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-   -   No Helmet -- Nice! (https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/1149320-no-helmet-nice.html)

AlmostGreenGuy 07-12-18 11:18 AM

I'm old enough to have grown up without helmets, so my perspective is probably effected by my age. I don't bother to wear a helmet when running errands, or sporting around my tiny sleepy rural village, which gets very little motor vehicle traffic. On a Sunday evening, I can ride for an entire hour, and maybe encounter one car passing me, or perhaps a piece of farm equipment. I never wear a helmet when it's over 85 degrees, because it feels like I'm stuck in a toaster oven.

I do normally wear a helmet when it makes a lot of sense to do so, such as my 30-mile round trip commute on a state highway. Tractor trailers sometimes pass me, and motorists who are more interested in their smart phones and than the safety of cyclists.

jamesflood1 07-12-18 11:34 AM

If you ride bike without wearing helmet there might be a risk. So you need to ride bike to wear a helmet.

HBCruiser1 07-12-18 11:56 AM

I live in a beach community. 98% of the people don't wear helmets and I don't see bodies littered all over the place. I'm a live-let-live kind of guy. If you want to wear a helmet, wear one. If you don't, don't.
What makes me angry is the people who do, reprimanding someone who doesn't. I've noticed it's mostly women. I've threatened a guy or 2 that if he doesn't shut up about me not wearing a helmet I'm going to run him off the road. People need to mind their own business.

Doohickie 07-12-18 12:14 PM


Originally Posted by RubeRad (Post 20439975)
I have taken to ditching the helmet for errand rides, no more than 1-2mi down our main street with bike lanes, wide empty sidewalks, many stoplights and 35 mph speed limits (posted anyways), so traffic is pretty calm. Especially at the times I'm out running errands, which is not rush hour. Always nice.

My commute though is along bigger, faster roads, full of cagers hellbent on 'winning' the race they seem to think they're in. I admit that probably there's only a negligible chance I'd be in an accident where a helmet would make a difference, but it certainly doesn't hurt anything to wear it.

For what it's worth, the one time I actually needed a helmet was right at the end of my street. Cracked it clean through. Weird things happen.

Doohickie 07-12-18 12:28 PM


Originally Posted by alan s (Post 20443265)
If the Dutch have such great reflexes, why aren’t they in the World Cup final?

Harsh, man.

In my perception, the Dutch exception is this: They're riding upright city bikes, versus drop bar or flat bar bikes. If your posture puts you over, or just behind, the steerer, you are much more likely to endo over the bars if you suddenly stop for any reason, while someone on an upright bike, well behind the steerer, can brace against the handlebars without going over them. The other thing is that the average bike ride in the Netherlands is quite short; I've heard under three miles for most rides. Here in the states they tend to be several times that, which means, compared to the Dutch, we *do* look like we're in a race since we need to cover more distance.

Doohickie 07-12-18 12:30 PM


Originally Posted by HBCruiser1 (Post 20443673)
I live in a beach community. 98% of the people don't wear helmets and I don't see bodies littered all over the place. I'm a live-let-live kind of guy. If you want to wear a helmet, wear one. If you don't, don't.
What makes me angry is the people who do, reprimanding someone who doesn't. I've noticed it's mostly women. I've threatened a guy or 2 that if he doesn't shut up about me not wearing a helmet I'm going to run him off the road. People need to mind their own business.

If they're riding beach cruisers, they're also part of the Dutch exception.

Bikewolf 07-12-18 01:41 PM


Originally Posted by RubeRad (Post 20439897)
I commuted without a helmet yesterday, and it was really nice. I realized, a couple blocks away from the house, that I had forgotten my helmet

Tell me about it. What do you think of this one: putting a helmet/skull cap and then leaving without the helmet itself :-)

I wonder which distraction is next. Going to sleep with a helmet on? (Some do have a night lamp.)

Stadjer 07-13-18 02:25 AM


Originally Posted by alan s (Post 20443265)
If the Dutch have such great reflexes, why aren’t they in the World Cup final?

Let me dignify that question with a serious answer. I can think of many wrong Dutch reflexes when it comes to the national football team, but the question should of course be why such a small population knows so much success in important international sports that people wonder where they are when they didn't qualify. One of the reasons is that Dutch kids don't need 'soccer moms' to play football or another sport. The bicycle makes them independent, they can go anywhere to play or train by themselves.

I guess cycling is just one of those things people get very good at when they do it daily from a very young age to well into their teens, also the people who are clumsy in many other things. They don't fall off because of bumps in the road or something and if they fall off, because of texting on icy streets while drunk for example, they don't hit their head. It becomes second nature like walking.


Originally Posted by ksryder (Post 20442991)
Indeed. Won't somebody please think of the children?

I know it sounds lame, kids are often used as an argument against things adults to want to see. But the kids have to start young and I have no kids myself but I am in traffic with 4 and 5 year olds. If that environment isn't safe enough for experienced adults without helmets, it's not safe enough for those kids, with or without a helmet. Those kids got to be there, otherwise traffic will be a mess in 10 and 20 years.

alan s 07-13-18 08:20 AM


Originally Posted by Stadjer (Post 20444844)
Let me dignify that question with a serious answer. I can think of many wrong Dutch reflexes when it comes to the national football team, but the question should of course be why such a small population knows so much success in important international sports that people wonder where they are when they didn't qualify. One of the reasons is that Dutch kids don't need 'soccer moms' to play football or another sport. The bicycle makes them independent, they can go anywhere to play or train by themselves.

I guess cycling is just one of those things people get very good at when they do it daily from a very young age to well into their teens, also the people who are clumsy in many other things. They don't fall off because of bumps in the road or something and if they fall off, because of texting on icy streets while drunk for example, they don't hit their head. It becomes second nature like walking.

I know it sounds lame, kids are often used as an argument against things adults to want to see. But the kids have to start young and I have no kids myself but I am in traffic with 4 and 5 year olds. If that environment isn't safe enough for experienced adults without helmets, it's not safe enough for those kids, with or without a helmet. Those kids got to be there, otherwise traffic will be a mess in 10 and 20 years.

Here’s an article that discusses the issue of Dutch helmet use. No mention of catlike reflexes.

https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/why...r-helmets.html

DiabloScott 07-13-18 09:26 AM


Originally Posted by alan s (Post 20445174)
Here’s an article that discusses the issue of Dutch helmet use. No mention of catlike reflexes.

It appears that transportation cycling in Nederlands is more like walking. You're not mixing it up with other traffic, you're not going very fast, you're wearing street clothes, you're using well-maintained dedicated roads/sidewalks.

Stadjer 07-13-18 12:19 PM


Originally Posted by alan s (Post 20445174)


Here’s an article that discusses the issue of Dutch helmet use. No mention of catlike reflexes.

https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/why...r-helmets.html

Nice to hear from someone who has cycled for a while in the city I live in and the author means well, but gives the wrong impression on a few points. The Dutch people he quotes are actually debating global cycling with foreigners, not Dutch cycling. There is no Dutch to Dutch helmet debate, it's just not a subject that is debated here between Dutch on Dutch cycling, Dutch cycling safety debates are about absence of lights, mopeds, texting riders, elderly on fast E-bikes, Eastern European truck drivers and earplugs, not about helmets. They give (good) reasons why they don't wear helmet, but these are invented for the sake of the debate, it's not like they reasoned like that before they decided not to wear a helmet, because that decision has never been there to make. They also give good reasons why it shouldn't be policy to encourage helmets but that's not the reason behind the policy, the reason is that the politician proposing it would be ridiculed as a nanny state fanatic out of touch with reality. If you touch their cycling habits you touch their sense of freedom. They are all anarchists on the bike, they don't obey rules because they have to but they obey the ones that make sense, often. And as every helmet debate, because the helmet is the only thing for safety in a crash, it holds the suggestion that the helmet is the difference between beeing safe in a crash and not beeing safe in a crash, which of course it isn't.

It's not about catlike reflexes, it's about the right reflexes.

Jeanne Misner commented: "If the adult driving the bike hit a pebble or tripped up somehow, and the child fell to the pavement, he could have a serious head injury. It would make sense to protect the children."
You don't hit a pebble or trip up somehow.

Jim Gordon backed her up: "One little twig that rolls, a wet plastic bag, an ounce of sand, a few wet leaves or a front tire blowout - any one of these things can slam you down to the pavement incredibly fast during a turn. A front tire blowout slammed my head into the pavement and cause a double shoulder separation. Without a helmet I would have been in a head trauma unit with a half million dollar bill."
I'm not going to discuss the American health care system, but this is an incompetent cyclist. Can't have someone like him cycling on Dutch streets around cycling kids who still got to learn. They'll learn that they can run over little twigts, an ounce of sand, that wet leaves and plastic bags can be slippery but a front tire blowout is no reason to go down.

tony did as well: "Agree re helmets. A few years ago I skidded on a patch of mud and cracked my head on the kerb. Fortunately I was wearing my helmet (which cracked) and since then have always worn a helmet. It was the temple area which hit the kerb, directly over the middle meningeal artery and if that pops, it's probably curtains."
How can you skid on a patch of mud? Wasn't it visible? Did you panic and hit the front brake while trying to steer around it? And why land on your head? It's about active vs passive safety (very limited passive safety), like learning to swim instead of wearing a life vest near water. If you become a good swimmer during childhood, you don't swallow a lot of water when something unexpected happens and you fall in, you just swim to surface and breathe there, and use your limbs to keep your head above the water, that's a good reflex. Not catlike, not superhuman, not genetically Dutch but just trained at a young age. You don't go there where the current is too strong, you don't dive in shallow water head first, you know what you can and can't do and that makes you safe.


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 20445311)
It appears that transportation cycling in Nederlands is more like walking. You're not mixing it up with other traffic, you're not going very fast, you're wearing street clothes, you're using well-maintained dedicated roads/sidewalks.

Yes it is like walking, only at higher speed. Often leisurely, but also 20-25 kph. Sidewalks are used, but usually only at pedestrian pace. Infrastructure is usually wel maintained, but you can't remove an old tree just because the root has caused a bump in the cycle lane. Wet leaves don't get removed immediately, little twigs are common in the autumn, it's branches often, plastic bags are rare but that's for other reasons, there's snow, ice and sometimes black ice. After roadworks they use the cyclists to push the gravel firmly in and make it settle. Sometimes people don't pay attention and fall because they brake or turn sharply on that gravel, like a friend who had a serious shoulder injury for months, but she didn't hit her head.

ExPatTyke 07-13-18 01:11 PM

I finished a bike ride off last Sunday with a trip in an ambulance. My accident happened when I hit a rock or a root, riding at no speed, on a fairly level trail I've ridden quite a few times before.

There's a dent in my helmet, not a big impact, just a smallish dent and a bit of a mark in the coating. Did it save me from concussion, fractured skull, brain injury? No way of telling, but I was home the same night - albeit plastered and on crutches - with my family rather than occupying a much needed hospital bed.

Talking to the ambulance crew and the staff in A&E I got the same impression throughout - they were very pleased I'd worn a helmet. I heard several first hand accounts from medical staff who'd had to deal with the aftermath of brain injuries, including dealing with the cyclists' families.

So, yes, it is a free choice. But - and I really hope this never applies to any of you or your families - if you have to be scraped off the road or trail and patched up by your local hospital wearing that helmet can make everyones' lives much less unpleasant.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...79d406882c.jpg

vja4Him 07-13-18 01:23 PM


Originally Posted by DanBraden (Post 20439923)
Ruh-roh... do you know what a "dog pile" is? You may soon find out because THIS topic is only slightly less contentious than chain maintenance!

Yeah, I sometimes ride sans helmet and, like you, my helmet has a mirror... During the summer though, I value sun protection so I wear a brimmed hat, bigger than a fedora but smaller than a cowboy hat. Also, walking around in my hat is only SLIGHTLY less goofy looking than carrying my helmet like a purse...

When I go shopping, I usually just keep my helmet on !!! I wear a wet towel over my head most of the year (we have sun almost everyday here), baseball cap over the towel with my huge HubBub Mirror attached to the cap, then my helmet over the cap. I do get some strange looks …. Some people even ask what's that "thing" ? They are referring to my "HubBub Mirror" !!! I even keep all of my headgear on when I'm in the bank. I'm surprised security has not asked me to take off my helmet …..

vja4Him 07-13-18 01:45 PM


Originally Posted by ExPatTyke (Post 20445812)
I finished a bike ride off last Sunday with a trip in an ambulance. My accident happened when I hit a rock or a root, riding at no speed, on a fairly level trail I've ridden quite a few times before.

There's a dent in my helmet, not a big impact, just a smallish dent and a bit of a mark in the coating. Did it save me from concussion, fractured skull, brain injury? No way of telling, but I was home the same night - albeit plastered and on crutches - with my family rather than occupying a much needed hospital bed.

Talking to the ambulance crew and the staff in A&E I got the same impression throughout - they were very pleased I'd worn a helmet. I heard several first hand accounts from medical staff who'd had to deal with the aftermath of brain injuries, including dealing with the cyclists' families.

So, yes, it is a free choice. But - and I really hope this never applies to any of you or your families - if you have to be scraped off the road or trail and patched up by your local hospital wearing that helmet can make everyones' lives much less unpleasant.

I always wear a helmet !!! And my HubBub Mirror, which is a life saver too. I've heard stories, some personal, of people who would most likely have died, or ended up severely handicapped, if they had not been wearing their helmet. I also want to be a better example for others, especially young children. I work at many different schools, and so thousands and thousands of children (and many adults as well) see me cycling to work and all over town. I hope that I never have a serious accident … but at least wearing a helmet will offer protection to my head.

vja4Him 07-13-18 01:53 PM


Originally Posted by Skipjacks (Post 20443556)
I have ZERO worry about crashing and hurting myself.

If it happens, oh well. But I have full confidence in myself that I can ride for mile after mile without crashing the bike.

The reason I wear a helmet anyway is because I do not have that same confidence about drivers, other bikers, pedestrians staring at their phone, etc etc etc.

My helmet isn't in case I crash.

It's in case someone else crashed into me.

I pretty much feel the same way. I am confident with my cycling ability. It's the other people, mostly motorized vehicles, that I'm very concerned about. I see so many people driving cars looking at their cell phone, not paying attention to pedestrians or cyclists. Very scary indeed … !!!

CharlieFree 07-16-18 12:31 PM


Originally Posted by Bikewolf (Post 20443902)
Tell me about it. What do you think of this one: putting a helmet/skull cap and then leaving without the helmet itself :-)

(Some do have a night lamp.)

Ha! so I'm not the only one that's done this! :)

Reynolds 07-16-18 01:38 PM

I started cycling more than 50 years ago, so wearing a helmet wasn't natural to me. When I began to train and doing group rides, about 22 years ago, wore a helmet occasionally, but never for commuting. Now my commuting makes for 60% of my kms and more of my cycling time, so I thought I couldn't be so irrational and began wearing a helmet full time a few months ago. Now I feel strange, almost naked without a helmet. Still, I think it's a personal decision and don't look down upon those who don't wear them.
A week ago I was on a group ride, riding two abreast but nowhere near the middle of the street, when a distracted driver touched my handlebar with her mirror. I fell on my elbow, side and knee, luckily no serious consequences although I'm still in some pain. I hoped I could tell one of those dramatic "my helmet saved my life" stories, but it never touched the pavement! Frustrating.

DiabloScott 07-16-18 04:05 PM


Originally Posted by Reynolds (Post 20451173)
. I hoped I could tell one of those dramatic "my helmet saved my life" stories, but it never touched the pavement! Frustrating.

I have a cracked helmet in my show-and-tell drawer... it does serve to get the stories going.

Stadjer 07-18-18 04:13 AM

I saw a guy with a helmet yesterday. It has happened before but he was on a normal poorly maintained single speed oma and not dressed for the ride. It was an old guy with a grey beard in shorts and his helmet was shiny burgundy. Probably a foreign academic.

bikingbill 07-20-18 04:51 PM


Originally Posted by RubeRad (Post 20439897)

... kept me extra vigilant about the risky parts of my commutes...

Risk Compensation is a Real Thing.

Gresp15C 07-20-18 09:07 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 20451520)
I have a cracked helmet in my show-and-tell drawer... it does serve to get the stories going.

Indeed, we keep a cracked ski racing helmet for the same reason.

Matthew2121 07-22-18 06:46 PM

Sorry to interject, newbie here. I'm actually trying to get my first helmet. In the process of getting my first brand new bike. 2019 FX3. Local shop offered me the Bontrager Quantum MIPS helmet for half off. Any thoughts? Can't find much info, and I dont know if I need or want to get one at that price..retail 110.. my price after credit would be round 60. Just can't figure if I should look elsewhere for helmet and use credit for other items in store. Thanks for any and all help. Again my apologies for being somewhat off topic.

-matthew

Gresp15C 07-22-18 06:53 PM


Originally Posted by Matthew2121 (Post 20463231)
Sorry to interject, newbie here. I'm actually trying to get my first helmet. In the process of getting my first brand new bike. 2019 FX3. Local shop offered me the Bontrager Quantum MIPS helmet for half off. Any thoughts? Can't find much info, and I dont know if I need or want to get one at that price..retail 110.. my price after credit would be round 60. Just can't figure if I should look elsewhere for helmet and use credit for other items in store. Thanks for any and all help. Again my apologies for being somewhat off topic.

-matthew

The FX3 looks nice. Congrats! Since I was curious, I looked it up. The helmet is on sale at the Trek website for 70 bucks, so maybe the half-off deal isn't such a deal. On the other hand, it will let you get out and ride, right away, without spending another weekend shopping for helmets. Life is short.

If you happen to be thinking about accessories, other items to consider are a rear rack, the means to fix a flat while you're on the road, and a decent floor pump for home use. Of all those things, the pump is your most important maintenance item.

Matthew2121 07-22-18 07:02 PM


Originally Posted by Gresp15C (Post 20463252)
The FX3 looks nice. Congrats! Since I was curious, I looked it up. The helmet is on sale at the Trek website for 70 bucks, so maybe the half-off deal isn't such a deal. On the other hand, it will let you get out and ride, right away, without spending another weekend shopping for helmets. Life is short.

If you happen to be thinking about accessories, other items to consider are a rear rack, the means to fix a flat while you're on the road, and a decent floor pump for home use. Of all those things, the pump is your most important maintenance item.

thanks for the quick reply! I just looked on trek and it's showing $99..is there another site you are referring to by chance? If it is lower then I agree that it's not worth the deal.. if so I need to figure what type of helmet and brand to get etc..been looking all over the forums for some answers. Bit harder than I though lol As for accessories, definitely want what you mention as well as a bottle cage and bottle was thinking of getting the Bontrager bottle cage, seems nice. Thanks for the help!!

EDIT-- just did a direct search for it online instead of on trek site and I found one through the trek site that isn't listed through normal search parameters but it's 70. Only thing is it's only in blue, green and another oddball color. Not sure if that's why they are on sale


GP 07-22-18 07:17 PM

I found a Rudy Project helmet on my lawn yesterday. Not sure how someone can ride off without their helmet.

Gresp15C 07-22-18 07:43 PM


Originally Posted by Matthew2121 (Post 20463278)


thanks for the quick reply! I just looked on trek and it's showing $99..is there another site you are referring to by chance? If it is lower then I agree that it's not worth the deal.. if so I need to figure what type of helmet and brand to get etc..been looking all over the forums for some answers. Bit harder than I though lol As for accessories, definitely want what you mention as well as a bottle cage and bottle was thinking of getting the Bontrager bottle cage, seems nice. Thanks for the help!!

EDIT-- just did a direct search for it online instead of on trek site and I found one through the trek site that isn't listed through normal search parameters but it's 70. Only thing is it's only in blue, green and another oddball color. Not sure if that's why they are on sale

This is what I found, so maybe it's like what you say. The blue does look kinda cool, in a way. ;)

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/e...elmet/p/14176/

52telecaster 07-23-18 07:40 AM


Originally Posted by Matthew2121 (Post 20463231)
Sorry to interject, newbie here. I'm actually trying to get my first helmet. In the process of getting my first brand new bike. 2019 FX3. Local shop offered me the Bontrager Quantum MIPS helmet for half off. Any thoughts? Can't find much info, and I dont know if I need or want to get one at that price..retail 110.. my price after credit would be round 60. Just can't figure if I should look elsewhere for helmet and use credit for other items in store. Thanks for any and all help. Again my apologies for being somewhat off topic.

-matthew

i imagine that helmet is as good as any other and 60.00 isnt bad for a decent helmet. i agree with the last poster. get it and ride baby!

DiabloScott 07-23-18 08:08 AM


Originally Posted by Matthew2121 (Post 20463231)
Sorry to interject, newbie here. I'm actually trying to get my first helmet. In the process of getting my first brand new bike. 2019 FX3. Local shop offered me the Bontrager Quantum MIPS helmet for half off. Any thoughts? Can't find much info, and I dont know if I need or want to get one at that price..retail 110.. my price after credit would be round 60. Just can't figure if I should look elsewhere for helmet and use credit for other items in store. Thanks for any and all help. Again my apologies for being somewhat off topic.

-matthew

If you knew exactly which helmet you wanted, the right size, and how to adjust it - yeah, you can get some good deals on the Web. But you don't know any of those things and you would benefit from the LBS walking you through that learning process, and that's worth a few extra bucks.

wphamilton 07-23-18 09:23 AM


Originally Posted by mtb_addict (Post 20464197)
Helmet people have a false sense of security and take more risk when riding.

THe benefot of the helmet is offset by the phsycological risk taking.

I don't believe that's actually true, and I'm not a "helmet person" given that I've only worn it a couple of times in the last two weeks.

I realize that there was one study that demonstrated risk compensation, but it was deeply flawed in a basic assumption IMO. They only observed the first few hundred feet of the ride, assuming that a rider would do the same things after many miles.

I am not aware of feeling any greater security with or without a helmet, after the "this is different" feeling wears off. The first minute or so, I'm sure you would observe some difference in how I ride. After that, I doubt it. Analogously, I'd be surprised if people who don't want to ride without one would be riding any differently after 10 or 15 minutes. They'd be riding "normally" for them.

BTW @Matthew2121 my personal take is if you're going to splurge on a nice helmet there's nothing wrong with that, and I'd look for something with more style than the ubiquitous mushroom tops. Some of the Giro helmets look pretty sharp.

jack002 07-23-18 12:31 PM


Originally Posted by mtb_addict (Post 20464197)
Helmet people have a false sense of security and take more risk when riding.

THe benefot of the helmet is offset by the phsycological risk taking.

False! I wear one all the time and don't take any risk at all I wouldn't take without a helmet. A couple years ago I took a fall that would probably have cracked my skull if I had no helmet on. It cracked the helmet. A skim of mud on the trail from rain the night before. It didn't seem slick to me, it was. I have no pity for people who get hurt with no helmet on. Its just foolish.


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