JimboMartin

Hi Guys:
Today I had an "interesting" commute home. Dark with slush on the road but rain coming down. No problem, I have jacket, mittens, and my rain poncho/cape. But, when I put the cape over the handlebars with my thumbs in the loops, it covered my handlebar-mounted headlight. Arrrggg. So I did my best to scrunch up the cape so it covered everything but the headlight. Didn't work very well and my legs got soaked.
So, I clearly need to relocate my headlight. What alternative headlight mounting locations have you guys tried? My SKS fender seems like it might be too flimsy. Fork? Low on the head tube? Side of down tube right up by the head tube?

EDIT: Just in from the garage. Best option I can see is on the side of the headset spacers. Most other options have cable issues. The tapered fork also presents a problem in terms of the clamp sliding down. I've used a helmet mount in the past and always felt I was blinding drivers, no thanks.

Thanks in advance,
Jim

Leisesturm

Helmet mount. Will require creativity with helmet rain cover. Not a cape/poncho user, but have thought about it. Don't see that it would be that hard to keep it from covering your bar mounted headlight.

fietsbob

I have a fork crown mount for my headlight... (+ trekking bars) cape over hands but not over light.
[wired led]
another bike has straight bars ,battery light on front rack - its the snow bike so parka is fine,
the water is a solid then ..




I have seen cycle rain capes made with a clear plastic window for the users of handlebar lights to shine thru..

a window like that can be sewn into yours perhaps?





since then I have changed to an LED headlight .. (hoop shadow, insignificant)

prathmann

I have mine mounted on the head tube since the usual handlebar position is blocked by my handlebar bag. Works fine but the light acts a little different when turning since the bike and head tube turn more gradually than the bars. So the light doesn't instantly swing in the direction of a turn the moment you point the bars that way.

wphamilton

I'm also on the head tube, just above the crown race. I dislike how the beam doesn't lead into turns, as prathmann mentioned, but it's not debilitating. An alternative is on the fork which also isn't bad, if the shadow of the wheel doesn't bother you.

On my other bike I have it mounted under the stem, which might be un-obscured by your rain cape? Would mounting it under the bars (which I personally prefer to on top of the bars) instead of over be clear? Underneath you could have a cable looping in front, but it doesn't really block that much light -it just seems like it would.

JimboMartin

Thanks guys. The headset spacer mount was too high. Still covered by the cape. So I moved it to the very top of the fork. Seems to work. If it slides I'll do something with tape.

howellhandmade

A light mounted on the head tube should be better for what you describe. 2-wheeled vehicles turn by countersteering; at least when you initiate the turn, you turn the front wheel opposite the direction of the turn, which forces the vehicle to lean in the direction of the turn. To turn left you push on the left bar. The centrifugal force of the turn at speed will try to force the bike upright, so to maintain the turn it is neccessary to maintain countersteering pressure. Which, if the headlight is mounted to the bars, aims it to the outside of the turn. Because most people learn to ride a bike by instinct at an early age they may remain unaware of the mechanism actually used. But since the bars turn such a small amount, it matters little. And once the speed drops to the point where there is no leaning, the wheel does indeed point in the direction of travel.

wschruba

Look up "cronometro NOB", or "Paul Gino", etc. There are solutions for mounting lights to the side of a fork/wherever.

Leisesturm

Seriously? I am a big believer in helmet mounted primary headlights, and I see more and more converts every week. You want light somewhere you look there...

howellhandmade

I agree entirely, a light that points where you look makes the most sense. I was merely pointing out the error of favoring handlebar-mounted lights because they point into the turn, which, due to countersteering and except at walking speeds, they don't.

Leisesturm

Have you ever ridden a motorcycle? You definitely countersteer a motorcycle, but I can't honestly say I countersteer my bicycles. Certainly not enough to affect what a bar mounted headlight sees. Come to think of it, countersteering never affected what the handlebar mounted headlight saw either...

howellhandmade

Have three motorcycles, ride them lots. You do countersteer your bicycles whether you notice it or not, or else you would fall down. Motorcycles are much heavier and thus require heavier input, but both motorcycles and bicycles employ countersteering except at very low speeds, and if you try next time you ride will notice. We are not arguing about the degree of turn. Because the countersteering serves only to upset the lean axis of the vehicle, the wheel does not turn the same amount as a 4-wheel camber thrust steering vehicle. Cars actually suffer much worse with regards to headlights pointing where the vehicle is not going, and I never said that bar-mounted lights didn't work. My point was that it does not make sense to prefer handlebar-mounted lights over head tube-mounted ones for their virtue of pointing more in the direction of the turn because they don't. That is not my opinion, it is a physical fact. My apologies for diverting the thread, which was about headligh occlusion, not countersteering.

BassNotBass

Helmet mounted light works best for me. It shines where I want to see, counters the weight of my video cam mounted on the opposite side and it's easily adjustable.

wphamilton

Except that you're wrong. Try it sometime and see for yourself

Darth Lefty 

Yes the wheel does point into the turn. That does not help the headlight, which is still facing the wrong direction whether it's attached to the frame or the fork. Which is why BMW did this a few years ago BMW Motorrad : Safety concept : Lighting

IME, this does not matter to bicycles because you rarely lean them that far, and slopes shortening your headlight distance are way more annoying.

Spider

You did not divert the thread in my view. You corrected a misconception with a short post, and then were repeatedly challenged by doubters who misrepresented your points. You have way more patience than I.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering

howellhandmade

There is no need for you to believe me. Sheldon Brown says,

"When a bicycle turns, it must lean into the direction of the turn so that the tilt of the bicycle and rider counterbalances the "centrifugal force" created by the act of turning.
In order to turn left, you start by turning the handlebars to the right for a moment. This moves the front wheel out to the right of the center of gravity, so the bike will start to fall to the left. This is immediately followed by turning the handlebars to the left to cause the bike to remain in balance, which also creates the desired left turn. "Countersteering" refers to the momentary motion of the handlebars in the opposite direction of the desired turn. usually, this is accomplished through the normal slight weave of the bicycle to maintain balance."

It all depends on speed. If you are going fast enough or need to decrease the radius of the turn, you need to maintain the counter steering pressure a bit, although because the rider's weight is so much greater than the bicycle's, a lot is accomplished instinctively with body position. And once in the turn, the radius is set by the balance between lean and centrifugal force and the wheels track together. It is not as dramatic with bicycles as with motorcycles because we have relatively so little power and are prevented at any real lean angle from applying it during a turn by pedal strike, so we don't experience the need to counteract increasing centrifugal force with continuous counter steering pressure very often.

Wilbur Wright said,

"I have asked dozens of bicycle riders how they turn to the left. I have never found a single person who stated all the facts correctly when first asked. They almost invariably said that to turn to the left, they turned the handlebar to the left and as a result made a turn to the left. But on further questioning them, some would agree that they first turned the handlebar a little to the right, and then as the machine inclined to the left, they turned the handlebar to the left and as a result made the circle, inclining inward."

There are many experiments one can do. If you ride through a puddle going straight, then turn, and go back and look at the tracks, you can see how the front wheel swings outside the line of the rear wheel to begin. I'm not surprised by the disbelief. Many motorcyclists of many years' experience will also maintain that counter steering is wrong. It doesn't matter, we all manage to ride our bikes regardless of how we think steering is accomplished. And if you think you initiate a left turn by turning the bars to the left, perhaps the worst thing you could do is think about it. Just ride.

Leisesturm

Not sure why you feel this way. The helmet mount is actually the one option that allows you NOT to blind drivers if you so choose. Handlebar or frame mount... it aims where you are headed, straight towards them. And that is usually no problem. While stopped at stoplights or intersections, I look at anything, except at or into oncoming or turning vehicles. Once moving again I keep my beam oriented somewhat to the right which is pretty much what a cars 'low beams' do. Are they going to see something? Of course, that is kind of the point. Are they going to be blinded. No. No more than you are when meeting oncoming traffic. Plus, if you are doing it right, your road placement puts you very far right, well out of the direct sight of oncoming vehicles. It is a complete non-issue. I don't know why cyclists agonize so much over what drivers can see or not see. What you need to see is way more important. The DOT mandates that cars carry 3,000 lumens plus, in front of them, and many are packing twice that and more, and are not apologizing for it. Cyclists are worried that their 500 lumens (on a good day) are causing problems. I think not.

wphamilton

I know what counter-steering is, and I'm not going into it in this thread, because this is about the headlight placement. Suffice it to say, the drawback of mounting it to the frame vs handlebars is that the light doesn't lead into corners. Those of us who use both are aware of the difference - it is pronounced enough to be not only noticeable but annoyingly so.

What you should do, @howellhandmade, in the spirit of experimentally validating your ideas, is mount two lights on your bike. One on the bars, one on the head tube, and simply watch what the lights do as you turn into a corner.

Leisesturm

But you are thinking about it... clearly... here is what you are missing: especially at this time of year, when a cyclist is turning, their speed is likely to be less than 2 mph. Yes, less than walking speed even. I'm not countersteering, I'm trying not to skid out on wet leaves, or wet pavement and cause a spectacle. The bars are turned exactly where I want the bicycle to go. So is the light mounted on them.

My brother used to drive a fancy car that had cornering lights. They were side mounted head lights that came on when you activated the turn signal on that side. Very cool and IMO should NOT be reserved as an option for higher end customers! I am sure I've seen somewhere a really old car that had the headlights mounted on the kingpins so that they pointed wherever the wheels did! It was actually a step backwards to fix headlights into the chassis so they aimed straight ahead all the time.

A frame mounted bike light would not swing into a turn and the floodiest of bike lights are a narrower beam than most car headlights. It would work... does work... but IMO a cyclist needs more... a lot more... if the car doesn't see what it needs to see in the turn, Muffin may not come home for din dins... if the cyclist doesn't see the pine cone in the road, in the turn, it may mean a broken collarbone... if you are lucky. The handlebar or fork mounted light does swing into turns. Motorcycle headlights usually do not swing in turns but their beams are very wide. Like car low beams. Sadly, it looks like innovations on that front (Darth Lefty's post) are reserved for the same higher end set that features like "cornering lamps" are marketed to automobile buyers.

JimboMartin

Clearly I touched a nerve with this comment, but that was not my intention. I'm not suggesting anyone else stop using their helmet mounted light but its not for me. To each his own.

Darth Lefty 

Someone get Kickstarter on the phone! I'm sure an inventor could manage one out of the same gyros they use for the little drones.

prathmann

Agreed. But it wouldn't even be necessary to mount lights and do the experiment at night. Just a glance at the handlebars while in the middle of making a right turn should be enough to convince him that the bars are pointed to the right relative to the frame. Therefore bar-mounted lights do tend to point in the direction of the turn more than frame-mounted ones.

Yes, to initiate that right turn you may momentarily flick the bars to the left to cause the bike to lean to the right ('counter steer'). But once you're actually in the right turn you will also be turning the bars to the right.

fietsbob

FWIW, a Couple years ago for a German who came to compete in the transamerica 'tour-race'

Relocating the light sideways (at the hub) on an L bracket, had the eDeluxII beam pattern wrong..

a rear skewer and a spacer was a Better solution then the beam pattern was Upright.



The bikepacking bag on the handlebars displaced its Original Location..




'/,

EricSteven5

I went with the minoura adjustable extender coming down off underneath the stem.

https://imgur.com/a/sF8ny

https://www.amazon.com/Minoura-Acces.../dp/B00810V1DG