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-   -   No Helmet -- Nice! (https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/1149320-no-helmet-nice.html)

52telecaster 10-30-18 05:53 PM

William Muny said, "We all got it comin'"

cfultz 10-31-18 07:14 AM

The increased risk of serious injury if hit without a helmet does make one pause, but there has been research showing that car drivers are more cautious when they see a bicycler without a helmet.

jfan 11-01-18 07:31 PM

I'd be dead if it weren't for a helmet. I have no recollection of what happened on that day. Very little damage to the bike, and no one witnessed the incident (that's willing to talk about it, anyway). I lost about 16hrs of my life....from about 3hrs before I left on the ride until I was in the neuro unit of the hospital. There was a serious dent/crack on the L temple area of the helmet and I received 6 stitches there. I was awake, I talked to people, the squad came, they performed diagnostic tests and stitched my head up, and I can't remember any of it. I'm fairly cautious and I don't take stupid chances..... whatever happened to me could probably happen to anyone. Feeling the cool air running over your head isn't worth risking death.

ds3000 11-04-18 07:16 PM


Originally Posted by jfan (Post 20644308)
I'd be dead if it weren't for a helmet. I have no recollection of what happened on that day. Very little damage to the bike, and no one witnessed the incident (that's willing to talk about it, anyway). I lost about 16hrs of my life....from about 3hrs before I left on the ride until I was in the neuro unit of the hospital. There was a serious dent/crack on the L temple area of the helmet and I received 6 stitches there. I was awake, I talked to people, the squad came, they performed diagnostic tests and stitched my head up, and I can't remember any of it. I'm fairly cautious and I don't take stupid chances..... whatever happened to me could probably happen to anyone. Feeling the cool air running over your head isn't worth risking death.

I concurr

52telecaster 11-06-18 03:03 PM

https://cyclingtips.com/2018/11/commentary-why-i-stopped-wearing-a-bike-helmet/

RubeRad 11-06-18 04:53 PM

Thanks for the link, that article is fantastic!

52telecaster 11-06-18 05:12 PM


Originally Posted by RubeRad (Post 20651475)
Thanks for the link, that article is fantastic!

yw, I thought so too. I found it because snob linked to it.

RubeRad 11-06-18 05:18 PM

He needs to update his profile pic​​​​​​​

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1bdad10091.png

52telecaster 11-06-18 11:27 PM


Originally Posted by 52telecaster (Post 20651493)
yw, i thought so too. I found it because snob linked to it.

+1

Bike Gremlin 11-06-18 11:38 PM

Love the disclaimer at the start. :lol:

Stadjer 11-07-18 03:12 AM


Originally Posted by Slaninar (Post 20651924)
Love the disclaimer at the start. :lol:

Makes sense, Mein Kampf is published with simular editorial warning and academic annotations too. You can't just confront the unsuspecting reader with such highly controversial ideas.

Phamilton 11-07-18 03:34 PM

A little over a year and 4,000 miles into commuting, I'm still not wearing a helmet. My hope is that if I die while riding my bike, I can provide some good narrative fodder for other internet cyclists, whether pro-helmet or otherwise, i.e. "helmet wouldn't have saved him" or "if only he had been wearing a helmet". It's my way of contributing to the internet cycling community. Like an organ donor, only instead of my liver you can have "there was this one guy ...".
Other kids wanted to be firemen and marine biologists but I said "I want to be a statistic when I grow up".

Phamilton 11-07-18 03:39 PM


Originally Posted by Stadjer (Post 20652000)
Makes sense, Mein Kampf is published with simular editorial warning and academic annotations too. You can't just confront the unsuspecting reading with such highly controversial ideas.

This comment is the best thing I've read in at least a week.

Chinghis 11-07-18 06:09 PM


Originally Posted by cfultz (Post 20641572)
the increased risk of serious injury if hit without a helmet does make one pause, but there has been research showing that car drivers are more cautious when if they see a bicycler without a helmet.

There, FTFY.

52telecaster 11-07-18 10:08 PM


Originally Posted by Phamilton (Post 20652959)
A little over a year and 4,000 miles into commuting, I'm still not wearing a helmet. My hope is that if I die while riding my bike, I can provide some good narrative fodder for other internet cyclists, whether pro-helmet or otherwise, i.e. "helmet wouldn't have saved him" or "if only he had been wearing a helmet". It's my way of contributing to the internet cycling community. Like an organ donor, only instead of my liver you can have "there was this one guy ...".
Other kids wanted to be firemen and marine biologists but I said "I want to be a statistic when I grow up".

you and I are on the same path. I also dont wear a helmet in the car or while walking.

jon c. 11-07-18 10:22 PM

Commentary: Why I stopped wearing a bike helmet

....

Before I go any further, let me state emphatically that I am not out to dissuade anyone from wearing a bike helmet.


Except the author really goes on to attempt to do just that.

noglider 11-08-18 09:31 AM

I left my helmet at work on Friday, consciously. I've decided I don't want to plan any helmetless rides any more. I usually wear a helmet, but if I'm without one, I'll still ride. But if a helmet is within reach, from now on, I will take it. If anything, I should be the one to advocate for helmets, since mine so clearly saved my life many years ago, and that was before anyone else was wearing a helmet.

Some of the anti-helmet arguments have merit, and I oppose laws that require helmets, but a helmet is still a good idea for me.

mchb 11-08-18 01:50 PM

I kinda promised my nephew I wouldn't bike without a helmet...

I think in BC you can be fined for not wearing one while on the road though I've never seen it enforced.

52telecaster 11-09-18 01:34 PM

I certainly will never criticize anyone for wearing a helmet. Hope all of you live a good long time .

RubeRad 11-09-18 01:45 PM

Neither will I. I get enough joy out of mocking posers for wearing spandex

Steely Dan 11-09-18 02:16 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20653847)
Some of the anti-helmet arguments have merit, and I oppose laws that require helmets, but a helmet is still a good idea for me.

me too.

personal experience probably colors so much of this never ending debate.

i'm personally pretty ambivalent about other people wearing helmets or not.

but having now been struck by two motor vehicles and having my head slam against the pavement and destroy the helmet i was wearing in both instances, i've decided that helmets are a good idea for me.

getting hit by cars and being knocked off my bike is a very real risk for me (two motor vehicle strikes in 11 years of daily bike commuting), so a helmet seems like a no-brainer to me based on my experiences.

those who've never had their head slammed into the pavement after a collision are likely much more prone to say "what's the big deal with helmets? they won't help you much if an asteroid lands on you."

RubeRad 11-09-18 03:05 PM

this is one of those impossible-to-prove-a-negative situations. It's very easy to point to instances where a helmet saved a life in an accident (and not just isolated anecdotes, definitely enough to make meaningful statistical statements).

And it's easy enough to look at more extreme cyclist deaths (helmeted or no) and to say "helmet couldn't do anything about that".

But it's near impossible to look at helmeted cyclist deaths and point to which ones might have been avoided if the cyclist was not wearing a helmet and thus had more vigilant, cautious riding behavior.

And yet the statistics (increasing helmet use is correlated with increased death rates, not decreased death rates) imply that there are a lot of those cases -- more than there are lives saved by helmets.

So do you want to wear a helmet as protection for your inability to ride completely vigilant and cautious all the time?

Or do you want to skip a helmet to help force yourself to ride as vigilant and cautious as possible all the time?

Of course everybody wants to answer "I will wear a helmet 100% of the time AND be 100% vigilant and 100% cautious 100% of the time". But to believe that's actually 100% possible is at least 57.3% foolish.

(And of course, there must also be an effect of, going with out a helmet increases vigilance and caution at first, but then you get used to it and grow complacent. It's only human)

noglider 11-09-18 03:25 PM

[MENTION=252435]RubeRad[/MENTION], I missed the statistics that show that increased helmet use is correlated with increased death rates. Where are they?

52telecaster 11-09-18 03:32 PM


Originally Posted by 52telecaster (Post 20651325)
https://cyclingtips.com/2018/11/commentary-why-i-stopped-wearing-a-bike-helmet/

here is the article that talked about it noglider.

RubeRad 11-09-18 03:49 PM

Yes that's what I was referring to. The whole article is well-written, but these paragraphs hit the biggest points:


why do the countries with the highest rates of helmet use also have the highest fatality rates among cyclists? Riders in the United States wear helmets more than anywhere else and yet get killed more frequently than in any other Western nation. In fact, in countries like Denmark and Netherland, where the fewest riders strap on helmets, fatal crashes are incredibly infrequent.

If that inverse relationship seems surprising, let me break it down for you: Having quality infrastructure and a culture that respects safety will impact exponentially more lives than insisting that riders wear helmets. Trying to solve the problem of vulnerable cyclists with helmets is like trying to reduce the number of fatalities in school shootings by making students wear bulletproof vests. It’s not actually solving the problem.

If helmets are lifesavers, how come Dutch riders who wear one get hospitalized more than cyclists who don’t? According to data from the Dutch government, cyclists there who wear a lid are roughly 20 times more likely to get hospitalized than riders who don’t. This result obviously isn’t suggesting that there’s something wrong with bike helmets available to Dutch consumers; instead it reflects that mountain biking and fast road riding and any kind of racing carries radically different risks than the utility riding that most Dutch people enjoy. In many user cases, helmets just aren’t a silver bullet.
The first bolded statement could pretty believably be explained by infrastructre/drivers in the US vs other countries. But the 2nd one finds the same prevalence among Dutch riders only.

Steely Dan 11-09-18 04:33 PM


Originally Posted by RubeRad (Post 20656013)
But the 2nd one finds the same prevalence among Dutch riders only.

the paragraph goes on to explain that the difference is likely because the cyclists who actually bother to wear helmets in the netherlands are engaged in cycling activities (racing, mountain biking) that have an order of magnitude more danger than piddling along at 8 mph in a protected bike lane on a 60 pound omafiets.

while i certainly don't "race" on my daily bike commutes, with 8 miles to go each way, i don't exactly take it easy either, typically rolling around 17-18 mph (well for me anyway, i'm sure 18 mph is considered taking it pretty damn easy for a serious racer).

i would suspect that the faster one rides, the greater the potential benefits of a helmet are (ie. higher speed = higher likelihood of a crash).

but i have absolutely no data to back that up.

RubeRad 11-09-18 05:03 PM

I agree, and that seems to make sense, one takeaway of which would be that Dutch cycling culture has a much better idea of when helmets are necessary.

while I certainly don't "race" on my daily bike commutes, with 5.5 miles to go each way, I DO exactly take it easy, typically rolling around 10mph.

But I stlll wear a helmet on every commute (unless I forget which is rare, but feels nice)

52telecaster 11-09-18 06:24 PM


Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 20656084)
the paragraph goes on to explain that the difference is likely because the cyclists who actually bother to wear helmets in the netherlands are engaged in cycling activities (racing, mountain biking) that have an order of magnitude more danger than piddling along at 8 mph in a protected bike lane on a 60 pound omafiets.

while i certainly don't "race" on my daily bike commutes, with 8 miles to go each way, i don't exactly take it easy either, typically rolling around 17-18 mph (well for me anyway, i'm sure 18 mph is considered taking it pretty damn easy for a serious racer).

i would suspect that the faster one rides, the greater the potential benefits of a helmet are (ie. higher speed = higher likelihood of a crash).

but i have absolutely no data to back that up.

that sounds very reasonable. Typically I am 12 mph or so.

Bike Gremlin 11-10-18 03:57 AM


Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 20656084)

i would suspect that the faster one rides, the greater the potential benefits of a helmet are (ie. higher speed = higher likelihood of a crash).

but i have absolutely no data to back that up.

I'd say this also depends. A bicycle is more stable at a higher speed. When riding in traffic (and not using a separate bike lane), I tend to not ride slowly - as it creates all sorts of problematic situations, compared to riding fast (as fast as a bike goes, 30 km/h for in city, flat land riding).

I consider road bike group rides as a high(er) risk activity, since any rider in front of me crashing increases the probability of those behing ending in a crash-pile. Solo riding I always tuck and role, but when a rider behind me crashes into me as well, it will prevent most "in-flight" manoeuvres.


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20653847)
Some of the anti-helmet arguments have merit, and I oppose laws that require helmets, but a helmet is still a good idea for me.

This is the whole point in my opinion. Saying helmet is a must is very similar to saying it's needless. Additional problem is it's hard to objectively judge the risk, even harder to say how much is acceptable. You could say that using one is being on the safe side - and it's true. Still, exactly the same can be said about a buletproof vest - but you don't hear people saying it's silly to not wear one - the silly thing is riding (living) in an area that makes wearing one warranted... does similar go for helmets as well? :)

Phamilton 11-12-18 12:26 PM

I don't know why more people don't race, regardless of vehicle. Speeding while commuting is pointless in a car or on a bike, there are no appreciable time savings to be had when anybody else is on the road and/or there are any stops. If you want to drive fast or ride your bike fast, go race somewhere. And wear a helmet. Drive/ride slow everywhere else. Speed kills. I don't believe it's an end-all solution, but man, imagine if everybody just gave themselves 10 or 15 extra contingency minutes for each trip, or how about 15% of travel time in minutes, regardless of vehicle. Even 3 minutes. "I don't have to rush around this cyclist, I left for work 5 minutes early. I can wait 10 seconds". "I don't have to ride my bike 20mph to get to work on time, I gave myself 10 extra minutes so now I can afford to ride 15mph, take a break halfway, and have time for a cup of coffee when I get there. If I flat a tire, I have time to change it and still get to work on time". I don't hear people talk about the "rat race" anymore, but that doesn't mean it's not a real thing.


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