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My tire tube repairs never work. What am I doing wrong?

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My tire tube repairs never work. What am I doing wrong?

Old 02-23-16, 11:21 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Since you are putting the tube back in the tire, the pressure in the tube will press on the patch harder than just about anything you care to use to put pressure on the patch. For mountain bike tires, that pressure is about 50 pounds per square inch and for road bikes anywhere from 70 to 120 pounds per square inch. You really can't put more pressure on it that is more evenly distributed.
I agree with most of your points, but not this. If you put the patched tube down on a smooth surface and press it down with the roller I posted above, assuming your hand and arm put the equivalent of 25 lbs of weight on the tool, and that weight is concentrated on an area something like 0.01 square inches, so that's ... what, maybe 2500 psi? Obviously that's a very rough guess, but way more than the air pressure of a fully inflated tube.
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Old 02-23-16, 11:34 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
I find that attempting to patch a partially inflated tube isn't a good practice. The rubber under the patch is stretched and, when the pressure is released, the tube will pucker under the patch. If the patch hasn't bonded, the puckers lead to leaks. If the leak is large enough, it may even form bubbles under the patch when you put the patch in place. I get better results by patching the tube without air in it.
I disagree. If the tube is overinflated when you patch it, which is easy to do, then this could be an issue. But putting in enough air to allow the tube to hold its shape gives better results. Otherwise, the area under the patch would be stretched when inflated, resulting in premature failure.
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Old 02-23-16, 11:50 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
I agree with most of your points, but not this. If you put the patched tube down on a smooth surface and press it down with the roller I posted above, assuming your hand and arm put the equivalent of 25 lbs of weight on the tool, and that weight is concentrated on an area something like 0.01 square inches, so that's ... what, maybe 2500 psi? Obviously that's a very rough guess, but way more than the air pressure of a fully inflated tube.
The problem is that you are putting pressure on only a small area of the patch but not the rest of the patch. In the tire, the pressure is even and consistent across the whole patch.

Originally Posted by alan s View Post
I disagree. If the tube is overinflated when you patch it, which is easy to do, then this could be an issue. But putting in enough air to allow the tube to hold its shape gives better results. Otherwise, the area under the patch would be stretched when inflated, resulting in premature failure.
A tube inside a tire doesn't stretch that much, certainly not as much as a tube can stretch outside of a tire. The other part of the problem is how much is a tube "overinflated" outside of the tire? Any inflation over the nominal size of the tire is stretching the tube greater than it will be inside the tire. In other words, it's very easy to have a 25 mm tube stretched to 35mm or more with just a tiny amount of air in the tube.
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Old 02-23-16, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by alan s View Post
I disagree. If the tube is overinflated when you patch it, which is easy to do, then this could be an issue. But putting in enough air to allow the tube to hold its shape gives better results. Otherwise, the area under the patch would be stretched when inflated, resulting in premature failure.
Perhaps you could get failure with glueless patches, but a properly glued patch will easily withstand a little stretch to fill up the tire.
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Old 02-23-16, 12:04 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
The problem is that you are putting pressure on only a small area of the patch but not the rest of the patch. In the tire, the pressure is even and consistent across the whole patch..
Yes, the pressure is localized, but no, that's not a problem. The tool I mentioned is a roller; it rolls. You roll it back and forth over the surface of the patch as many times as it takes to press it down everywhere. In the unlikely event that there are bubbles, you will push them out.
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Old 02-23-16, 12:12 PM
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So I went ahead and ordered the Slime 8 oz tube of vulcanizing cement, and box of 100 patches from Amazon along with some other stuff.

Now I suppose I might need to find separate miniature tubes of cement to take on a ride, just in case, for when my previously opened tube runs dry. Or just carry a spare tube and not worry about a patch kit.
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Old 02-23-16, 03:23 PM
  #57  
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Don't overthink it. Now that you ordered all this stuff, you will never have a flat again. I finally broke down and spent the extra dollar for Rema patches about two years ago and I haven't had a flat since.

::::I haven't done this in a while, but I used to cut up old tubes and make my own patches from the rubber. They worked fine. I'm not sure why I stopped doing that!::::
>>>>Probably because it didn't work as well as you would like. Old tubes can be used with rubber cement (more on that topic further down) but you are stuck with a thick lump of material on the patched tube. Rema patches are thinner and make a better bond.<<<<<<

Oh yeah...Regular patches are definitely better. I used the old tubes when I was running a bike recycling program and we had more bikes, parts, and tools than we knew what to do with but we couldn't afford to buy patches!
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Old 02-23-16, 03:37 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Papa Tom View Post
Don't overthink it. Now that you ordered all this stuff, you will never have a flat again. I finally broke down and spent the extra dollar for Rema patches about two years ago and I haven't had a flat since.

::::I haven't done this in a while, but I used to cut up old tubes and make my own patches from the rubber. They worked fine. I'm not sure why I stopped doing that!::::
>>>>Probably because it didn't work as well as you would like. Old tubes can be used with rubber cement (more on that topic further down) but you are stuck with a thick lump of material on the patched tube. Rema patches are thinner and make a better bond.<<<<<<

Oh yeah...Regular patches are definitely better. I used the old tubes when I was running a bike recycling program and we had more bikes, parts, and tools than we knew what to do with but we couldn't afford to buy patches!
When I was younger, we were so poor we had to reuse the patches from old, worn out tubes.
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Old 02-24-16, 07:08 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Papa Tom View Post
Don't overthink it. Now that you ordered all this stuff, you will never have a flat again. I finally broke down and spent the extra dollar for Rema patches about two years ago and I haven't had a flat since. ...
You should know better, than to tempt fate by saying such things!

I posted to this thread repeatedly yesterday, and of course I got my comeuppance today. Pinch flat (perfectly avoidable; but I didn't avoid it) on my commute this morning. Details posted elsewhere.
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Old 02-24-16, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Papa Tom View Post
Don't overthink it. Now that you ordered all this stuff, you will never have a flat again. I finally broke down and spent the extra dollar for Rema patches about two years ago and I haven't had a flat since.
You just jinxed yourself... Please let us know how many flats you've had since you posted this. LOL

I used to hate patching tubes, but now I just save up the punctured ones and do a bunch in one sitting as suggested by smarter people than me. I hate the idea that I was throwing away so many tubes before, it's better for the environment to reuse and easier on my wallet too.

BTW, I always carry the stick on patches while riding although I always carry one spare tube. One time a friend had three flats on one ride, so the stick on patches are for that possibility when I'm riding solo. Otherwise, patching at home, I'm part of the cult of Rema Tip Top.
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Old 02-24-16, 09:41 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by milkbaby View Post
You just jinxed yourself... Please let us know how many flats you've had since you posted this. LOL

I used to hate patching tubes, but now I just save up the punctured ones and do a bunch in one sitting as suggested by smarter people than me. I hate the idea that I was throwing away so many tubes before, it's better for the environment to reuse and easier on my wallet too.

BTW, I always carry the stick on patches while riding although I always carry one spare tube. One time a friend had three flats on one ride, so the stick on patches are for that possibility when I'm riding solo. Otherwise, patching at home, I'm part of the cult of Rema Tip Top.
Same here, although I think I'll ditch my patch kit for the glueless patches (takes up much less space), plus a spare tube.
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Old 02-24-16, 01:19 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Not if you know the chemistry. The solvent allows the accelerator and the bonding agent to mix and slow down the reaction. The accelerator starts the process by having high concentrations of the catalyst close to the bonding agent. The solvent carrier in the vulcanizing fluid just dilutes the accelerator too much.
I'm certainly not a chemist, but do appreciate the mini lesson!
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Old 02-24-16, 04:21 PM
  #63  
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So, wait. Somebody took away from this thread that he/she should switch to glueless patches?
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Old 02-24-16, 08:07 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Papa Tom View Post
So, wait. Somebody took away from this thread that he/she should switch to glueless patches?
Not only that, but the message he was responding to was saying glueless ONLY for temporary road repairs, but he used Tip Tops (which are definitely NOT glueless) for permanent patching - then he said he was going to carry a spare tube anyway.

I carry two spare tubes and just don't bother carrying patches. I've never needed more than one, but being down to no spares makes me way too nervous
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Old 02-24-16, 09:07 PM
  #65  
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I'm a belt and suspenders guy. Glue and glueless, co2, pump and spare tube. You just never know.
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Old 02-25-16, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Papa Tom View Post
So, wait. Somebody took away from this thread that he/she should switch to glueless patches?
huh? I just bought a pack of 100 patches and a huge can of cement. I was saying that I'm going to carry a spare tube (which I've been doing anyway), and ditch my Park patch kit for just a tiny pack of glueless patches on the slim chance that my spare tube punctures before I get home, because the glueless patch container is takes up much less space than the Park patch kit.
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Old 02-25-16, 03:19 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Number 1_ Glueless parches .. I never use them, not being a waster of time and Money.

They are only temporary at best...
I have numerous cementless patches (from Park Tools) that have been holding air perfectly for the past 4+ years now. That hardly makes them a ôtemporaryö patch.
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Old 02-25-16, 03:26 PM
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I've never had a glueless patch last even until I could get the tire pumped up. I don't know why I'd bother carrying them.
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Old 02-25-16, 03:28 PM
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The first tube repair I ever did was hilarious. I didn't think to inflate the tube a little bit beforehand. So I patch it up, and go to inflate the tire, and it EXPLODES. Unbeknownst to me, the tube was full of that blue sealant goop and it was like somebody dropped a grenade on a Smurf village.

Doesn't taste very good, either.
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Old 02-25-16, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by PatrickGSR94 View Post
huh? I just bought a pack of 100 patches and a huge can of cement. I was saying that I'm going to carry a spare tube (which I've been doing anyway), and ditch my Park patch kit for just a tiny pack of glueless patches on the slim chance that my spare tube punctures before I get home, because the glueless patch container is takes up much less space than the Park patch kit.
Oh, OK. But I think the general consensus (though not unanimous) is to ditch the glueless patches altogether, whether you're carrying a spare tube or not. I understand that there are a few people who have had success with them, but most of the riders I know and who have posted here would never use them again.

Truthfully, this is a silly conversation at this point. A patch kit with 2-3 patches and a small tube of glue costs less than a Whopper and is so tiny, you'll probably lose it in your saddle bag before you'll ever need to use it. If you think the Park patch kit is too big, perhaps you might want to take everything out of it and leave the individual items loose in your bag.
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Old 02-25-16, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Gnosis View Post
I have numerous cementless patches (from Park Tools) that have been holding air perfectly for the past 4+ years now. That hardly makes them a “temporary” patch.
That is called an anecdote of One , hardly Universal .

Maybe you and the OP can meet up and you can share your wisdom with them.
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Old 02-25-16, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by milkbaby View Post
I used to hate patching tubes, but now I just save up the punctured ones and do a bunch in one sitting as suggested by smarter people than me. I hate the idea that I was throwing away so many tubes before, it's better for the environment to reuse and easier on my wallet too.
This is my story too. I used to always buy a new tube when one punctured, but I kept tossing the old ones in a box intending to eventually recycle them. Then one weekend I did a two-day cyclocross race event on a course with a goathead problem. I spent a large part of both days patching tubes for teammates and came home with six punctured tubes of my own that I hadn't gotten around to patching at the event. That inspired me to go through my box of tubes and patch them all. For a couple of days I had tubes hanging from everything in my garage that even vaguely resembled a hook, making sure the patches were holding (a solid advantage to patching at home rather than on the road). Now I have a box of spare tubes in various sizes that will last me for years if not decades. I still toss punctured tubes in a box and patch them in bunches when I have spare time.

Let me also sing the praises of Rema Tip Top. I used to use whatever happened to be in whatever patch kit I bought and I never had a problem with them, but I recently bought a box of 100 Remas and was surprised to discover that you can actually feel the difference. They aren't as thick and stiff as the typical patches you get in a kit. That probably doesn't matter much, but they're just nice. The biggest benefit, IMO, is that I now have 100 patches of the size I actually need instead of resorting to putting a big rectangular patch on a tiny hole when I get to the bottom of the kit.

The problem with glueless patches as a temporary fix is that while they don't always stick well enough to hold air long term, they do usually stick well enough that they aren't easy to peel off later.
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Old 02-25-16, 05:40 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
Huh. I've just been leaving that plastic on. Couldn't think of any really great reason to take it off.
ParkTool says: "Note: Leaving on the cellophane cover over the patch will allow the patch to slide inside the tire and reduce stress on the fresh patch. If the patch is removed, use a dusting of talc or baby powder over the patch."
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Old 02-25-16, 11:50 PM
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Alright, the Rema patch kit came in the mail, and im ready to do these repairs right. Saying goodbye to glueless patches. I am assuming the tubes of glue are like the standard tubes of super glue, where you use them once and they are dried up and useless next time you use them.

I have a bottle of Loctite Super Glue Gel Control, that has the consistency of snot, but does not dry up like the other stuff. Wondering if it would be okay to use for the patches.
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Old 02-26-16, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by HBxRider View Post
I am assuming the tubes of glue are like the standard tubes of super glue, where you use them once and they are dried up and useless next time you use them.

I have a bottle of Loctite Super Glue Gel Control, that has the consistency of snot, but does not dry up like the other stuff. Wondering if it would be okay to use for the patches.
No, the small tubes can dry up but usually they stay liquid long enough to get through the half ounce that you get.

The tube patching cement is specially formulated to bound with the rubber on the tube. I wouldn't recommend using anything else. You can buy a big can of it, but I haven't seen the need to do so. It's cheaper, in theory, but it's more than a small family of cyclists would use in a lifetime.
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