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Studded tires or fat bike in the snow?

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Studded tires or fat bike in the snow?

Old 12-12-16, 11:54 AM
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chas58
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Studded tires or fat bike in the snow?

Nice day for winter tires. Got lots of snow.

I find fat bikes slide around a lot, and I sure can't go very far with them in deep snow.

These nokian hakkapeliitta studded snow tires just slice through the snow, and don't seem to care how deep it is. They have the tread for good traction in the snow, and the studs needed to keep the bike going strong on ice. Tough construction means they are durable and reliable. I don't know why I didn't do this earlier 6-7 inches of snow is no problem!

Fat bikes seem to work good if the path is groomed, not so much if it is deep or fluffy or icy.

Studs don't go fat in the winter! ;-)
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Old 12-12-16, 12:04 PM
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You can have Both... there are Studded Fat Bike Tires , My LBS sent a set to a friend in the USCG on Kodiak Island AK.
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Old 12-12-16, 12:15 PM
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I went all of 20 yards this morning in the sticky snow with my 35mm studded tires before turning it around and walking back up the driveway. Everything just sticks.

Fluffy snow that doesn't stick would perhaps work. But there was no way I could have gone 20 km. Would have been faster to walk.

Winter sucks!
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Old 12-12-16, 02:44 PM
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Studs. Ice and slick packed snow present a considerable danger as well as reduce traction. Plus, I find my Opafiets much more comfortable and practical to ride than any fat bike I've tried.

Our bikeways are plowed frequently enough that there's rarely more than an inch or two of snow. Yesterday was one of those rare instances - it got to about 3" before they plowed. Ended the storm with 7" of new snow and woke up this morning to a spot on 0.0f temp.
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Old 12-12-16, 05:37 PM
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It greatly depends on your route and the conditions on that route. Cranky lives in the same region as I do and yes the bike paths are plowed relatively quickly. However, in Minneapolis, plowing the residential streets after a snow event is a 3 day process because so many cars park in the streets. Alleys are plowed quickly. Emergency routes are plowed the first night. Even side the 2nd night, and odd side the 3rd. And it's far from perfect. A good portion of my commute is on residential streets and it's the worst part in the winter.

You have to be careful with recommendations. For example, I've seen people recommend Marathon Winters and while I agree they're a nice tire, they don't do well if there's much snow. So they are not the tire for me. Keep that in mind.

I see fat tire bikes around everywhere but I've gotten mixed reviews. Would like to try one though.
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Old 12-12-16, 08:25 PM
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@tjspiel, did you ride this morning? That our paths were all cleared created a lack-of-easy-excuse problem for me. A windy 0 was once my cutoff but I made an executive decision today to change it to 5f in December. It's just too early in the season for this old body to acclimate that fast.

I mostly agree with you except that if conditions are not good enough for Marathon Winters or similar then for me they're not good enough. Fat tires are good on trails but anywhere that there could be ice or slippery pack underneath I'd not be comfortable riding on top, even with studded fats.

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Old 12-13-16, 12:45 AM
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Last year I rode a single speed on Nokian studded for part of the winter. Today I took my brand new Norco Sasquatch 6.2 fat bike out after our snow storm here in Michigan. It was a mix of ice, slush, hard pack, dry pavement and the equivalent of mashed potatoes. Now, the tires on this bike are 4.8's. They are absolutely huge, and when you drop that pressure a bit, you are easily over 5" wide. The stability alone is well worth it. I was on ice, and yeah, it is a bit slippery, but that huge tire spread out underneath you sure makes a difference. I will be putting the studs back on the SS mtb for comparison but I think that the fat bike is going to see far more usage this winter.
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Old 12-13-16, 01:16 AM
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MTB type tread, slow and steady. I've traveled over streets that are practically glaciers. The way to do this if you have unplowed or heavily iced over stretches is to stay out of higher traffic areas if possible and don't made quick changes in direction, avoiding quick stops...use your feet as needed.


This has taken me though 40 winters....I am going on 51.


PS Even the oval knobs on some Chinese made 26" 'cruiser' style tires will work for this. I won't run with a flat tread pattern, regardless of how it's siped.
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Old 12-13-16, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by tjspiel View Post
It greatly depends on your route and the conditions on that route. Cranky lives in the same region as I do and yes the bike paths are plowed relatively quickly. However, in Minneapolis, plowing the residential streets after a snow event is a 3 day process because so many cars park in the streets. Alleys are plowed quickly. Emergency routes are plowed the first night. Even side the 2nd night, and odd side the 3rd. And it's far from perfect. A good portion of my commute is on residential streets and it's the worst part in the winter.

You have to be careful with recommendations. For example, I've seen people recommend Marathon Winters and while I agree they're a nice tire, they don't do well if there's much snow. So they are not the tire for me. Keep that in mind.

I see fat tire bikes around everywhere but I've gotten mixed reviews. Would like to try one though.
Exactly. Depends on the conditions.

Someone said in this thread that they wouldn't ride if conditions required more aggressive tread than Marathon Winters have. I disagree. For over 5 km of deep snow, it is true - there's no use riding a bike, it's too hard even with widest, knobbiest tyres. However, if there's a 500 m patch of deep snow, with the rest of the road being paved, fat tyres with aggressive tread make a lot more sense than Marathon Winters. You will go slightly slower on cleared parts, but won't have to walk on the 500 m deeper snow stretch. On the way to my mother's house there is just such situation - part of road without woods next to it, where wind blows snow and makes it deeper, although the whole road is regularly ploughed.

I wrote a guide for choosing "the right" winter tyres, according to snow/ice conditions one meets:

Bicycle winter tyres
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Old 12-13-16, 07:30 AM
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You'll find , sometimes , the bike you took to work in the morning is not the bike you need going home....but after a couple of falls ... you learn to make either one do.
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Old 12-13-16, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Jazzba View Post
You'll find , sometimes , the bike you took to work in the morning is not the bike you need going home....but after a couple of falls ... you learn to make either one do.
So true. Err on the side of caution and take the one with the studded tires, even if it sucks!
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Old 12-13-16, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by tjspiel View Post
I've seen people recommend Marathon Winters and while I agree they're a nice tire, they don't do well if there's much snow. So they are not the tire for me. Keep that in mind.
I've been running Marathon Winters for many years, and while they are great on ice, they are worse than useless when the snow is any more than an inch deep.
I'm trying out a set of Schwalbe Snow stud tires on my commuter bike this year. I have yet to put them to the test.
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Old 12-13-16, 10:21 AM
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It probably depends on the kind of snow you have. In Michigan they may plow and/or salt the road enough that it is actually clean mostly. Around here it goes from 4" of snow to 2" of slush. And if it ever does refreeze we get rutted ice, which studs are probably best for. But deflated fat tires can find deform around the ruts and find decent but not perfect traction.

If the snow is loose enough for studs to cut through and find pavement, they're probably better than fat tires. If skinny-ish tires can't find the bottom w/o getting bound up in the snow, then definitely fat tires.
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Old 12-13-16, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
I've been running Marathon Winters for many years, and while they are great on ice, they are worse than useless when the snow is any more than an inch deep.
I'm trying out a set of Schwalbe Snow stud tires on my commuter bike this year. I have yet to put them to the test.
My urban routes are plowed pretty well and early, so I rarely encounter new snow. I have found I can ride the Marathon Winters on my mountain bike, slowly and doggedly, but acceptably up to about three inches. I ride at full tire pressure, about 65 psi.

This year I bought an aluminum Specialized Diverge Elite with 30 C tires, to reserve the Cannondale only for the worst sloppy conditions. Im awaiting some Marathon 30 C studded tires with two, rather than four rows of studs. A fellow Bostonian, @Archiwhordes, has 30C Xerxes, and rides at about 50 psi (probably tire max is about 90). Im hoping that on icy/hard pack roads with the Diverge and Marathons, I can use a higher pressure. (On one Thanksgiving Day ride, my companion and I purposely sought out shiny ice to test our tires.)

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 12-13-16 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 12-13-16, 10:31 AM
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I'm not sure what the best solution for me would be in regards to tires.

The most treacherous thing I tend go through is compacted but still soft snow on the street that has been rutted by cars going through it. I stayed upright yesterday, but it was very, um, adventuresome. Bike wanted to go all over the place on its own.
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Old 12-13-16, 11:09 AM
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I think fat tires are great for people who want to do trail riding in the snow. But if I'm on a road I want studs. The roads are usually plowed if not bare and the fat tires do basically nothing to help.
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Old 12-13-16, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
I think fat tires are great for people who want to do trail riding in the snow. But if I'm on a road I want studs. The roads are usually plowed if not bare and the fat tires do basically nothing to help.
I'm of the same mind. My studded tires are useless on the groomed trails used by fat-tire riders and snowmobilers. Not enough floatation. But those same studs are miracles on iced-over pavement -- so much so that I sometimes go out of my way to hit all the icy spots on purpose.
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Old 12-13-16, 11:46 AM
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schwalbe marathon winters have gotten me through the past 7 chicago winters (now going on 8) pretty well.

as others have said, they are not very good for deep snow, but chicago is pretty good about plowing and salting streets, so i rarely encounter actual deep snow.

packed, rutted, mash potato snow/slush and ice are the main winter dangers for me, and my marathon winters seem to handle that kinda stuff well enough.

i love the high stud count of the marathon winters, i just wish they had a bit more tread depth for snow control.


as for fat bikes, i've never ridden one in winter conditions and thus can't comment on their snow/ice utility.
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Old 12-13-16, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
schwalbe marathon winters have gotten me through the past 7 chicago winters (now going on 8) pretty well.

as others have said, they are not very good for deep snow, but chicago is pretty good about plowing and salting streets, so i rarely encounter actual deep snow.

packed, rutted, mash potato snow/slush and ice are the main winter dangers for me, and my marathon winters seem to handle that kinda stuff well enough.

i love the high stud count of the marathon winters, i just wish they had a bit more tread depth for snow control.


as for fat bikes, i've never ridden one in winter conditions and thus can't comment on their snow/ice utility.
How do they roll on dry pavement? I have just regular mountain knobbies...did OKish on the ride yesterday, but a bit dicey in the mash potato stuff.
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Old 12-13-16, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by CrankyOne View Post
@tjspiel, did you ride this morning? That our paths were all cleared created a lack-of-easy-excuse problem for me. A windy 0 was once my cutoff but I made an executive decision today to change it to 5f in December. It's just too early in the season for this old body to acclimate that fast.

I mostly agree with you except that if conditions are not good enough for Marathon Winters or similar then for me they're not good enough. Fat tires are good on trails but anywhere that there could be ice or slippery pack underneath I'd not be comfortable riding on top, even with studded fats.
When it's really, really cold I'll start to have problems with my goggles icing up. But that's at about -20F. I've ridden when it's a few degrees colder than that. So, yeah I rode yesterday, today, and will for the whole week. Staying warm isn't too much of an issue if you have the right clothing. My toes will get cold with my current boots if I were to ride for a couple of hours, but for 45 minutes they're fine.

There are probably some people who will ride in absolutely any conditions. For me it becomes kind of an arms race. How much money do I want to spend on something I'll need 5 times a year?. So I draw the line at about 4 inches of unplowed snow. The nature of the snow makes a difference, so it might be 3 inches or maybe 7 if it's basically fluff. A couple of winters ago, we had 50+ days of below 0 weather, so I've made the investment in clothes that are suitable for that. Since I like to be outdoors, it's clothing I can use for more than just biking.

Tires are a compromise. I have 40mm Nokians which have about the same number of studs as Marathon Winters but much more aggressive tread for better handling in snow. But they're not nearly as nice to ride on in areas or during times when there's not as much snow.

I have a mild interest in Fat tire bikes and a standing invitation to try one out, - just haven't done it yet. The impression I've gotten is that they're not a winter riding magic bullet, but there are some circumstances where they do really well. If I had unlimited money and places to keep bikes, I'd have bought one by now. Since I don't, I live with the compromise.

Last edited by tjspiel; 12-13-16 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 12-13-16, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
How do they roll on dry pavement? I have just regular mountain knobbies...did OKish on the ride yesterday, but a bit dicey in the mash potato stuff.
Pretty well, believe it or not, if you keep the pressure high enough. You still hear the buzz from riding on bare pavement; perhaps one day it won't bother me.

Obviously it's not going to roll as well as your regular road/touring tires, but better than knobbies. I'd say on average it's 2-3 km/h slower, which, all things considered, isn't too bad.
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Old 12-13-16, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Abe_Froman View Post
How do they roll on dry pavement?
not nearly as nice as a slick, but they still get me to where i'm going. they seem to slow me down about a minute per mile, but that may not be entirely on the tires because i think i generally ride slower in really cold weather anyway. it's hard to know the exact time penalty, but there is one none-the-less.

either way, they definitely come with a time penalty on dry pavement, but on days when ice threatens, it's a trade-off that i'm more than wiling to make after my very first season of winter commuting years ago when i took two fairly bad spills on black ice riding on regular old studless MTB knobbies.

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Old 12-13-16, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by tjspiel View Post
I have 40mm Nokians which have about the same number of studs as Marathon Winters but much more aggressive tread for better handling in snow.
which Nokians, specifically, do you have?

as i said before, i LOVE the high stud count of my marathon winters, but i think i might like a little more tread depth for better snow control.

i already roll slow on my marathon winters because of the studs, what difference is a little more rolling resistance from a slightly deeper tread?
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Old 12-13-16, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
which Nokians, specifically, do you have?

as i said before, i LOVE the high stud count of my marathon winters, but i think i might like a little more tread depth for better snow control.

i already roll slow on my marathon winters because of the studs, what difference is a little more rolling resistance from a slightly deeper tread?
W240s.



The extra rolling resistance might be more than a little, but then it's all relative.
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Old 12-13-16, 12:46 PM
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I'm not sure how much has been said regarding this, but technique and riding position plays a role too. I'll wager that there are people who are much better at getting through snow than I am. I've been winter commuting for over 10 years and I still have things to learn.
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