Leisesturm

I never said you did, you've confused yourself with RubeRad.

Moi? Sūrement pas.

You mentioned moving, and that is actually a valid response depending on your level of commitment to the cycling lifestyle. I moved from NYC and had my pick of cities to go to. I never considered NYC a very bike friendly city, but there are a lot of cyclists there. I have lived in Detroit and environs, and in the 90's I thought it rather a hostile place to cycle. But I did. So when choosing a new place I threw 'a strong cycling culture', in the mix, and Portland, OR kept coming up again and again in the rankings. Been here 8 years and counting...

sexy cyclist

Ah, apologies.


Well FWIW I've tried cycling savvy courses. I've read up on road biking mannerisms, vehicular cycling etc. for years. I've tried everything. Riding on the sidewalk, riding on the road right of the fog line, riding a few inches left of it, claiming the lane etc. None of these options made me as safe as I'd like to be unfortunately.

Someday I'll move somewhere more cycling friendly. Hopefully somewhere with more hills too, pretty flat here

CrankyOne

Don't have time to find it right now but both SWOV and Fietsbarrad have reports that include it as well as Pucher's 'making bicycling irresistible' report.

Very roughly... The Netherlands has always had a bit more bicycling than other EU countries though prior to the 1950's it was perhaps 50% greater - noticeable but not a huge difference. All EU countries, including NL and DK, saw major declines in bicycling through the 50's & 60's as car use increased. They also saw major increases in road fatalities.

Beginning in the 1970's both NL & DK began building bikeways and both saw significant increases in bicycling though I don't believe either ever achieved pre WWII levels. IIRC, every country in the EU had higher rates of bicycling prior to WWII than either NL or DK do today. Bicycling in NL is up about five times today over what it was prior to 1972 and this is directly attributable to it's protected bikeways. If you look across all NA & EU countries today the number of people riding bicycles directly correlates to the level of protected infrastructure provided. The same goes for cities in NA. Portland has the most infrastructure and the highest modal share. Minneapolis has second most infra and second highest modal share, etc.

Here's a quick chart on Copenhagen where bicycling is up about 4 times over it's 1970's low. Again here, the number of people riding bicycles tracks with the development of bikeways throughout the city. And this has continued where today bicycling is up about 6 times over what it was in the 1970's prior to development of the bikeways.



In the 1950's the US had lower road fatality rates than most EU countries. Since that time EU countries have reduced their fatality rate about 4 times as much as the US which is why we have the highest road fatality rates of all developed countries today.

I-Like-To-Bike

Pucher's 'making bicycling irresistible' report - Figure 6 Trend in kilometres cycled per inhabitant per year in the Netherlands and the UK (1952–2006) Shows almost very little change in kilometres cycled per inhabitant per year in the Netherlands from 1970 through 2006, the date of Pucher's report. AND much less than was reported for the 1950's.

How did you calculate the five fold increase?

Classtime 

The "Cycling Savvy" courses would NEVER recommend that we ride on the sidewalk or to the right of the fog line. Those are some of the least safe places to ride. Google Cycling Savvy. Check it out.

sexy cyclist

No one ever said they would. I was just saying I've exhausted all my options as far as lane positioning goes and none of them were much safer than the others. I have drivers throw things at me for claiming the lane, nothing savvy about that.

Leebo

OP, ever thought about a mixed modal commute? Take the train, bus, car part of the way, pedal the rest? Any areas nearby that might be more bike friendly or better for bikes?

ptempel

+1

Park and ride helps me deal with living further away, less daylight in winter and just plain old getting tired and need to take an "easy week."

sexy cyclist

I've tried that, but even in the parta of town that work better for cycling I've been hit by three cars, had thinga thrown at me, gotten multiple flats from broken glass etc.

Moving can't happen soon enough.

CrankyOne

I've an email off to John to ask about that. Most data, including that John uses, indicate a much lower dip by the mid 1970's, particularly in Amsterdam, Rotterdam, and Copenhagen. That this is relative to 1950 rather than a straight percentage or raw numbers makes some difference though not much.

CrankyOne

Many roads are hugely inhospitable no matter what you do though its all relative to people's tolerance for risk. (Promotion of vehicular cycling / bicycle driving / cycling savvy are why we have the highest (by a wide margin) bicycle fatality and injury rates and lowest number of people who will ride of all developed countries.)

I-Like-To-Bike

I doubt that promotion of vehicular cycling / bicycle driving / cycling savvy has much, if anything, to do why we (presumably the U.S.) have the alleged highest bicycle fatality and injury rates and lowest number of people who will ride of all developed countries.

I suspect that only a small percentage of bicyclists in the U.S. have ever heard of or read promotion for vehicular cycling or bicycle driving or cycling savvy, and even fewer have adapted those techniques into their bicycling repertoire.

I also suspect that an even smaller percentage of bicyclists involved in bicycle-motorized vehicle collision related fatalities or injuries have been exposed to or adapted the techniques promoted by advocates of vehicular cycling.

PatrickGSR94

I'm a huge supporter of CS, from when I first started commuting in 2013 and heard about CS, to when I actually took the courses in 2015, and continuing to today. It made a real difference in my safety and confidence on the road. Like the OP, I also live in a typical suburban-planned area, outside the Memphis area, which wasn't even incorporated until the 1980's. Large multilane "stroads" are common, with many unconnected neighborhoods. There are a few routes through some of the older neighborhoods, but most riding does require at least short stretches on those "stroads" or on narrow 2-lane roads with no shoulder and 35 mph or higher speed limits.

When I first started riding seriously again in 2012, I rode at the edge, and buzz passing and honking were common. Thankfully I never had any crashes. It wasn't long before I discovered CyclingSavvy principles, and put them into practice. Buzz passing all but disappeared overnight. I get an occasional honk but that means the person saw me. Yelling and confrontation are almost nonexistent but that may be due to locality - most people can be passive aggressive but avoid actual confrontations and contact with other people. But still, in nearly 5 total years of serious cycling, well over 12,000 total miles, I've never had a crash with another object or person, and only 3 or 4 close calls, only 1 of which was really CLOSE.

CS is not about "you must do it this way and no other way". CS is meant to educate people of common risks from motor vehicles and other hazards, and give you the tools needed to avoid or greatly reduce such risks. I ride in bike lanes if it works better (no hazards from debris or door zone). I will ride very short stretches on a sidewalk if it serves my needs better (like turning left out of a side street and then immediately left into a destination, sidewalk just works better). But when doing so I'm more aware of the potential risks like motorists pulling out and not looking for me coming from their right side. And so I take whatever steps are necessary to avoid that risk, whether it's slowing down, or actually stopping to wait for the motorist to come on out, or whatever. I refuse to depend on other people, paint on the ground, or anything like that for my safety. I am in control of my safety, and I take whatever steps are necessary to ensure that safety.

OP I'm really interested to know what area of the country you're in, just so I can explore some Google street views myself, out of my own curiosity.

Leebo

^^^ Mentioned Carolinas I think.

Leebo

Seems like a sad state of affairs on the roadways. Running blinking lights and taking the lane when needed ?

FBinNY 

Let me put on my rude hat for a moment, and ask a question.

You started this thread stating that you've made a decision to quit bike commuting, and explaining why. I've no issue with that, it's something we all wrestle with at times.

However, I'm curious why you keep posting. Are you looking for moral support for your decision, wanting to get talked out of it, trying to convince others to likewise quit, or what?

I don't mean to offend you, but like I said, I'm a bit curious why you keep posting rationalizations for your decision.

CrankyOne

First there were complaints that the OP was MIA and a troll. Now that OP is posting? Really?

icedmocha 

Finding A better location is key. It sucks, but at least you will be alive to commute somewhere better.

AlmostTrick

If you move that means the yelling and honking gave the obnoxious motorists what they wanted... you out of their precious way.


EDIT: I refuse to give in to them. https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/...k-trucker.html

RubeRad

Srsly, he started a discussion, and is participating in the discussion. Where's the issue?

FBinNY 

I never thought the OP was a troll, and it should be obvious from my prior posts that I respect the OP's decision. We all make decisions about bicycling and other personal life choices, and I'm 100% fine with whatever anyone chooses.

I asked, because the OP seems to be trying to explain or justify his decision, which shouldn't be necessary. So, I'm curious about what the OP is looking for here;, support, understanding, encouragement to change his mind, etc.?

He doesn't owe me any answer, which is why I prefaced it saying I was wearing my rude hat.

AdvXtrm

I've been riding street-bikes (motorcycles) for decades, and without any major collisions, that is up until last year when I was hit by a vehicle traveling at a relatively high rate of speed, and while accelerating hit me at an intersection and ran me over. I was left with multiple serious injuries as you would imagine. Head trauma, multiple broken bones, punctured and collapsed lungs, and many other injuries, but I survived and here I am. I was left crippled and partially paralyzed. I was moved from the hospital to a convenient hospital because I was unable to take care of myself. I made it out of there and have been at home recovering amazingly well.

Now to the point here, I knew then that my motorcycling days were over. At the same time I knew I had to have something in my life to replace motorcycling. While still in the convalescent hospital, I came to the conclusion that bicycling would be it. I have since purchased a new bicycle and built it up for touring. Of course the problem is I don't want to be anywhere near motorized vehicles. I've been out on a few rides, and I'm avoiding sharing the road with vehicles as much as possible, but I've seen that you really can't do it that much. Riding on sidewalks has plenty of dangers of its own as the OP mentioned, and are often in far worse condition than the roads are. I find myself riding on sidewalks in areas with less driveways, and then when there are a lot of them I go out onto the road. I wish there were more dedicated bicycle trails. I wish that was a normal part of our infrastructure. In general I still feel safer on a bicycle than I did on my motorcycle, but my head is always on a swivel, and I'm taking nothing for granted. For me, I guess there's just something magical about being on two-wheels, motorized or not, so now for me bicycling is it. One of the biggest dangers I've seen, whether on a motorcycle or in a car, is that there are too many people who think more of playing with their phones while driving than the lives of others. I hope I can stay safe out there on my bicycle, and I hope the same for everyone else too. All we can do is our best.

No way could I blame or think negatively about the OP for their decision, to each their own. Humans being are often selfish, thoughtless, careless, and loveless creatures.

CrankyOne

You and many more. There can be great infrastructure. Get involved in promoting protected bikeways in your community.

This: https://streets.mn/2015/08/12/persis...view-bikeways/

Fortunately it's much easier today than 20 or 40 years ago. Cities and counties throughout the US are beginning to install some fairly good infrastructure. NACTO and others are including it in design manuals. Politicians are realizing the benefits that the bring to communities.

Leisesturm

Protected bikeways are a classic Catch-22: cyclists won't ride in numbers because they don't have them; but until there are more cyclists, there won't be any serious effort to build more of them. Even in the Portland, OR bike utopia, the majority of 'bike routes' are either: striped off bike lanes, OR, side-streets designated as "sharrows", where bicycles are encouraged to use the full travel lane. Although cyclists want to think that they are empowered to use the full lane everywhere, this is not actually the case. If it were, there would be no need for "sharrows".

My wife is blind. This is relevant, because there are about the same percent of blind, educated, work ready individuals in the general population as there are cyclists who bike as a primary means of transportation. An employer who wants to hire my wife must invest $15k to $20k in hardware and software adaptations to her workspace before she does a single minute of work. Two identically qualified candidates, one needs $20k of adaptive technology to start, and the other doesn't. That is hardly the analogy, a closer one is: 1,000 identically qualified candidates, one needs $20k of adaptive tech to start, the other 999 do not. If you don't think this has a chilling effect on the employability of disabled workers you would be wrong.

See where I am going with this? Log into an automotive discussion forum and sooner or later the issue of bike-lanes that are not used, will come up. When I lived in a suburb of the Portland Metro Area I was the beneficiary of the excellent network of striped-off bikelanes that were a DOT requirement on all roads in Washington County. With few exceptions I was the only cyclist I ever saw actually in the bike lane! On the rare occasion I saw another cyclist, they would be riding on the sidewalk, dodging recycling bins, mail-boxes and pedestrians. I had 3' bikelanes all to myself.

The bikelanes that simply an 8" wide wide stripe cost around $5,000/mi. Lanes with the double striping, protected by bounce-back flagpoles every 20' costs $250,000.00 per mi. and fully protected paths, The Holy Grail, the ones you guys want, cost $500,000.00 mi. and more. Do you want cycling to take off or not? If the only way you can feel safe on the road is to be behind concrete, you are in much the same situation as the disabled worker. You are not a priority, you are not worth the headache of finding the monetary resources to make you whole. They just found enough oil under North Dakota to make the prioritization of alternative transportation a non-issue for at least as long as it will take for coastal New York and New Jersey to be submerged under 9' of Atlantic Ocean. I'm not waiting for that happy day to turn the nations priorities to human powered transportation.

I'd rather not wait for a day that may never arrive in my lifetime. I have moved 3,000 miles to live in an area of the country known to be bike aware and bike smart now. I strongly suspect that is about as good as it gets in 2017. Y'all's mileage isn't going to vary all that much. FWIW.

CrankyOne

Fortunately reality is not as pessimistic. Today there are just over 500 miles (each direction) of protected bikeway in the U.S. in 388 segments. The number of segments has been about doubling every two years but indications are that the rate of installation is increasing as is the average length so 1500 miles in 1000 segments by the end of 2018 and 4000 miles by 2020 is not unlikely. This btw, does not include side paths and MUP's that counties are increasingly adding to their roads.

Protected bikeways are now included and recommended in several design manuals including MassDOT, USDOT, NACTO, and AASHTO which makes it easier for engineers to include them.

Politicians and others are getting increasing pressure to increase road safety, decrease fatalities and injuries, and provide for all users. They are also getting increasing pressure specifically for protected bikeways and to not fall behind all of the cities that are developing them.