I'm partially deaf (since birth). I can barely hear in crowds and in certain types of rooms (I'm okay in very small groups). It can be painfully obvious. I think that kills my social life more than riding a bike. Truth to tell, I don't think much about the bike part.

I do own a car, just don't use it much. Would much rather ride. Some of my co-workers don't think I own a car, I know because they're surprised when they find out.

I think that saying you can weed people out if they don't want to date you will have you weeding out a lot of people who WOULD be open minded enough but just haven't ever met anyone who is a full time bicycler.

Sure, there's a social stigma. Every week since I started commuting I have gotten comments at work on it... occasionally complimentary but usually teasing ("Woah almost didn't see you in that [neon orange] shirt!" or some variation on that is a favorite). I don't let it bother me, but I'd be crazy to say there's no stigma.

But you can't blame people when they've had no experience with an adult using a bicycle for transportation. Bicycles are USUALLY something that phases out with teenagerhood, so seeing someone not much past that (early 20's) makes most people automatically think "Here's someone who hasn't grown up yet."

Get a tandem and offer to pick up the date. That might be a somewhat better way of weeding them out... if they're willing to give it a shot, good sign. If they won't even consider a short ride (a couple miles to the nearest movie theater), forget it.

i heven't had a lot of problems with the opposite sex. bike dates rock. i do have problems with people like this. dude, so what. are you offended at the lifestyle choice some people have made? i guess what i'm trying to say is i'm tired of people, once finding out i'm car free by choice, feel obliged to defend why they and others have a car. like i give a sh** why you think you need a car.

Ummm - I think you might have missed my point. I'm not offended by anyone's lifestyle choice. Live in a mud hut if you like, more power to you. Rock yourself out on bike dates, cool with me. The original quote was that "no one needs a car in this country". That is an absurd blanket statement that defies common sense, and is indefensible.

Try getting groceries for a family of 4 on your bike. Try living in a rural area and getting anything done on the ranch or farm on your bike. Try living anywhere else but stacked on top of one another in a city. The country is a big place my friend, and everyone's needs are different. A lot of people need their cars to make a living and feed their families.

All I'm trying to point out is that just because YOU don't need one, doesn't mean one or two of the other 320 million folks that live in this country don't,either.

As an aside, you can take your snotty attitude somewhere else, I did nothing to deserve it.

Like I give a ***** about what you think I need or don't need.

John D.

I don't have any problems dating either since I live within a stone throw from New York City. I have not been successful living in New Jersey because everyone has cars and you're an outcast here if you don't drive.

If you have a car in Manhattan, you're either very rich or very poor. Owning a car in New York city is quite expensive and a parking garage montly fee is like paying rent in another state. If you're not making good money in the city, a car will take so much of your income per month, you'll be living right on the edge.

A guy I know just got married to a very young good looking girl. Both live in NYC, have jobs that pay over 100k and neither have cars. I can't tell you how many lawyers and well paid execs in New York City don't have cars. It's a huge hassle to own a car in the city because parking is a nightmare and you're much better taking a cab or the subway. It's one of the few cities where you can actually pick up really hot looking girls without a car. Of couse, you also better have a nice place and a good paying job certainly goes a long way but a car is not necessary.

I have looked at the Craiglist and Yahoo site for dating and the poster is correct. Men are expected to have wheels and make lots of money. Lets understand that most of these girls posting on those sites for the most part are just creating wish lists of ideals they will probably never get. The millionaire next door is not young, dress flashy, spend lots of money in shopping malls each week or drive an expensive car. In fact, guys that do the above are usually loaded with debt, living paycheck to paycheck and walk around with a wallet full of maxed out credit cards.

Ah..YOu have a car, then the next step is how yuppie a car is it..You progress from BMW to whatever is yuppier...just a trap...
I have car for its function, not its status...If not have one would make no difference in the status game, other than life would change.
Sure my wife would not want a no car life, but she is not status obsessed either..She is a supporter of public transit just as I am ..
HOw about a dating service for bikers that reflects our attitudes about the importance of the car culture..Sure there are plenty of women bike commuters who would appreciate that kind of service. and appreciate a guy who encouraged them to seek out alternative transprotation and put the car culture in its place.

Biglossman -- I don't think anyone here said no one needs a car, I said 75% can probably do without one, I think something like 5% of Americans right now are farmers. And I know people in areas that are pretty rural and a bike's been a great way for them to get around without being put in the poorhouse by keeping a car.

When the oil crash comes, Americans will *find* ways to get farm chores done without a car. People did that once.

Groceries for a family of 4 are easy-peasy on a bike, you don't go once every 2 weeks, you go when needed, a couple of times a week maybe. Easy. If you're out in the boonies, you might be bartering around, raising some of your own stuff, goin' huntin' etc. So easy in town and easy in the country.

And bike dates RUUUUULLEE!!!

dude, sorry if my attitude seemed snotty but do you really think nobody thought about that before. and getting groceries for a family of four, how about hauling food for an entire food not bombs dinner by bike. low income people get along without a car and their lives are a lot harder than yours. its a given that everyones needs are different. i had the attitude because you thought it your place to remind us of that so you could validate your own car use. by the by i lived in the rural midwest without a car, its doable and fun. for every reason you give that people need a car there alternatives and will power.

ps-i love you bigbossman, even if you are californian

Hey Secret, there are what, 5 people in Portland who aren't from California?

actually, most transplants i've met are from the midwest and east coast. very few californians(in the sheme of things).

by the by, i love california. i lived in monterey for a year

and I thought we get all the Midwesterners and East Coasters out here!

I was up in Bellingham for about a week, it was cool. I saw the biggest garden spider and web I've ever seen there.

yeah, lots of spiders. big ones. but they dont get stigmatized for not driving. lucky

What??? how illegal is that???

I like this idea the best. Early posts complained that the young lady wouldn't pick them up in her car.
If you're not into cars you should not expect you date to drive you.

its not illegal. if they have one of the requirements of the job be you must have reliable transportation then they dont have to give you the job. its the same kind of requirement, say, the applicant must be able to lift 30 pounds type of thing.

There's a huge thread about the issue of employers requiring you to have a car, we really talked that one out.

Ever think of calling a cab??

A few years after graduating college I bought a brand spanking new SUV (loaded Nissan pathfinder-everything except leather). I figured I'd be all kinds of (bling bling)happy-not! The payments were killer on my budget, not being a big saver in the first place. Now I have the SUV paid off, my college debt (mostly)paid off, along with allmost all of my credit cards (I'd had to charge tuition to them at one point)-ugh.

My truck now only has about 50K miles on it, used mostly for shopping too far to bike for, and going on some weekend trips, along wih the occassional work commute.

When I bought the SUV, I was just getting back into cycling for recreation-and hadn't considered how much fun it actually is as transportation also.

Currently I'm buying some allmost new SUV tires from a co-worker for 20$ea-at the same time I just did a drivetrain upgrade on my brevet bike for $400! Priorities!

I've pondered going no car, but I figure keeping it now doese come in handy from time to time. I don't use it when I don't have too.

--Social stigma&dating. Well there's certain women I wouldn't date (that's OK, they're not interested in me anyways). I think I have more problems (w/dating) by being a heavy cigarrette smoker, than being heavy into cycling (and outdoorsy in general). Public transport (around here) is perfect for being car free, and a few of my friends are only now getting there drivers licenes for the first time-in there early thirties!

Look, I'm not trying to validate anything. All I'm saying is this - the satement was made that no one really needs a car in the USA. It is my position that of the 320+ million people living here, that can't possibly be true. You may not need one, maybe I don't need one, either. But the statement that NOBODY needs one flies in the face of common sense.

That's all - that's it.

John D.

P.S. - I love you too, man..... but you can't have my beer. :D

I don't believe it was your post, but take a look at #2 - "Cars are more social requirement in the USA than a true necessity"

John D.

There's definitely a stigma, not just from people of opposite sex.There are a suprising number of young ladies that dont mind me being without a car Ive found too,more than I ever thought.It doesnt bother me at all though, I dont have any problems getting around or doing anything Id do with a car really, and if I get judged for it oh well, thats their issue not mine.Life's too short to have to live according to somebody else's standards and lifestyle expectations, especially when they are unsustainable.All in all, most folks readily admit they couldnt or wouldnt even attempt it and marvel at some of the places I ride, if they only knew how easy it really is.

Prettymuch, and its done more harm to the US than good.Urban sprawl and its problems will be a huge huge liabilty now that we are in the end game of the age of oil.Especially when the moment of realization thats it a problem is about 1 minute before it happens.

Dude - MOTORCYCLE! You use less gas and the chicks like riding on the back as you zoom down the road on your Jap supersportbike. It gives you that "dangerous and daring" edge girls like. :D