NzAndy

Riding home yesterday I came across a situation where I was being passed by a car and about 15 yards up were about 5 people wanting to cross the street. They waited for the car then walked right out in front of me while looking at me to see if I was going to run them over. There were too many of them to just charge through so I just slowed down.

Kind of irritating, but I have always said that the world's best camoflage is a bicycle. The army needs to invest in more bikes, nobody would ever see them that way.

Anyone else find pedestrians to be more of an issue than the drivers?

richardmasoner

Don't know about NZ, but in the U.S. vehicles are required to stop for crossing pedestrians. Pedestrians may not dart right out in front of a vehicle, but they are permitted to force oncoming traffic to stop if there's time for the vehicle to do so.

I don't believe pedestrians forcing bicyclists (or other vehicle operators) to slow or stop is a problem.

RFM

DamianM

I've found the pedestrians on my commute to be much scarier than the cars, because they are so unpredictable.

I know what the cars want, to get around me as quickly as possible so they can be first to the next set of lights I will pass them at

I never have any idea what a pedestrian is about to do, and they don't have the restriction of a lane that they are travelling in, they can move in any direction.

bostontrevor

Pedestrian right-of-way in the US is a state or local issue. Some places the ped has the right of way 100% of the time. Other places it's ROW when in any crosswalk. Still others it's when in the crosswalk w/o seperate ped signals or when in a crosswalk with signal showing a walk.

Here it's basically any time the ped's in the crosswalk (basically...it's actually more ambiguous than that).

Still, if I have the ROW and someone decides to step off the curb, I'm not going to hit them, but I'll play a little game of chicken. Far too often I have exactly what you describe happen. They know they would get creamed by the car, but they figure they got my number.

Well guess again pally, I'm doing 25 mph and I'm not moving. You really want to see if I'll stop? Maybe you should just wait your turn.

Oh, and be sure to give them a holler like, "look out!" so they know you know what they're up to.

JohnBrooking

This reminds me of chess, where the different pieces all move in different allowable directions and distances. I wonder if you could design a chess-like game based on traffic. I can imagine these pieces:

• Cars: Can move longer distances per turn, but only in a straight line
• Bikes: Can move medium distances, and are allowed one change of direction per play (turn per turn, so to speak)
• Motorcycles: Can move the same distance as cars, but are also allowed one change of direction per play
• Pedestrians: Can move up to two squares, each in any direction
• Police: Allowed to capture other pieces without injury, can also jump other pieces
• Others?

I wonder if the playing field should be a square grid or a oblong rectangular "road"? Hmm...

JohnBrooking

I guess I should answer the original question. It's state law in Maine that a pedestrian in a crosswalk always has the right of way. It's not much enforced by actual ticketing, but it is very well stressed with signage and paint, so it's actually observed better than most other places I've been. In my mind, I should be required to observe it on a bicycle just as much as a in a car. In practice, my commute doesn't have many crosswalks, so I don't recall a time this has ever actually been an issue.

When a pedestrian, I probably wouldn't challenge a cyclist, just out of courtesy, but I do regularly take a tentative step when there is car traffic that has room to stop, then wait to make sure they are going to. Amazingly, often they do.

Outside of crosswalks is another story, but of course pedestrians always bear watching...

lilHinault

My general impression is peds have the ROW anywhere, anytime, because what else are you supposed to do? Hit them? cuss 'em out while avoiding them if you like, and if a cop sees 'em jaywalking and causing a problem they can get ticketed, but when you think about it, peds have the ultimate ROW.

greenbreezer

My problem with pedestrians aren't the ones crossing the street, but with joggers/runners who go with the flow of traffic. Pedestrians are supposed to face oncoming traffic if they're not on a sidewalk. Many times I come up behind a jogger and they don't hear my high-pitched bell or my shouts to pass on their left because they're wearing headphones. Ugh! So I'm forced to go into the traffic so I can "safely" pass the clueless runner. I'd say that about 90% of the time, the runners are facing the wrong direction. What's with these people?!

MsMittens

I don't mind the pedestrians at the crosswalk. ROW and all that. However, it's the one's that jaywalk that bug me. Here in Toronto on Danforth there are parked cars on both sides of the street and it's rather heavily travelled when it comes to traffic. But without fail I have to watch what's behind me on the left side and the potential of not just what's directly in front of me but what's going to pop out from between a couple of parked cars/trucks. For whatever reason this area (aka Little Greece) strikes me as the worst for this kind of activity.

NzAndy

Interesting responses. I grew up in Denver (Golden, actually) but I can't recall the pedestrians having ROW. Regardless of that, my main point was that these people were not at all concerned about waltzing out when it was obvious that it would be an issue for one of us. Personally, I avoid walking out in front of large objects moving my direction. Call me crazy.

Maybe this is just simply natural selection trying to take its course....

tharold

The times I've had close calls with pedestrians, it's been along a long empty stretch of road. Naturally they have to jaywalk right into my path without checking. I think what's going on is they don't register bicycles as a threat, they're only looking for cars and trucks. They don't look at you, they're pretending they don't see you so they don't have to act.

I think I'll handle this case by stopping right in front of them and blocking their progress. Then I'll ask them if they didn't see me or if they were pretending not to. Basically to assert my existence which they have been denying.

richardmasoner

Pedestrians absolutely have ROW at intersections and crosswalks in the state of Colorado. If a traffic control device is at the intersection or crosswalk, then peds must obey the signal or sign. Otherwise, peds may cross and stop traffic.


40 years of education telling us and our children to stay away from traffic has resulted in much higher speeds and more danger on our residential streets. Residential streets have become child-free zones, the exclusive domain of cars. People have been ushered from playing in the street to playing in the front yard. These days, people drive so fast in neighborhoods that the children have been moved to the backyard or inside to get fat in front of the idiot box. This is not right.

While I'm ranting on the topic of pedestrian rights: In some commercial districts with slower speed limits I'm one of those guys who step in front of cars if I need to. I'm delaying the motorist or the bicyclist five, maybe ten seconds at the most. Those of you whining about the horrible inconvenience of swerving, slowing, or stopping for a pedestrian might as well buy a Hummer and go to the AUTOMOTIVE-LOVE forums where you belong. The law giving pedestrians ROW applies as much to bicyclists as it does to other vehicle operators.

I mean are you guys even reading the stuff that you write? Replace "jogger" with "biker" and replace yourself with an SUV driver. "Argh!! I had to cross the yellow line to pass that $%& BIKER and I nearly got hit by oncoming traffic! It's all that BIKER'S fault! That BIKER should ride on the SIDEWALK where he belongs because only my big fat SUV is allowed on the road."

I passed four or five slow bicyclists today on moderately busy streets. These guys (and a gal) weren't going any faster than a jogger. Do you guys cry about having to pass slow cyclists? What is the big deal about having to pass somebody, anyway? What do you do when you approach a blue-hair driving 15 mph in her Buick and you've been pushing along at 25 mph?

I could go on (and on, and on...), but I need to get to bed so I can get up early tomorrow to do something fun. I'll undoubtably have to slow or even stop for peds in the middle of the road oohing and aahing at the wildlife. And I'll probably pass some RVs on hairpin turns. And I won't gripe about any of it because I'll be having too much fun just riding.

RFM

tharold

There is a school of thought that to reduce traffic accidents, you REMOVE traffic light, signs, etc. anything that gives cues of right of way. ROW then is negotiated instead of assumed, which assumption is the cause of grief. I'm all for this calculated anarchy, it bodes very well for cyclists.

But until that happy day we've got a system now that we have to work with. When pedestrians can't do that, well it pisses me off. I don't see why I have to like jaywalkers.

In addition, your analogy (car vs. bike = bike vs. ped) does not hold. For one, cyclists and bicycles do not kill, unlike cars.
For another, the pedestrian is unique in that he pays almost no attention to conveying himself. He is usually talking to friends, or has a cell phone glued to his ear, or is daydreaming. A pedestrian is in no sense like a vehicle. Your analogy doesn't hold.

NzAndy

I probably should have been more precise on my reply. I know that at a controlled intersection ROW is all preset. I was stating that I did not recall that the pedestrian had the ROW if they simply decided to walk out in front of you anywhere else along the street which is what happened to me.

I actually agree with Richard that many people can drive way too fast in neighborhoods and other places they should not. I have argued with and even threatened one person near my last house in Phoenix who was more concerned with his speed than anything else. But the end result is that you are still responsible for your own safety and you have to allow for idiots doing warp factor 7 in a 35 mph zone. The fact that I was doing 24k/15mph should not have made it that much more inviting to charge out in front of me.

My original point was that I felt it was both dumb and rude for these people to simply walk out in front of me. Having to slow down for them really was a minor issue, I slow or stop a lot when commuting. The comment about considering running into them was meant more as sarcasm, the last thing I want to do is injure someone.

As for slower people, I can accept that not everyone will be going at my pace. That holds true for driving too. Really that is a slightly different point but dealing with traffic is just part of life in modern society. I had really just thought that I would be more concerned with drivers cutting me off than pedestrians when I started commuting.

kb0tnv

They think bikes are slow... Can't even think that one may mow them down...I hate it too...that is why I got an Air Horn! The butt wipes can sue you so be carefull. One was hit by a cyclist and won the lawsuit!

Keep Cycling,