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Hood Braking Sufficiency for Urban Traffic

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Hood Braking Sufficiency for Urban Traffic

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Old 06-12-18, 12:03 PM
  #51  
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A flat bullhorn ,, rather than one that slopes down from the center , the bar end reverse levers
can have their cables under the tape, and also interrupt the housing with the bar center cross levers ..

but then its still cable all the way..

square coiled wire housing is typically used for most brakes ..

Recently , for cable disc brakes a low compression housing
akin to indexed shifter housing, but adding a braided sheath of kevlar
around kit to reduce compression induced expansion is made..

perhaps build with what is cheaper first, replace it if you are dissatisfied.


..




..

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Old 06-12-18, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
Alright, we disagree. I'd encourage anyone debating between these to options to do their own research.
Hey, nothing wrong with everyone having their own preferences, and I agree on people doing their own research. I'm just trying to let the OP know that the "suicide levers" name isn't really accurate.
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Old 06-13-18, 07:58 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post
On my bike with these levers, I often ride with my hands on the top bends, a little bit behind the hoods. From this position I can reach the underside of the additional levers and pull them up, essentially squeezing my hand toward the bar. It's super comfortable, easy to modulate, and there is basically no flex because you are close to the pivot point.
This is how I like to ride the old school safety levers. (see what I did there?) Works well, and allows a wider hand spacing than newer interrupter levers.


Lastly, the interrupter levers mean you are braking with your hands located pretty close to the stem, which is anything from ideal in terms of feel and maneuverability.
Right. Those here promoting them on drop bars would likely question, maybe even laugh at or ridicule, any fixie rider who had their flat bars chopped down to a length that left the identical narrow hand spacing interrupter levers on drop bars provides.

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Old 06-13-18, 08:39 AM
  #54  
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A lot of folks are advocating "safety levers" or "cross/interrupter levers" which are cool, I suppose, but according to St. Sheldon, you should not be in the habit of riding with your hands so close together because you lack overall control of the bike.

I don't have these on my bike; I am always either on the hoods (5% of the time) or on the drops (95% of the time). I heard from a co-worker that core strengthening is the best workout for "offseason" conditioning. I hated drops at first but after 4 months on my 1st drop-bar bike, I love it. I have especially been focusing lately on, not speed, but good riding posture. I have noticed an increase in comfort and endurance.

Everyone is different but I suggest to the OP to get strong before making tons of changes, then again, see my signature -

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Old 06-13-18, 08:58 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by davei1980 View Post
You should maybe consider switching to bullhorns with bar-end levers.

I am thinking maybe I go for a nice CF bar like this 25.4 one. But one thing I don't like about bullhorns is their lack of flair.
I see all my drop bars have at least small amount of flair built in, and that is very good for my wrist and arm comfort.
I have a rando drop bar that has alot of flair, and it is extreme comfort for my wrist arm and shoulder.

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Old 06-13-18, 11:54 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by davei1980 View Post
A lot of folks are advocating "safety levers" or "cross/interrupter levers" which are cool, I suppose, but according to St. Sheldon, you should not be in the habit of riding with your hands so close together because you lack overall control of the bike.
I'm a safety maven, but I'm not buying this. There's plenty of evidence that shows this to be untrue.
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Old 06-13-18, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
Cyclocross levers are definitely better - they're more reliable, more rugged, have better control (less flex/slop), and enable stronger braking. There's a reason they call those old ones "suicide levers". There's a reason they're no longer made.
They're not?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Sunrace-B...&wl13=&veh=sem
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Old 06-13-18, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
I stand corrected.
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Old 06-13-18, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by davei1980 View Post
A lot of folks are advocating "safety levers" or "cross/interrupter levers" which are cool, I suppose, but according to St. Sheldon, you should not be in the habit of riding with your hands so close together because you lack overall control of the bike.
Certainly not a blanket rule. I do have less control on the tops, but often having my head higher makes it overall a safer position. When I have to do tight maneuvering I'll get down in the drops.
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Old 06-13-18, 01:41 PM
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I already tried those last year. I learned they would not work on my Nitto bars. The hood levers would touch the bar, with the suicide levers are setup.
I conclusion was these type of Levers are designed for a very specific type of drop bars only. Only on these bars would these levers be safe.

People put them on, cluelessly, and talk trash about them.

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Old 06-13-18, 01:45 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
Interesting. I didn't know they're still made. But I have a pile of them in my junk bin. Some Sunlite stuff is made well enough, and some is junk.
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Old 06-13-18, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
Certainly not a blanket rule. I do have less control on the tops, but often having my head higher makes it overall a safer position. When I have to do tight maneuvering I'll get down in the drops.
I have shorter sausage fingers and hands. Hoods were my best option I had but even that was far from ideal. I went to low drop flared bars like the cowchipper and all of my control and braking problems of being on the hoods went away. I now ride in the drops 95% of the time except for a stretch/change of pace and all is perfect. My hood experience is the same as before but the drops are perfect. Obviously that is not for everyone. I have HY/RD brakes which are easy to pull, not full hydraulic but close.. If I was in pure urban situation like NYC or Chicago for example, I'd be on something higher and more upright but that is me.

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Old 06-13-18, 11:08 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
Hydro disks would do the job.
If "the job" is leaking or developing a bubble, then sure.
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Old 06-13-18, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
Some Sunlite stuff is made well enough, and some is junk.
Yet another reason to ban further use of the word "sun" in bicycle component manufacturer's names. Then exile SunRun to somewhere on the surface of the actual sun.
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Old 06-14-18, 12:29 AM
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Its hard to beat flat bar controls in high density traffic.

Most flat bar brake levers can be adjusted for reach, and most v-brakes, or dual calipers should be strong enough to lock up the wheels, even with weak hands.
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Old 06-14-18, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by KD5NRH View Post
If "the job" is leaking or developing a bubble, then sure.
Not a fan? My mt bike hydros work flawlessly. Shimano makes some good ones. YRMV.
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Old 06-14-18, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
Certainly not a blanket rule. I do have less control on the tops, but often having my head higher makes it overall a safer position. When I have to do tight maneuvering I'll get down in the drops.
There's a Jimmy Johns delivery rider who has a fixie with pista bars; I see him all over downtown with his hands on top, so close together they're touching the stem. I feel like telling him "get some different handlebars if you can't ride on the drops!"

I just feel like he's going to hurt someone.

He has a coworker who rides a fixie also with some ULTRA wide MTB flat bars which are purple. Looks dumb but at least it's safe!
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Old 06-14-18, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
Not a fan? My mt bike hydros work flawlessly. Shimano makes some good ones. YRMV.
Last leaky pair I had to deal with were Shimanos. End result was having to replace both levers because the seals alone were out of stock everywhere. Demand for replacement seals being that high isn't a good sign.
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Old 06-14-18, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I'm a safety maven, but I'm not buying this. There's plenty of evidence that shows this to be untrue.
It's not that it's totally unsafe to ride with your hands close to the stem, just that you generally have less control.

Going back to the motorcycle world, a lot of racers like their bars mounted fairly wide, because it gives them better feel and control.

And while we are talking motorcycles, hydraulic brakes on bicycles do seem like needless complication. Not that they shouldn't exist, just that people should consider if they really need them given their situation.
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Old 06-14-18, 01:52 PM
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Right, with your hands right next to the stem, you have less control, but making a blanket rule against it is as silly as saying you should never use your front brake.

I bled the line on a hydraulic brake once, and it wasn't bad. I have no craving for hydraulic brakes, but I'm not convinced they're wildly complex.
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Old 06-14-18, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by KD5NRH View Post
Last leaky pair I had to deal with were Shimanos. End result was having to replace both levers because the seals alone were out of stock everywhere. Demand for replacement seals being that high isn't a good sign.
Ok, point taken. My only experience is that mt bike hydros have been great for me, shimano and avids.
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Old 06-14-18, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
Right, with your hands right next to the stem, you have less control, but making a blanket rule against it is as silly as saying you should never use your front brake.
Not quite as silly. Saying you should never use the front brake to stop is more like saying you should avoid shifting your body weight while turning. Not only is it OK, it's the right way to do it.

My first CX bike had cross levers and I liked them a lot until I learned how to properly adjust cantilever brakes. They definitely give you more leverage, and they're not so close to the center that they make steering difficult. I wouldn't think they'd be in any way necessary with a well set up dual pivot caliper. With cantilevers, I can see it. Some of those, especially the low profile models, feel a bit weak now matter how well dialed in they are.

FWIW, I love the Shimano RS785 hydraulic disc brakes on my Jake. A good rim brake will stop the bike as well in most conditions, but the hydraulics just feel so nice and they really do require less hand pressure. As a heavy guy with small hands, I appreciate that. I'll admit that some foul words may have been heard in my garage whilst I tried to get those last bits of air out of the lines when I installed them though. The second time through, replacing a front caliper I broke trying to get the pistons unstuck, went much smoother. Maybe I learned something. So, yeah, not quite as maintenance free. When they're working you forget all about that.
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Old 06-14-18, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
Right, with your hands right next to the stem, you have less control, but making a blanket rule against it is as silly as saying you should never use your front brake.

I bled the line on a hydraulic brake once, and it wasn't bad. I have no craving for hydraulic brakes, but I'm not convinced they're wildly complex.
I would shy away from these type of disc brakes just because I hang my bike up in storage vertically and I hear it's bad for the brakes to do that on a hydrolic system.
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Old 06-14-18, 07:54 PM
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My two cents here is that I commute not in a wildly busy place like NYC but rather in a city where people just aren't used to cyclists. Lots of people dont know what to do so I end up driving cautiously. I ride a GT Grade disc that I've upgraded the brakes to TRP Spyres with 160 mm rotors and upgraded the drivetrain to 105 on drop bars. I spend thr big majority of my time in the hoods.

I'm 250 pounds plus the bike, rack and panniers. Not entirely a small feat stopping me at the end of a slightly downhill road... Admittedly, they don't allow me to do an endo nor do they stop as hard as my old mtb hydraulics, but they stop in a hurry and I dont feel the need for more. Installation was easy peezy. I really enjoy them enough to think that upgrading to hydraulic may not be worth it to me... for a while anyway. And they look kinda nice with the carbon arm and such.
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Old 06-15-18, 10:56 AM
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I'll just throw this out there. I'm using a vintage bike with center pull caliper brakes. Pretty much the weakest and most fiddly brakes every made. I recently moved to Kool Stop salmon brake pads, and my braking got soooooooo much better. With a full squeeze on the brake levers, I can emergency stop the bike on the steepest of hills, brakes squealing all the way, back tire leaving a long skid mark. The difference is remarkable.
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