It's human nature to vilify those different from ourselves to assuage our own insecurities. I recall reading something not long ago denigrating Brompton riders....... :lol:

The miracle of internet bandwagons, "build it and they will come".

Considering that we accept higher risk of injury and fatality than we'd have with other modes of commuting, "unsafe" being relative, maybe all of us operate in an unsafe manner.

I usually dread the first weeks of nice weather because of all of the "new" riders. I don't think they're all really new even. I think that a sizable number of people simply forget all common sense between the seasons.

This year is weird though with off and on spring-like temperatures and people out for their first rides already for a month or so.

Some "risk" is safer than no "risk" because it keeps us alert rather than becoming complacent. The trick is knowing where the line separating the 2 are, and knowing the difference between "risk" and "stupid".

I would predict they if they ever catch on with students, there will be a high percentage of unsafe e-bike riders around here.

The entire premise is far too judgemental for me.

I keep it pretty simple. If you can enjoy a long cycling career with no serious injuries to yourself ot other then you are a safe cyclist. Unfortunately the reverse isn't true, and even "safe" cyclists may have a serious accident.

So the OP's claim that 95% of the riders he sees are unsafe probably isn't borne out in crash statistics, and I reject it on general principles. However, I don't dispute that he believes the figure to be true, and that's kind of sad.

The OP is an attempt to discover whether other bicycle commuters on other routes have observed what we have observed here in L.A. I did not expect all e bike users to admit that they and their brethren drive in an unsafe manner. But if some one claims that they have observed the same frequency of bad behavior from both cyclists and e bike users on their commute, they should identify themselves as one or the other.

I ride both, but I've been riding regular bikes for nearly 50 years, and e-bikes for only 3 weeks. I will not defend bad behavior no matter who they are, and I will not "admit" to things I haven't done or observed because a couple of judgmental people on BF say it's so

As I said before, anytime I see someone maligning an entire group whoever they may be, I must question the judgment and veracity of the source of such contempt.

I've encountered a handful on my commute and the all behaved like normal cyclists as far as I could tell. One female was mildly annoying going down the bridge as she was too slow and holding me up. I had a nice chat with her when we got to the bottom of the bridge and she said she wouldn't have been able to commute without the ebike.

I think some people are more sensitive than others when being passed and, perhaps, over estimate the danger or risk involved.

I wonder if the OP is talking about the Marvin Braude bike trail along the coast in LA county. If so, that's where I ride and I don't think the e-bikes are any worse than the road bikes. I do own an e-bike so maybe I'm biased. Regardless of which bike I'm riding I always slow down when the circumstances call for it.

I commute and ride on dedicated bike paths in Seoul, Korea. I see a lot of e bikes, and for the most part they are safe.

There is one young e fat bike rider that thinks he is in a motocross race but you can hear him coming and take appropriate action. He has very bad taste in music and a powerful speaker so you know when he's around.

The majority of e bike users here are very well behaved white collar workers--you can wear office clothes on them--and older guys.

Ant that is the point here on just drive a car forum. When people commute on an e-bike it makes it less a feat 'o manliness. It becomes something at anyone can do. Some people feel that this lessens their experience, it gives them lass bragging points.

Remember, anyone faster than you is a reckless idiot and shouldn't be on the road; anyone slower than you is holding everyone up and shouldn't be on the road.

I commute on my e-bike every day. I haven't seen any other e-bike commuters except when I lived in Ashland, OR.

I am. I'm on the strand from Redondo to the bridge and then take Ballona Creek to Duquesne. I'll be on the lookout for the well mannered e bike commuter.

I would say e-bikers are far less considerate than most cyclists, but at the numbers currently out there, they don't yet pose a serious safety risk.

There are a few of us that have Ebikes and have had very positive experiences. We tend to watch for the threads about Ebikes and post our positive experiences. There are some folks from areas like LA that has more Ebikes, and some of those folks report positive experiences and others not, but still a very small sample size. Then, there are folks to appear to be watching for any thread that has positives regarding Ebikes, and those folks appear to post negatives. I find it very hard to take anyone seriously who does not have any real experience with Ebikes and appears in every ebike thread to post negative opinions. Ebikes are so popular in Europe that the bike shops I went to were mostly full of Ebikes. Some areas are struggling to adjust, others are not. Imagine how many things would not exist in our world if every time there was a need for adjustment that people just gave up.

I don't know that I've ever seen an ebike out in the wild. Generally, I tend to think a lot of people ride with an overabundance of caution - which is all fine and well. You ride how you want to, I'll ride how I want to, and we are both having fun riding bikes.

OP, Safe? Thats everyone's job. Dog walker not paying attention, I pod zombies, parents of wee ones etc. Too fast or just faster than you? Does your mup have a posted speed limit?

I see ebikes fairly frequently on my commute and as far as I can tell, they behave just like regular cyclists except they climb hills faster than most. They don't bother me a bit, nor do they seem to be doing anything particularly dangerous that I can see.

Around here we do, actually. I think it's 25 km/h on most that I've seen. It's not too difficult to exceed this, obviously.

15mph here, with only occasional token enforcement.

I expect you'll get the same response here as you will if asking car drivers. Everyone considers their own behavior the norm and everyone else is either a slow idiot or a maniac.

OP, is lazy..
Get to work on doing a survey then , rather than just dumping it to this inconclusive opinion fest.



:rolleyes:

Annoyance comes not specifically from ebikes.
In Europe ebikes are becoming more popular. Usually max 25 km/h. No troubles so far.

But I do urge people to ride with lights on in darkness ;-)

If you're going to misquote George Carlin, do it right.

"Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?" - George Carlin

However, I agree that this thread is just another example of group identity at work. Bicyclists hate those on e bikes the same way both motorists and pedestrians hate bicyclists.

As I see it, I don't think the laws have really addressed them. They can be used like a bike (pedalled, with or without electric assist) and, in North America, they have a throttle like a motorbike (gas- or electric-powered). There are styles that look like bicycles and there are styles that look like scooters. Unlike bicycles, they can easily be ridden at up to 20mph/32kph by anyone of any level of fitness which means that they are faster than most cyclists, especially commuters with heavier bikes and heavier loads. Unlike motorbikes, they cannot be ridden faster than 20mph/32kph so they cannot keep up with traffic most of the time so if they took the lane all of the time, they would slow that lane.

Unlike operators of "real" motorized vehicles, for which there is licencing and training involved, anyone (including those who have had their licences suspended because of DUI, now you know why there are so many parked outside bars) can buy and operate ebikes: just buy the ebike and a helmet (in Ontario, there is no option for adults not to use helmets, unlike bicycles) and off you go.

The laws have addresses some aspects of ebikes: they must have pedals (even the scooter-style ones), they are limited to 20mph/32kph and the operator must wear a helmet (there may be specific helmet rules too but I'm not aware of them) but (as far as I know) the laws in Ontario have not addressed whether or not they can use cycling infrastructure. (I've seen one fellow a couple of times, riding on the boulevard!) Our city has recently amended a bylaw to allow cycling on certain specified boulevards, the idea behind this is to help the city's road department more quickly develop cycling infrastructure by taking existing wide boulevards or modifying existing boulevards to bike-lane width and making them official cycling infrastructure. Unless ebikes are forbidden in law or bylaw from using cycling infrastructure, then we may see them on these boulevards, potentially travelling at 32kph beside pedestrians. We really only have a couple of MUPs in town but would an ebike be allowed on these with cyclists, pedestrians, children and dog walkers?

Personally, I would like to see throttle controlled ebikes modified as follows: no pedals (apparently, the ones installed are a joke anyway and if you make a moderately leaned turn, you could hit the pedal on the ground thereby losing control), licenced (both the bike and the user), forbidden from using cycling infrastructure. Or, like Europe, forbidden for sale. Secondly, I would like to see pedal-assist ebikes: limited to 12mph/20kph (which I think is plenty fast for a commuter or casual rider), allowed for use on cycling infrastructure and helmets required for all ages (given that a casual cyclist might only be able to cycle at 10-15kph under their own power, pedal-assist ebikes would enable them to travel faster than their fitness would otherwise enable them to do).

In this scenario, I would be comfortable sharing the cycling infrastructure with pedal-assist ebikes and the road with throttled ebikes.