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-   -   Considering winter commuting - need advise (https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/1155831-considering-winter-commuting-need-advise.html)

Gresp15C 09-22-18 07:07 PM

I've been riding year-round since I got studded tires.

First thing to do is develop the habit of riding as often as possible, without worrying so much about the weather. That could involve things like finding a place at work to hang wet gear, or to park a wet bike. You can start doing that kind of preparation now. Second, availability of studded tires may be seasonal. Shops (both online and off) don't stock an infinite amount of things.

Protecting against salt is somewhat controversial. I expect my winter bike to get dirty, so I don't mind putting a film of grease on steel parts, and expecting to clean it back off in the spring. My steel spokes are rusting, and their replacements will be stainless when it reaches that point.

acidfast7 09-24-18 03:25 PM

When there was a lot of fresh snow I wouldn't commute as it could get quite dangerous in an urban setting (tram rails / trains sliding / etc...)

Ice wasn't much of a problem with studs in the tyres.

Most of the snow was quickly cleared away in Frankfurt / Stockholm / Copenhagen. Doesn't snow in England.

Sadly, when I lived in the northeast US, I didn't commute by bicycle to work (except before I had a driver's license at 16.) I then moved to the south where it would shut down with 1/8" of snow (much like the UK).

I found that an MTB with flat bars and hydraulic discs worked quite well in European winter. I lower the seat a little and never use clip-in/clipless pedals or toeclips. I wouldn't consider it in the winter in a semi/urban area.

oOImpulseOo 11-07-18 11:00 PM

I've been commuting since 2005. Aside from a couple of years I did it year round. It's not as hard as it seems. Once you learn what to wear and can be comfortable regardless of temperature you are good to go. You don't have to go out and get a bunch special **** either. If you can afford a winter bike, great. I say put that money into some cheap rims for the bike you have and a park tool chain cleaner. Screw the car. Yeah it would be easier but trust me when spring comes and you've made it through winter you will, deservingly, feel like a badass.

Just dress right and keep that drive-train spotless

Jim from Boston 11-08-18 06:59 AM


Originally Posted by Archwhorides (Post 20573893)
Maybe not. I think of winter riding as game in which "winning" is figuring out how to ride more days comfortably and safely. In my experience, if you start winter riding in clear/dry conditions, then gradually ratchet up to conditions with more precip, you get accustomed to the seasonal challenge and learn which gear is appropriate.

For some the bike answer is a beater, for others it can be something quite different.

After years of all-winter riding, for me the critical elements are studded tires on the bike and wicking insulation layers and a breathable shell on the body. The key is to get out there and start dialing your own solutions.

Nicely said. My slogan is "Gear and gumption." My take on winning, in any bad weather, is taking the correct bike...my pristine carbon fiber bike on dry (non-salted) roads, and the beater otherwise. I lose when I take the beater and the roads are dry in both directions, or when I take the carbon fiber( on a messy road.

For Winter however, from about mid-December to late February at the earliest, I entirely use the beater, always with studded tires on.

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston (Post 20163096)
I ride studded tires all winter from December to March, nearly entirely on bare, wet, and/or salted pavement.

My first pair lasted several seasons, and may be still useable…

I really like the Schwalbe tires because I don't seem to feel the increased rolling resistance many claim for more aggressively treaded studded tires.

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston (Post 20647276)
I also use Kevlar tire liners year round, even on my fair weather carbon fiber road bike, to hopefully forestall flats.



Jim from Boston 11-08-18 07:20 AM


Originally Posted by medic75 (Post 2057380)
I caught the commuting bug earlier this year and I am enjoying it every day, regardless of weather. I have actually begun to enjoy light rain. Now, as winter is closing in, I am becoming a bit depressed. I hate winter. I hate snow. I do not do outdoor winter activities of any kind. Now, I am considering if I may want to ride a bike in the snow?

My commute is 2 miles via streets - no bike paths available. Sidewalks are typically not cleared entirely and I would be likely to encounter a few snowbanks blocking them along the way.

All of this in a city that came in 2nd for the weather channel's toughest weather city in 2011. I am thinking winter commuting just may be crazy, but I am going to miss cycling enough to consider it. I do have access to an exercise bike at work, but that just seems wrong - pedaling and going nowhere.

Obviously I would need a beater bike that is set up for winter use, but is that something that can deal with tough winters? Should I just admit that I will need to start driving again?

Originally Posted by BobbyG (Post 20574601)
+1
I have been a year-round commuter for decades, but only a snow rider since buying studded snow tires three winters ago….

+You will feel a real sense of accomplishment and your mental health will be better.


I just posted a brief note above about my winter cycle commute, of 14 miles one way, with convenient Commuter Rail service available allowing me to bring a fully-assembled bike.

Not to disdain any Winter Commute, but my motivation is for fitness, and the only sufficient exertion I can and will partake is my cycle commute, and for me 10 miles is a lower limit. Anything less does not inspire the gumption it takes to dress and tolerate the ride. I would probably not be motivated to add winter miles either, and 14 miles is enough.

So my best wishes for you to persevere. :thumb:

robert schlatte 11-08-18 09:07 AM


Originally Posted by KraneXL (Post 20579679)
One word: layers.

/thread.

One word: wool. Go to 2nd hand store a get an old wool sweater and you'll stay toasty in the coldest weather.

jollynut 11-11-18 05:47 AM

I find snow to be OK to ride on if it snows regularly - that usually means that it is cold and the roads will be plowed. Shoulder seasons are the worst.

medic75 11-18-18 10:27 AM

I am almost ready, but the weather has a bit of a jump on me. After looking at tires online and finding them to be back ordered at many retailers, I decided to do the right thing and give my LBS the chance to fill my needs. It just so happened that he had a set of studded tires in 700x35c that were returned by another customer due to a wobble. He couldn't find anything wrong with them, so he offered them to me for $30 each. I was so excited. I finally had a chance to mount them this morning just to find a bulge in one of the tires. I checked the bead and it looked good, but deflated them and tried again. There is no doubt that this is a defect in the tire. The LBS is on winter hours and not open again until Wednesday :(

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8b518cd3d6.jpg

JonathanGennick 11-18-18 11:11 AM

Wow! That is a stunning wobble. How does it ride? You gotta try 'em at least, just to see what the ride is like.

I'm struggling to fathom what sort of defect could could cause the tire to be that far off. You've checked the molding line on the tire, and it's even to the rim all the way around?


Originally Posted by medic75 (Post 20668207)
I am almost ready, but the weather has a bit of a jump on me. After looking at tires online and finding them to be back ordered at many retailers, I decided to do the right thing and give my LBS the chance to fill my needs. It just so happened that he had a set of studded tires in 700x35c that were returned by another customer due to a wobble. He couldn't find anything wrong with them, so he offered them to me for $30 each. I was so excited. I finally had a chance to mount them this morning just to find a bulge in one of the tires. I checked the bead and it looked good, but deflated them and tried again. There is no doubt that this is a defect in the tire. The LBS is on winter hours and not open again until Wednesday :(

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8b518cd3d6.jpg


Marcus_Ti 11-18-18 11:18 AM


Originally Posted by JonathanGennick (Post 20668267)
Wow! That is a stunning wobble. How does it ride? You gotta try 'em at least, just to see what the ride is like.

I'm struggling to fathom what sort of defect could could cause the tire to be that far off. You've checked the molding line on the tire, and it's even to the rim all the way around?

It can and still does happen. I had a Schwalbe slick come that had a similarly bad case of molded-wobbly 2 years back.

medic75 11-18-18 11:33 AM


Originally Posted by JonathanGennick (Post 20668267)
Wow! That is a stunning wobble. How does it ride? You gotta try 'em at least, just to see what the ride is like.

I'm struggling to fathom what sort of defect could could cause the tire to be that far off. You've checked the molding line on the tire, and it's even to the rim all the way around?

I didn’t even attempt to ride it. The bead is even all the way around on both sides. It almost feels like there may be some delamination of the rubber. I snapped the photo and remounted the original tire. Needless to say, I understand why the previous customer complained of a wobble.

KraneXL 11-18-18 12:41 PM

Lol, that looks like a bizarro tires. :) Too bad they didn't work out. That used to happen to me a lot with AV equipment. It would be on the floor at a super bargain but it wasn't until you got it home and connected it that you noticed the defects.

Luckily, I'd always buy from big box stores so returns (within 30 days) were never an issue. Don't remember ever making a return to my LBS.

medic75 11-18-18 04:23 PM

Being an inquisitive person, I decided to attempt to figure out what the problem is with this tire. While I originally said it felt like it had delaminated, I was wrong. There was a noticable weakness in the sidewalls, one side was a few inches below the other side. Upon further investigation, it became clear that there is a section of nylon material missing from the original tire manufacture. Taking a look at the photo, you can see the lack of diagonal lines (threads) on the inner tire for about 2 inches.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c91aca9fd6.jpg

JonathanGennick 11-18-18 04:27 PM

Wow! Good eye. And that spot corresponds w/the deformity? Really good eye picking that up.

medic75 11-19-18 07:53 AM


Originally Posted by JonathanGennick (Post 20668626)
Wow! Good eye. And that spot corresponds w/the deformity? Really good eye picking that up.

Yes, that is the deformity area. I am not sure if your are familiar with tire construction, but the orientation of the nylon threads is diagonal and folded, creating three layers of perpendicular threads. Due to this construction, if there is a gap in the threads, it will be largest at the bead, narrowing as it nears the center of the tread. These areas are likely only rubber with no structure, creating a very weak spot (bulge in sidewall) with a similarly weak spot on the opposing sidewall either before or after at about a 45 degree angle if the tire were to be flattened out.

Once again, I am a very inquisitive person who has a need to understand how things work. This need to understand is exacerbated when there is a failure.

acidfast7 11-19-18 08:07 AM

Hey [MENTION=484437]medic75[/MENTION], I would check these guys as they carry and ship everything to the US.

https://www.bike24.de/1.php?mid=0;pg...,104;content=7

JonathanGennick 11-19-18 08:30 AM


Originally Posted by medic75 (Post 20669278)
Yes, that is the deformity area. I am not sure if your are familiar with tire construction, ....

I know more now than I did ten minutes ago :-). Thanks for the explanation. Interesting, and I hadn't known to that level of detail.

revcp 11-19-18 09:55 AM


Originally Posted by medic75 (Post 20573803)
I caught the commuting bug earlier this year and I am enjoying it every day, regardless of weather. I have actually begun to enjoy light rain. Now, as winter is closing in, I am becoming a bit depressed. I hate winter. I hate snow. I do not do outdoor winter activities of any kind. Now, I am considering if I may want to ride a bike in the snow? My commute is 2 miles via streets - no bike paths available. Sidewalks are typically not cleared entirely and I would be likely to encounter a few snowbanks blocking them along the way. All of this in a city that came in 2nd for the weather channel's toughest weather city in 2011. I am thinking winter commuting just may be crazy, but I am going to miss cycling enough to consider it. I do have access to an exercise bike at work, but that just seems wrong - pedaling and going nowhere.

Obviously I would need a beater bike that is set up for winter use, but is that something that can deal with tough winters? Should I just admit that I will need to start driving again?

I love winter riding. I'm also one of the odd ones who appreciates mid 30s and raining. We live in such climate controlled cocoons that there's something wonderful about being able to appreciate everything that the weather throws at you. As other note, don't ride when you feel it's not safe to do so. Over time you will find that your definition of "safe" will change as you acclimate yourself to weather and road conditions, but a good rule of thumb is to not do what you think you can't do.

Any mid 80s into early 90s MTB will serve you well (with studded tires for icy days--and you can always pick up a cheap wheelset to make things easier, i.e. it's easier to change out wheels when you have to than it is to change out tires).

At only 2 miles your clothing choices are pretty simple, as you won't have to be concerned about overheating. I start out cold, as experience tells me that after a few miles I'm comfortable. The easiest mistake to make with clothing is to overdress. You'll be surprised how little you have to wear. After refining my clothing for several years, I find that softshell pants are very versatile (long underwear at about 5 degrees), waterproof socks (Showers Pass) function well with my Five Ten Freerider platform shoes (with insulated shoes or boots around 15 degrees). Up top is where I switch things out a lot. I've found what I believe to be the perfect jacket, Black Diamond First Light Hoody. It has "active insulation," which means it keeps me warm and is adequately windproof, but it pumps the heat out well. Under that I wear short or long sleeve merino, or both when it's below 0. You'll want to get some versatile hand wear. Down to the low 20s I wear mid weight fleece gloves or mitts with a very light windproof shell. Down to 5 or so I wear a pair of Hestra Army trigger finger gloves. Below that I put pogies on and switch back to light or mid weight fleece. Head gear the same. Versatile pieces (buff in combination with light merino skull cap).

You'll love winter riding. When I bought a fatbike back in 2013 I sold my trainer. Haven't looked back.

crazyravr 11-19-18 12:05 PM

I am just going to say, skip all the glove advice if your hands get cold easy. I have tried many many gloves and nothing would really work when the temps dropped below 0C.
I finally bought bar mitts. My life changed.
Last night went for a test ride at -3C. All I had was think liner gloves on my hands for just over an hour out and only then I started to get cold. I then put on my PI lobster gloves and one toasty for another hour out with no chill what so ever.
Highly HIGHLY recommend.

JonathanGennick 11-19-18 01:02 PM


Originally Posted by crazyravr (Post 20669642)
I am just going to say, skip all the glove advice if your hands get cold easy. I have tried many many gloves and nothing would really work when the temps dropped below 0C.
I finally bought bar mitts. My life changed.

A hearty +1 on this. Pogies are the way to go. I get mine from moosemitts.com, but there are other brands out there.

acidfast7 11-19-18 01:18 PM

Sorry guys. I stand by XC ski gloves.

LillSport

I go with a Legend Thermo Gold that I skied with.

http://lillsport.com/product/legend-thermo-gold-0108-3/

Was 2C / 35F and windy on the way in. Is current 5C/40F and raining/sleeting almost and still OK.

Have the heat on because I'm a wimp (as I get older).

Sorry dudes, bar mitts are huge and don't allow finger movements ... I can't open a bike locker or buy a train ticket or even operate a cycle lane crossing signal with a bar mitt on.

JonathanGennick 11-19-18 04:05 PM


Originally Posted by acidfast7 (Post 20669770)
Was 2C / 35F and windy on the way in. Is current 5C/40F and raining/sleeting almost and still OK.

The other day I was out in -7 C, and there's colder yet in store for my region. Hence why the mitts. I prefer the mitts along with thin gloves (like yours) to wearing thick gloves that are unwieldy. Like you, I prefer to wear cross country ski gloves because they are thin.

[/quote]Sorry dudes, bar mitts are huge and don't allow finger movements ... I can't open a bike locker or buy a train ticket or even operate a cycle lane crossing signal with a bar mitt on.[/QUOTE]

The mitts allow for plenty of movement, and it's easy to pull one's hand out to do whatever is needed. The newer ones that I just bought hold their shape better too, making it easier to pull a hand out and put it back in again.

revcp 11-19-18 07:52 PM


Originally Posted by acidfast7 (Post 20669770)
Sorry guys. I stand by XC ski gloves.

LillSport

I go with a Legend Thermo Gold that I skied with.

Legend Thermo Gold ? 0108 ? LillSport

Was 2C / 35F and windy on the way in. Is current 5C/40F and raining/sleeting almost and still OK.

Have the heat on because I'm a wimp (as I get older).

Sorry dudes, bar mitts are huge and don't allow finger movements ... I can't open a bike locker or buy a train ticket or even operate a cycle lane crossing signal with a bar mitt on.

All good, but 35F is late autumn, early spring.

acidfast7 11-20-18 05:20 AM


Originally Posted by JonathanGennick (Post 20670039)
The other day I was out in -7 C, and there's colder yet in store for my region. Hence why the mitts. I prefer the mitts along with thin gloves (like yours) to wearing thick gloves that are unwieldy. Like you, I prefer to wear cross country ski gloves because they are thin.

The mitts allow for plenty of movement, and it's easy to pull one's hand out to do whatever is needed. The newer ones that I just bought hold their shape better too, making it easier to pull a hand out and put it back in again.

Yeah, we don't get below 0C that often here. However, it is very windy and rainy. I like having the ability to bend the fingers (buy a coffee or push a train button or lift the bike to my shoulders) with the gloves on. I usually ski with the gloves down to -20C, so it should be OK for lower temps. I also don't like having to haul large stuff when I do a bike/train commute, thus I try to not have bulky items that require storage in my 20L backpack.

But, I must admit that you're right that 0C isn't that cold.


Originally Posted by revcp (Post 20670346)
All good, but 35F is late autumn, early spring.

Yeah, they're good down to -20C when I ski with them on the continent, however on the southern coast of England, it doesn't go below 0C that often. So, fair enough.

JonathanGennick 11-20-18 07:25 AM


Originally Posted by acidfast7 (Post 20670683)
Yeah, we don't get below 0C that often here. However, it is very windy and rainy. I like having the ability to bend the fingers (buy a coffee or push a train button or lift the bike to my shoulders) with the gloves on. I usually ski with the gloves down to -20C, so it should be OK for lower temps.

I need better gloves! Mine are for cross-country skiing, so they don't retain much heat. And agreed on wanting some dexterity. Puffy gloves on a bike are not my favorite thing.


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