Stadjer

Yes, but to be fair probably 90 percent of Dutch bike commutes is under 5 miles. Body heat management starts with taking enough time for the trip of course, but that's a lot easier with home and workplace closer together. 90 minutes every morning is a lot, you can have your breakfast on the bike and make a few phonecalls, but that's about it and if you have the time it still can get quite boring, even in a beautiful autumn.

He's on a bike trail and I don't think lighting is an issue since the leds. To me autumn is probably the nicest time to ride, not necessarily the easiest, but if he starts now he'll be man enough when winter comes. I do agree that it's probably wise to start with a couple of days in the week with this distance, but it's still cycling and that hasn't to be complicated.

noglider 

Not only that, I don't think there are many steep hills in the Netherlands. The steeper the hill, the more vigorously you have to pedal, even if you have low gears. I have one extremely steep hill on my commute. There is no way to climb it gently.

Anyway, there are many ways to handle sweat. You have to figure out what works for you. There are really very few cases where sweat prevents you from cycling to work. I work in the IT department at a college. We are supposed to dress "business casual." Polo shirts are OK, but t-shirts are not. Jeans are borderline and tolerated. There is a mention in our dress code of "inappropriate shoes" which is quite vague. My take is that it's middle of the road. Maybe I raise eyebrows coming in wet and smelly, but no one has complained, and if there were a problem, my boss would tell me. I know this because when I wore sandals to work, he said men can't wear sandals. I think this is his take on "inappropriate shoes." So I come into work sweaty, I wash my face, and I sit down at my desk and cool off. When it's really hot out, I get a huge glass of ice water and sit still for 20 minutes. By then, I'm dry.

Come to think of it, I had a job with a similar dress code. I commuted by train and subway, where I sweated profusely. I did the ice water and sitting-for-20-minutes trick there, too. What else was I supposed to do?

Well, one alternative is to wear a jacket to hide your sweaty shirt. This, of course, will make you hotter, but if visible sweat is truly unacceptable, it works. I've done it at job interviews.

I have to question whether visible sweat is really unacceptable. My guess is that it rarely is. Some people sweat without any exercise, and they don't get fired. At least I hope they don't!

Darth Lefty 

Well, there's the volcano https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Scenery

CrankyOne

Agree. OTOH, I know a guy who lives near Assen and teaches in Groningen. He rides two or three days per week (though will sometimes take the train back if he's drinking late). He thinks and leaves himself a lot of voice mails. :-)

CrankyOne

True. There are some more difficult obstacles. With lots of hills or a combination of high temps & humidity then you may have to make a choice of sweating or buying an e-bike. But just because you or I have a hill to climb doesn't mean that it's a problem for people who live in more flat areas.

CrankyOne

Hah!

Steely Dan

exactly.

if everyone and their mother in the netherlands is able to ride their bike 10 miles on a warm summer day in full office clothing without breaking a single bead of sweat on their forehead, that's just super for them. i, however, have never been able to ride a bike in summer weather without turning into a human fire hydrant. as i said earlier, i can't even walk down the freaking street on a summer day without the water works pouring out of me. how the hell am i supposed to ride a bike without sweating if i can't even accomplish the feat merely strolling down the street at a leisurely pace?

the whole "just slow down and you won't sweat" deal may work for many people, but it sure don't work for me. i'm just a natural born sweater. it's just the way my body's physiology works, and it's been that way my whole life. fortunately, as noglider points out, even for those of us who are prone to excessive sweating, it still doesn't have to be an obstacle for bike commuting. i wear athletic clothing while i bike commute (not a silly MAMIL costume, just a wicking t-shirt and regular old athletic shorts) and change into my work clothes when i get to the office. a sink bath and towel-off followed by copious amounts of ice water does the trick for me.

Amigo_Frio

If you get to work early, you can quickly wash with soap and water. You can then place the cloth inside a plastic bag. Keep a spare shirt at work.


If you're going to ride in the winter, become very familiar with the landscape first. No where chuck holes are located. Snow and water might conceal them.

cyccommute 

Read Pugs' first post. He sweats a lot. So of us do. Others don't. How much we sweat is a very individual thing. "Just wear normal clothes" might work for you but I know that it doesn't work for me. Given what Pugs said, I doubt that it will work for Pugs either. I'm also thinking about dealing with cooler weather where "regular" clothes don't perform all that well.

cyccommute 

Exactly. It's normal and healthy to sweat. I've known a few "nonsweater" people in my life who overheat and pass out in hot weather.

Well my quibble is with people making assumptions that anyone who sweats is some how out of shape or "abnormal". We all respond to temperature and activity differently. If you can ride 15 or 20 miles without sweating, fine. But don't assume that everyone fits into this category. I have had "5 mile" commutes and I simply can't not sweat no matter how slow I want to travel. I know there are many other people in the same boat. Just because you happen to be in a different boat doesn't mean that the rest of us are doing something wrong.

Your cartoon, by the way, is highly offensive.

rumrunn6

15 miles on a door-to-door path? so jealous

CliffordK

You an quibble about exact definitions of summer/fall, etc. Around here we've still been having some nice weather, although a little chillier in the mornings. And, if sweat is an issue, a bit chilly of weather can't hurt (other than bundling up). Hills can make a great warmup for the ride if big enough. When I was commuting in Portland, there was no day too cold once I started up the hill.

It looks like Chicago has about 12 hour days now.

Sunrise: 6:46, Sunset: 6:36.

So, lights would certainly be a huge help (both directions). But, I personally have no problems strapping on some lights and heading out for a ride.

For my 16 mile "commutes", I like to give myself 2 hours and take my time, but frequently find my time a little short, so I'll frequently do it in about an hour.

For a "newbie", perhaps plan to do a dry run on a weekend. Even do an early start Saturday morning, once everything is organized. But, that isn't really necessary either. Just get everything ready the night before.

cyccommute 

Perhaps you ride in the same boat as Cranky One. But for the rest of us, sweat management...not "body heat management"...starts with the clothes we wear. It's not about "slowing down" nor "taking it easy". I don't ride nearly as fast during the winter but I still "steam" at every intersection I have to stop at...including the one that is only 1.2 miles from my house. If I'm lucky, my clothes are dry by the time I want to head home...and that's in a state where the winter relative humidity can fall to single digits.

Something else people don't consider is that by riding "slower" in the winter, you are lengthening your exposure time to the cold. I don't know about the rest of you but the longer I'm out in the cold, the colder I get. I've been doing this "ride to work thing for a long time (around 40 years) and while I enjoy it, being cold is still uncomfortable.

The problem isn't, necessarily, the bike path. It connecting to the bike path. Perhaps Pugs is lucky and the bike path runs from Pugs' front door to Pugs' work. But that is very rare. Usually, some accommodation needs to be made for riding on the street with cars in the dark. That means lights and more light than just the "be seen" lights that many people feel are "adequate". That's a whole different discussion and probably one that would better addressed after Pugs has some summer time commuting experience.

ThermionicScott 

It's always cute when the Europeans with flat 2-mile commutes in temperate weather try to tell us what we're doing wrong...

cyccommute 

Nope. Not quibbling at all about the "exact" definition of summer/fall. We are past astronomical definition of "fall"... i.e.the equinox (12 hours of night and 12 hours of day). It's fall. There may be some summer like days but my thinking isn't about temperature but about light.


It's a bit less than 12 hour of sunlight per day because we are past the equinox. The point being that it will get darker every morning until January 10 and the sun will go down earlier until December 14. If Pugs starts today, Pugs will still need lights in every morning. Since Pugs is kind of new to this whole adventure, what's the odds that Pugs already has lights? Or, given the immediate need, what's the odds that Pugs will go out and buy too little light for too much money? Pugs has no time to research what the need is.

Nor would I. But you and I both have lights. And we probably got those lights through an informed...or at least partially informed...decision. Again, Pugs has no time to research what may fit the need.

I certainly agree. It would be best to do a dry run as early in the morning as possible.

Steely Dan

^ pugs doesn't tell us where in "chicago" he lives, but if he lives in the city proper, he likely won't need much more than "be seen" blinkies.

chicago is one of the most ridiculously over street-lighted cites on the planet. even the freaking alleys are lit up like an amusement park.

i've been a 4 season daily bike commuter in chicago for 8 years and i've never needed anything more than simple front and rear blinkies.

we have banished night to the land of wind and ghosts, eggregious light pollution be damned!

CliffordK

I've gone through 30+ years of trial and error with the lights. And, have changed lights due to both evolving technology, as well as changing situations (and the occasional lost or stolen light).

If the bike path is mostly lit, then one can go with very cheap $1 headlights/taillights. On the other hand if it is mostly dark, then a more expensive headlight can be nice.

Mostly riding at dusk on a bike path, and there is no need to have those blinder taillights.

e0richt

remember there are also other options for how to commute... drive the car in to work, ride the bike home (and then next day vice versa) or drive part way to a place where you can stage your commute the rest of the way by bike (called a park and ride)... these strategies allow you to build up while still bike commuting...

Clyde1820

Depends on the facility, at the destination. Generally, I bring a couple changes of clothes and towel down, if no showering facilities. If facilities (ie, at a commuter-friendly workplace), I generally leave a change of clothes and gear there.

Sure, I do, sometimes. Generally, not when it's planning on snowing, and not often when it's sub-freezing. But with gloves, a balaclava and a decent jacket, it's not so bad. But then, I don't live in Chicago, either. "Cold" can have an entirely different meaning there, compared to my neck of the woods. Up to you, but if your clothing selections are decent and your bike/tire choice is up to it then I don't see any reason why not.

Stadjer

Most of the hills are as man made as a big part of the land, so they can be steep, but they usually are very short climbs. On the other hand, a lot of people live close to the North Sea and there's little in the way of the winds. Even in the summer it's often 4 or 5 Bft (13-24 mph winds) here, so it's probably quite simular to Chicago. It's not like cycling becomes effortless if the land is flat.

I like to sweat, I play football (soccer, not hand-egg) twice a week if don't have some injury, I like to run about 40 minutes in the morning 3 times a week, before I get on my bike. But I do sports/work out and sweat till I'm soaked, or I don't. On the bike I don't, it's not my work out, it's my transportation. It's an exercise like a relaxed stroll to a brisk walk, but not too brisk. I just don't like to be sweaty after a shower, and to be frank I've had collegues smelling and didn't always tell them. But I don't think the amount of sweating is what makes the difference, some people just smell easily with little sweat, and some heavy sweaters don't. If it's really hot and everybody sweats, I want to be among the least sweaty, that's just me. Riding my bike doesn't interfere with that.

I did that route once early august, from Assen to Groningen, it was quite a warm and sunny day, 21 Celsius, humid and 4-5 Bft wind head on. I did the 19 miles in 90 minutes on an upright bike, that was my aim and my aim was to do it without sweating, which took quite a lot of attention because I got injured in april and didn't do any sports since so I wasn't in great shape. I didn't sweat, but I had to adjust my clothes to achieve that.

That's a matter of balancing the cold from outside with the heat from within. The most difficult part is the aftersweating when you get to a warm place. If it's too cold I ride faster, if I get too hot I slow down. That's why I called it body heat management, because sweating is the body taking the management over and cooling you down with fluid, than you're too late.


I've noticed how much darker it can get in the country side, I ended up in a ditch and got my trousers soaked with black sludge becaus my 2 euro led wasn't sufficient. But that's just a matter of getting a unit with more leds, and therefore bigger batteries.

That's not entirely fair. I've said it's a very long commute and advised him to go full work out on it and organize a way to clean up afterwards. But cranky one pointed out that it's possible to cover that distance without sweating because it's speed that makes you sweat and not the distance. He's right, there's enough emperical evidence of that in the Netherlands, allthough a lot of Dutch long distance commuters choose to go faster and sweat, and/or use an e-bike or a recumbent. But some don't mind the time, they like to daydream, contemplate, listen to music or an audio-book during their commute. Temperate weather? It's nothing like southern France here, and rain is a lot worse than cold.

I always try to be very respectful to all local differences and therefore believe the American cyclist is much more admirable than the Dutch one because he has to put much more effort in in all kinds of ways, but I do believe that not making a fuss about cycling and riding slow as an option will help increase the use of the bicycle as transportation.

PedalingWalrus

My commute is 14 miles each way. I start early so that I am at work before anyone else. Although it is not mandatory, it helps me get in, take a shower in quiet and get ready for work. So to answer your question: I shower at work. I bring my clean shirts and pants to work on days when I drive a car and put them into my cubicle drawer. I have shampoo, shaving, comb, deodorant in my drawer. I have a towel hanging in one of the closets at work where it can safely dry after a shower. I wake up in the morning, get dressed and bike to work. My first shower of the day is at work and I actually like it like that. At the end of the day I leave pants in my drawer but I take the shirt with me. I only wear a hip pack with a few tools and my wallet and my cell phone. It is big enough to carry a bike lock for lunch breaks or my used shirt at the end of the day.

I bike until there is too much snow in the bike lane to bike safely. Cold is not really a problem if you dress properly. There are many options how to achieve 'properly' - At the coldest times it means a helmet without airflow holes with a warm insert that goes over my ears (basically a ski helmet) , balaclava to cover my cheeks a neck, ski goggles, insulated ski boots, knee warmers or soft knee pads to insulate knees from cold, wool gloves and windproof top and bottom shell layers. Lightly studded tires.

cyccommute 

In 40+ years of experience, I find that I need more light in cities than I do in rural settings. My lights are competing with hundreds of light sources per mile that are as bright or brighter than the lights I use. A "cheap $1 light" is an unseen light in an urban setting. As I pointed out above, the problem isn't with being on the bike path but with connecting to the bike path.

As for it being "dusk", at the time that Pugs would have to start for a 15 mile ride and time for a shower at the end (assuming an 8 a.m. workday start), it's not even civil twilight (look it up) and barely astronomical twilight at that time. And that for today, 29 September. It only gets darker in the morning from here on out to January.

cyccommute 

You simply don't get it. Many, if not most, of us couldn't do a 12 mph ride for 90 minutes at "room temperature" without sweating. Personally, I couldn't "adjust" my clothes to achieve that even if I rode naked...and I ride where it is seldom humid. My average speed...with stops for stoplights and signs and with the 10 mile route being uphill all the way...is usually 12 mph on my way into work and I never arrive there without being drenched.

Frankly, I would assume there was something wrong with me if I didn't arrive at work sweaty.

Sorry to say but you have no idea what you are talking about for me (and people like me). First, I've been doing this for 40 years. I kind of know how to ride in the winter and I know my own body. For me, there would be no way to arrive at work without sweating in any season unless I never made the trip in the first place. I manage the sweat and the cold through fabrics rather than trying to simply "not sweat".

Stadjer

First, I'm not talking about the heavy sweaters, people are different, and I'm sure there a lot of people who sweat very easily. But 'most of us' can't do 12 mph without sweating? Then they all have to try 11 mph first. And hills have to be taken slower of course. If it's very hilly it's a different matter but I don't beleive that's the case with Chicago.

The point is that if you know at what speed you don't heat up to the point you start sweating, arriving dry is just a matter of time. Time you might not want to take, but that's a choice. If you're not an exceptional sweater and you can't ride a bike without sweating if you want to, you're not managing your speed right. Someone here mentioned my mother, I can't remember seeing here sweat on a bike, the idea of arriving sweaty at her work would have been horrifying to her, but she did commute by bike a lot. Some people also say it sometimes is too hot to ride a bike, but riding you have more cooling wind with the same physical effort than when walking, so it is cooler so if it's too hot to ride it is certainly too hot to walk.

I understand that if you have a certain distance to cover by bike you have a different idea about a minimal speed one should maintain or automatically maintains when cycling, but it's really possible to go slower. You can go as slow as would translate to the same physical effort as a very relaxed slow stroll. One can even ride at strolling pace, don't tell me most people would work op sweat cycling at 3 mph just because they're on a bike. I can do 12 mph, with a 4 Bft headwind without sweating, I know not everybody can but they have their own speed at which they're just about to sweat but don't. I also get it wrong sometimes, when I'm not paying attention or in a hurry, but that doesn't mean I can't control it.

ThermionicScott 

And you two are still full of **** on that point. For some people in some climates, it's not even possible to get on a bike and turn the pedals without sweating. I know that upsets your condescending "just slow down and you won't sweat" mantra, but it's the truth.

Your "empirical evidence" from the Netherlands is laughable. Does it ever get above 70°F/21°C there? Try commuting more than two miles in 100°F/38°C weather sometime and get back to us.