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Actual Measured Width

Old 10-02-17, 01:38 PM
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srestrepo
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Actual Measured Width

Hello All,
i was wondering if anyone could help and measure out the height of their Schwalble Marathon Winter studded in 700x35.

i'm trying to figure out (without purchasing a tire and subsequently having to return it) if it will fit on my bike.

the bike is a GT Grade with discs - i'm currently running 700X32 Conti 4 seasons and i want to figure out if the schwable 700x35's will fit my bike.

it was cold this morning and i just had a thought, i might as well get ready for whats coming now than scrambling trying to figure things out later.

any help is highly appreciated

Sebastian
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Old 10-02-17, 02:37 PM
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Just use the ETRTO, that's why it exists.

https://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/size_markings
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Old 10-02-17, 02:48 PM
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God no, tire sizing is all over the place.

I like to get my tires from REI or Performance bike locally, because it is easy for me to return them there.

I find that winter tires tend to be a little smaller than rated in general.

Here is a grade with 40mm tires on it. Pretty snug fit. I'm going to guess 35 winter tires would not be a problem.

Carbon GT Grade Max Tire Clearance - The Riding Gravel Forum

Or from someone who measured the clearance at the frame:
Rear chain stay 46.3mm
Fork 44.9mm
I have Clement USH 700x35 on stock rims and they measure 34.33mm
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Old 10-02-17, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
Just use the ETRTO, that's why it exists.

https://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/size_markings
I'd like to say that that's the case, but i have had 28mm GP4000sII's that measured out more like 30 MM and i currently run 32mm Conti GP4seasons that are just over 31mm but not close to 32.

i dont care. i'm not a gram counter, if i wanted to lose weight, i've got about 80 pounds i could stand to lose out of the engine of said bike. i just dont want to spend the money and find out that they dont fit my bike.

i'd like to get a studded winter tire but the reviews for the Nokian a10 don't read too promising with so few studs. and the Schwalbe marathon winter seems the best bet but only come in as narrow as 32mm.
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Old 10-02-17, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by srestrepo View Post
I'd like to say that that's the case, but i have had 28mm GP4000sII's that measured out more like 30 MM and i currently run 32mm Conti GP4seasons that are just over 31mm but not close to 32.

i dont care. i'm not a gram counter, if i wanted to lose weight, i've got about 80 pounds i could stand to lose out of the engine of said bike. i just dont want to spend the money and find out that they dont fit my bike.

i'd like to get a studded winter tire but the reviews for the Nokian a10 don't read too promising with so few studs. and the Schwalbe marathon winter seems the best bet but only come in as narrow as 32mm.
I think the error is that you guys are using the "c" value which measures rim width rather than ETRTO which measures tyre width.

The type of miscalculation is in the same category as stating the more narrow tyres roll better than wider tires.

See pages 7 and 22 for the width-measuring error and the wide v. narrow difference.

https://www.schwalbe.com/en/cataloge...fo-2015_GB.pdf

Last edited by acidfast7; 10-02-17 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 10-02-17, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by srestrepo View Post
I'd like to say that that's the case, but i have had 28mm GP4000sII's that measured out more like 30 MM and i currently run 32mm Conti GP4seasons that are just over 31mm but not close to 32.

i dont care. i'm not a gram counter, if i wanted to lose weight, i've got about 80 pounds i could stand to lose out of the engine of said bike. i just dont want to spend the money and find out that they dont fit my bike.

i'd like to get a studded winter tire but the reviews for the Nokian a10 don't read too promising with so few studs. and the Schwalbe marathon winter seems the best bet but only come in as narrow as 32mm.
Also, that's not a Schwalbe tyre, that an overextended AG returning to a market without knowing what they're doing.
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Old 10-02-17, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
I think the error is that you guys are using the "c" value which measures rim width rather than ETRTO which measures tyre width.
No, the problem is that the same tire will have a different width on different rims. The ETRTO size only tells you the width that the manufacturer claims it will be on a nominal rim.

I have exactly the same experience that srestrepo reports with 700x28 (ETRTO: 28-622) Conti GP 4000S II and 700x32 (ETRTO: 32-622) tires. In both cases I'm using 23mm (outer width) rims. However, I've found that Conti GP 4000S II measure true to size if I use a 19mm wide rim. Near as I can tell, Conti expects you to use skinny rims with the GP4000S II and wide rims with the GP 4 Seasons, which kind of makes sense.
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Old 10-02-17, 07:02 PM
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Any experience with schwalbe tires? I have 17mm inner diameter rims. Like I said, I'd hate to buy a pair only to have to return them because they don't fit. The tires I know will fit for sure simply don't have great reviews. This being my first winter attempting to ride through the snow, I'd rather wet on the side of caution with better reviewed tires versus experimental or newer tires i.e. the 45nrth xerxes
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Old 10-03-17, 09:43 AM
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The only Schwalbe tires I've currently got are 700x32 Marathon Supremes and they measure about 31.5 on my Alex CXD6 rims, which happen to have a 17mm inner width.
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Old 10-03-17, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by srestrepo View Post
I'd like to say that that's the case, but i have had 28mm GP4000sII's that measured out more like 30 MM and i currently run 32mm Conti GP4seasons that are just over 31mm but not close to 32.

i dont care. i'm not a gram counter, if i wanted to lose weight, i've got about 80 pounds i could stand to lose out of the engine of said bike. i just dont want to spend the money and find out that they dont fit my bike.
Exactly. my 32mm gatorskins are the same size as my 28mm GP4000sII.
(My 32mm 4 seasons are about 1mm bigger than those two - well, one measures 31mm, the other measures 32mm. Go figure).

I have a bike where I can put on a 28mm conti 4 season easily, but the 28mm conti GP4000sII is not even close to fitting the frame.

either way, the Grade can fit a 40mm (if you push it), so you should be good...
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Old 10-03-17, 11:46 AM
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Even if you find somebody with the same tires to give you an answer, it won't necessarily be what you're looking for unless they have the same rim width.

FYI I have velocity dyad rims with I think 19mm internal width, and when I was concerned about pushing the width envelope in my cross check, I had Marathon Supremes at 700x50. But on those rims, the width ended up at about 45mm anyways. After wearing those out I got Mondial 700x42, but they also end up a little narrower than rated.

So I would guess that, unless you have an exceptionally wide rim, the tires you're interested in would inflate to a little narrower than rated, and you'll probably be OK.

But no guarantees of course.
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Old 10-03-17, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
Even if you find somebody with the same tires to give you an answer, it won't necessarily be what you're looking for unless they have the same rim width.

FYI I have velocity dyad rims with I think 19mm internal width, and when I was concerned about pushing the width envelope in my cross check, I had Marathon Supremes at 700x50. But on those rims, the width ended up at about 45mm anyways. After wearing those out I got Mondial 700x42, but they also end up a little narrower than rated.

So I would guess that, unless you have an exceptionally wide rim, the tires you're interested in would inflate to a little narrower than rated, and you'll probably be OK.

But no guarantees of course.

Makes sense. I did read Sheldons article on inner diameter and of course it makes sense that a narrower rim would generally produce a narrower inflated tire. I guess I'll just bite the bullet and see what happens.

Anyone care to place any bets on how bad winter is gonna be for the northern US?
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Old 10-04-17, 02:01 PM
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I don't find that rim width makes much difference in tire width. I struggle to measure any difference in my 700c wheels which have a 3mm difference in with for my wheels (16mm to 19mm internal)

Just for kicks I just went out to the garage to experiment.
I measured some extreme widths - 60mm tires. With a rim variation of (30mm to 24mm). I could measure a 2mm difference in width. So maybe 1mm increase in width with 3mm increase in rim size?
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Old 10-04-17, 02:05 PM
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if it helps, I don't think they run large. I have the 40mm version which fit fine on a bike I have. but when I put 40mm Proteks on the same bike I had to do some modifications cuz they measured out at 43mm
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Old 10-04-17, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
I don't find that rim width makes much difference in tire width. I struggle to measure any difference in my 700c wheels which have a 3mm difference in with for my wheels (16mm to 19mm internal)

Just for kicks I just went out to the garage to experiment.
I measured some extreme widths - 60mm tires. With a rim variation of (30mm to 24mm). I could measure a 2mm difference in width. So maybe 1mm increase in width with 3mm increase in rim size?
I wonder what impacts in in height that may have on the tire. Don't go and measure it for my sake, but I assume it makes the tire taller offsetting the differences in width.
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Old 10-04-17, 10:14 PM
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This is a visual I saw a while ago and just went to find on Google.



I suspect that the width changes less with stiffer sidewalls.
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Old 10-05-17, 06:26 AM
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wow, thanks Andy. That graphic says that the width of the rim makes more of a difference than tire size - especially when it comes to tire height.
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Old 10-05-17, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
No, the problem is that the same tire will have a different width on different rims. The ETRTO size only tells you the width that the manufacturer claims it will be on a nominal rim.
The same brand/model/and ETRTO size of tire on the same rim does not guarantee that the mounted/inflated width will be the same. I recently replaced the Schwalbe Marathon Racer 406-40 tires on my trike, first the rear and then, 6 months later, the front. The fronts are visibly narrower than the rear. Different production runs?
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Old 10-05-17, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoopdriver View Post
The same brand/model/and ETRTO size of tire on the same rim does not guarantee that the mounted/inflated width will be the same. I recently replaced the Schwalbe Marathon Racer 406-40 tires on my trike, first the rear and then, 6 months later, the front. The fronts are visibly narrower than the rear. Different production runs?
Possibly. I've also heard claims that over time a tire will stretch a bit, so the rear could be a bit wider now than it was six months ago. And of course there could be some manufacturing variation between the rims.
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Old 10-06-17, 08:10 AM
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Based on switching tires around on 700C AND 29ER bikes the marathons run narrow by about a size. It is your money an taking advice on the internet without sources is risky, but if it were me I would order them with confidence.

The 35s fit on my daily commuter under the fenders with the same clearance as the 32s I replaced. The 37s I put on my fargo in the summer are ridiculously small. I also think they tend to run a bit smaller in diameter, shorter sidewalls.
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Old 10-06-17, 08:56 AM
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There is a thought (for which I don't have a citation) that nominal tire sizes are meant to reflect the maximum width, given production variances and differing rim widths. This do-not-exceed dimension should then let you order a tire and know that it will fit a bike with certain brake and chainstay clearances with room to spare. (Recent trends toward wider rims have thrown that out the window, and now some tires measure wider than their nominal size.)

I bring that up because with snow tires and knobby tires in general, you need to account for the width and height that the knobs add, and that they can easily pick up snow and mud and rocks, so manufacturers might still be inclined to err on the smaller side. I don't think my Suomi Mount & Grounds measure up to the nominal width, either, and they're not exactly on narrow rims.
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