the right side of the left turn lane and wait slightly in front of the first car. I also signal my intention to turn. If the oncoming driver is too stupid to deal with that hopefully they will figure it out after I've made the turn and the world hasn't ended... |
Originally Posted by aERonAUtical96
(Post 18531063)
So I've had this happen a couple times now so I'm curious what others do. Approaching a red light with cars and I am turning left. Normally I lane split to get to the front. I proceed on the green arrow. The cars across the intersection tend to "freeze" when they see me take off... they think I'm going straight even tho I'm in the left turn lane. If I notice them, I will give a signal that I'm going left.
My question/thought... do you head to the front of the line? Do you tuck in behind the first or 2nd car? Do you just get in position wherever it happens to be? I'm thinking of stopping myself from moving to the front of the line if I'm turning. By sitting behind a car or two, I guess I get a little protection and if I take off I can sit on their bumper until I get through the turn. Opinions?
Originally Posted by rmfnla
(Post 18531387)
I firmly believe in NOT taking place in line; always thought that's a good way to get rear-ended.
I go to the front on the right side of the left turn lane and wait slightly in front of the first car. I also signal my intention to turn. If the oncoming driver is too stupid to deal with that hopefully they will figure it out after I've made the turn and the world hasn't ended... 1) you can't accelerate as fast as car can, which puts you in the middle of a traffic line with which you cannot keep pace. This is dangerous and pisses people off, leading to like aggressive/punish passing by dumbasses on their way to Starbucks. That is, unless you live in Oregon...nicest drivers I've ever encountered were in around Bend and also Coos Bay. 2) cycling in traffic on the hope that stupid drivers will just "figure it out" is asking for trouble. You should ride proactively and defensively. |
Originally Posted by Darth Lefty
(Post 18532045)
Lane splitting or filtering is not legal most places in the States. Here in California it is legal between dotted line traffic lanes, but going up the side of a left turn lane counts as passing on the right and is illegal.
I always split, riding the paintstripe between the forward-going lanes and the left-turn lanes. I position myself forward of all cars, at the front of the crosswalk, straight ahead of the lane line. There always seems to be plenty of room for me to turn way wider than left-turning cars, and not get close to oncoming left-turning cars. |
Originally Posted by RubeRad
(Post 18538574)
Really? I've only ever heard that lane-splitting is legal in CA (for bikes and motorcycles)
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I had a conversation with a taxi driver about filtering this morning, but dealing with right turns. He was curious who would be at fault if a cyclist rolled up on the right of a right turning car and got hit. I told him it is a real gray area that I don't think it's legal but there is nothing really saying you can't filter either.
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Originally Posted by joeyduck
(Post 18538921)
I had a conversation with a taxi driver about filtering this morning, but dealing with right turns. He was curious who would be at fault if a cyclist rolled up on the right of a right turning car and got hit. I told him it is a real gray area that I don't think it's legal but there is nothing really saying you can't filter either.
This is also why it's not really safe to be in a bike lane zooming past stopped traffic. If you do so, you have to be on high alert for potentially turning cars. Don't let the paint think for you. |
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
(Post 18531818)
Personally I get as close to the intersection as possible. I'll wait behind the very first car but not directly behind. I'm always a little to the right. Even in fairly bike friendly Portland, if you are fifth person in line you are not going to make it through the intersection. The car behind you will be convinced that he could have made it if you weren't in his way. I've been screamed at, cussed out, horned, everything but hit, by drivers losing it as the signal times out. If I'm not in their way, its on them as to why they didn't make it through.
It's not something I do, just curious. |
Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94
(Post 18538942)
That's the problem with many edge bike lanes, because they lead many cyclists to do exactly that. In 49 states, motorists are also required to turn right from as near to the curb as practicable to help prevent passing on the right (which is why most bike lanes have dashed lines near intersections). Oregon is the one state that does NOT allow cars to merge into bike lanes near right turns. Oregon law basically wants cyclists to get right-hooked.
This is also why it's not really safe to be in a bike lane zooming past stopped traffic. If you do so, you have to be on high alert for potentially turning cars. Don't let the paint think for you. |
Originally Posted by joeyduck
(Post 18538963)
I agree and told him I always tried to hang to the left of the right most lane to help turners. I also said it's a bad way to be passing drivers and it would likely be the cyclists fault. Here sometimes it's hard to get to the right most edge when turning since there is always parked cars and then there is the natural gap getting along side them then trying to head into the right turn. Leaving an opening for cyclists to try to get by and using an Idaho stop while not being aware.
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Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94
(Post 18538962)
Why wait behind the 1st car? Why not wait in front of, and to the right of, the 1st car waiting to turn left? Either way you could swing wide and let other cars turn left as you head for the right side of the receiving road. Of course that assumes there's a place for you on the receiving road, either a separate travel lane or a bike lane.
It's not something I do, just curious. |
Originally Posted by fietsbob
(Post 18531318)
On The right side & Turning Left ? striped Bike lane on the street? You still can Be right Hooked
By Trucks as soon as the light turns If they dont look for YOU. In My Small town I was given a PD warning to not ride the cross walk with the green light . so I took up turning Right making a 180 'U-ey' then crossing with the green in the traffic lane .. Heavy traffic? Octogenarian Geriatric Florida drivers? Use the Square Corner Left ... green light, wait for it. stop on the far side of the street wait for the Green Light on that cross street , Then GO . |
Originally Posted by jfowler85
(Post 18535547)
...you can't accelerate as fast as car can, which puts you in the middle of a traffic line with which you cannot keep pace.
But maintaining that speed is another thing. Usually by the time I've reached the other side of the intersection most drivers are passing me. The point is, I don't find it unsafe to take the lane for a left turn, either from the front of the lane if I happened to get there first, or behind a lead car. As I noted before, in busy traffic and complex intersections I prefer to get behind the first or second car in the left turn lane and let them break the path. As I complete the turn safely the flow of traffic is beginning to pick up speed and I'll merge toward the right to minimize delaying cars behind me. But often I need to brake or pedal less aggressively, because the cars in front aren't going as fast as I'd prefer. |
Originally Posted by jfowler85
(Post 18535547)
This is wrong. You need to be well aware of the entire intersection going in, ie before you get there, and conspicuously signal with your entire arm for everyone to see. I also filter to the front if I'm more than 2 cars back; when I get to the front I stick my lanky arm out to the left and repeat that again right before the light turns. Drivers will freak out if they don't know what you're doing, and the last thing you want is someone behaving erratically because they assume you are going to do something stupid.
2 problems here: 1) you can't accelerate as fast as car can, which puts you in the middle of a traffic line with which you cannot keep pace. This is dangerous and pisses people off, leading to like aggressive/punish passing by dumbasses on their way to Starbucks. That is, unless you live in Oregon...nicest drivers I've ever encountered were in around Bend and also Coos Bay. 2) cycling in traffic on the hope that stupid drivers will just "figure it out" is asking for trouble. You should ride proactively and defensively. First, remember that we are turning left here. I am in front of everyone between the left turn and straight lanes; when the light changes I make the left alongside the car next to me that is also turning left. At no time am I in front of anyone. Second, the OP mentioned cars that "freeze" because they don't 'get" what he is doing, even with a signal. My point is after they see my turn perhaps they will figure it out, but by that time I am long gone. FWIW, I've been doing this for over 40 years, about 1500 commuter miles last year alone (in L.A.!) with no problems. Safe, proactive and defensive, every time... |
Originally Posted by Slaninar
(Post 18531089)
I usually wait behind one car. If I'm first, I make room for a car to pass me (while waiting, not when it's green). That way I don't slow anybody down. I stay behind the first car, in the right side of the left turning lane. That way I can go parallel with the car if they start too slow.
Otherwise, if i am the only vehicle making a left-turn i use arm-signals to communicate my intent to the on-coming, left-turn driver(s)/traffic. |
Originally Posted by alan s
(Post 18531971)
Going to the front is following the same rules. They pass you, you pass them. No rule says passing a car or bike in the same lane as you is wrong. Why wait behind cars if they are stopped? Seems pointless.
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
(Post 18532031)
Applying that to bikes isnt unreasonable.
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Originally Posted by aERonAUtical96
(Post 18531063)
My question/thought... do you head to the front of the line? Do you tuck in behind the first or 2nd car? Do you just get in position wherever it happens to be? I'm thinking of stopping myself from moving to the front of the line if I'm turning. By sitting behind a car or two, I guess I get a little protection and if I take off I can sit on their bumper until I get through the turn.
Opinions? One final note: I am a fast rider and my acceleration from stopped is the same as a car in city traffic, and I can get up to 20+MPH in a couple of heartbeats. So I am not overly concerned about "blocking" any motorists behind me in a city grid (where I do the bulk of my commuting).
Originally Posted by grolby
(Post 18539757)
This. Waiting in line is both pointless and more likely incur delays.
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Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94
(Post 18538962)
Why wait behind the 1st car? Why not wait in front of, and to the right of, the 1st car waiting to turn left? Either way you could swing wide and let other cars turn left as you head for the right side of the receiving road. Of course that assumes there's a place for you on the receiving road, either a separate travel lane or a bike lane.
It's not something I do, just curious. |
Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94
(Post 18538962)
Why wait behind the 1st car? Why not wait in front of, and to the right of, the 1st car waiting to turn left? Either way you could swing wide and let other cars turn left as you head for the right side of the receiving road. Of course that assumes there's a place for you on the receiving road, either a separate travel lane or a bike lane.
It's not something I do, just curious. Always ride in traffic, although bicycles aren't allowed to use car roads where there are separate bicycle lanes. The reason I chose to ride and find it safer in car roads is for another topic, but I'm happy to say that riding the way I do - no riders honk me, can't remember the last time anyone did. So I guess it's not bothering anyone too much. Just stay visible, predictable and get out of the way when It's safer/smarter, while taking the lane when that is the smart option. |
My main problem with filtering is that you invariably force motorists who have already passed you, to pass you again. That can absolutely trigger rage among some people. Unless of course it's backed up for miles and there's no chance of any car passing you again. But that's why I prefer to take my place in line most of the time. Cars arriving after me (behind me) have not passed me before, so there's none of that "dammit I just passed that guy!!" feelings.
Cyclists don't like slower cyclists to jump ahead of them at stop lights, causing delays for other cyclists who have to pass them again. It's not very courteous to do the same to motorists, either. |
Heavily dependent on the circumstances. If there is no right turn lane and just a bike lane or shoulder I'll filter up to the front. If there is a right turn lane then I don't want to pull out into potential traffic just to cut back into the straight lane. If the road is a high-speed road and the cars will pass me immediately then I'll wait in line. If it's a dense urban intersection then I'll pull to the front since car/bike speed is not too different in my city. If the cars decided to pass me right before the light then I'll pass them since I want to mess with them. There are infinite scenarios, but it's interesting to hear how others do this. Good question.
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Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94
(Post 18543736)
Cyclists don't like slower cyclists to jump ahead of them at stop lights, causing delays for other cyclists who have to pass them again. It's not very courteous to do the same to motorists, either.
Some just don't have a clue how they effect others. |
I do like several others have mentioned - go to the right of the left turn lane just in front of the first car. In my experience if I'm there first (and on the right) the first car usually stops to the left and just behind me - I'm sure so they can keep an eye on me. I can turn left without slowing any of the cars down by keeping to the outside of the turn. And nobody has to get around me again as I ride on roads with shoulders.
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Originally Posted by ARenko
(Post 18543975)
I do like several others have mentioned - go to the right of the left turn lane just in front of the first car. In my experience if I'm there first (and on the right) the first car usually stops to the left and just behind me - I'm sure so they can keep an eye on me. I can turn left without slowing any of the cars down by keeping to the outside of the turn. And nobody has to get around me again as I ride on roads with shoulders.
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