Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Commuting
Reload this Page >

"Do everything" frameset for internal hub

Commuting Bicycle commuting is easier than you think, before you know it, you'll be hooked. Learn the tips, hints, equipment, safety requirements for safely riding your bike to work.

"Do everything" frameset for internal hub

Old 02-27-19, 03:14 PM
  #1  
taybins
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
"Do everything" frameset for internal hub

Hey all - my first actual post after stalking these forums for years. So, hi!

I'd like to build a "do everything" bike for my wife, but mostly commuting (in Southern New England winters, too). After spending many hours researching, I've come to realize that the set of requirements makes for a pretty niche bike, and I don't think there are many frame options that fit the bill. So I'd like to ask all of you: any frameset recommendations that I should be looking into, but may have missed? I've covered a lot of the usual suspects that are in by budget (ideally less than $650 new for the frameset, though I'd love to find a used one). Here are those strange requirements:
  • Steel
  • Disc brake compatible
  • Prefer no extraneous canti or DT bosses
  • Horizontal-ish dropouts, since I want to install an Alfine 8spd IGH without an eccentric BB or a chain tensioner (yes, yes, many of your will recommend I spend the money on a Rohloff, I know I know)
  • Derailleur hanger, in case she decides one day that she doesn't like the IGH
  • Braze ons for both front a rear racks, it will eventually have a child carrier (with child, one presumes) mounted up front
  • Road or CC geometry, since she likes going fast and being on her drops (this is the requirement that screws everything up - rules out cargo frames, Ogre)
Pretty much anything that fits those needs will have lots of clearance for mudguards, so those aren't separate requirements. I've looked at pretty much everything from All City, Surly, Soma, and a random selection of other frames form other manufacturers, and the leading contender right now is a Surly Straggler.

Is there anything I'm missing, or have forgotten? If I break my no chain tensioner rule and include vertical dropouts, that opens up way more possibilities - maybe a Disc Trucker? Space Horse?

Thanks a ton!
taybins is offline  
Old 02-27-19, 08:59 PM
  #2  
alan s 
Senior Member
 
alan s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 6,661
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1320 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 45 Times in 29 Posts
Surly Troll. Fast is a relative term. Drops can be used, but why bother?
alan s is offline  
Old 02-27-19, 11:00 PM
  #3  
GamblerGORD53
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Elevation 666m Edmonton Canada
Posts: 1,327

Bikes: 2013 Custom SA5w / Rohloff Tourster

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 628 Post(s)
Liked 7 Times in 5 Posts
You're on the right track there, but how about a SA 8? Easier to take apart and lube and replace parts, vs almost impossible with Alfine 8 or 11, but you can take their complete guts out to dip in oil.
Have a look at the YouTube videos, the Alfine needs more than a few special tools, However, it is pointless to do so as the parts are not available anyway.
They have the same GIs, 31 to 100.
The chainring is way smaller with the SA 8, so it's easier to cover the chain. The SA 8 is all overdrive, while the Alfine has 5th as direct drive. SA cranks at SJS are OK if you like 170mm.

I used a SA 5w a few years and loved it's speed, faster than my Rohloff14. Then the shift springs went goofy. It is very easy to take apart too, just don't lose track of the tiny pawl springs. A shell tool is a good idea to have.

Last edited by GamblerGORD53; 03-01-19 at 01:01 AM.
GamblerGORD53 is offline  
Old 02-28-19, 07:24 AM
  #4  
taybins
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Cool, thanks both. I did look at the Troll, and I think that would be a good option to compete with an Ogre, but not sure my wife digs it. She really prefers drops, and I suspect it would then have too much reach. Also prefers 700c wheels for the speed.

The Sturmey Archer hub is an interesting alternative, though. I actually looked at those early on and basically found that no one used them (compared to Rohloff and Shimano), so figured there must be a reason. I guess I should reconsider!
taybins is offline  
Old 02-28-19, 10:23 AM
  #5  
tcs
Palmer
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 5,937

Bikes: 1980 Mike Melton, 1982 Stumpjumper, 1982 Santana, 1984 Alex Moulton AM, 2008 BikeFriday tikit T-11, 2010 Dawes Briercliffe, 2017 Dahon Curl i5, 2019 Surly ˝DT14

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 543 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 40 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by taybins View Post
The Sturmey Archer hub is an interesting alternative, though. I actually looked at those early on and basically found that no one used them...
Used one for the last ten years. Good hub. You WILL need a small tooth count chainring to get the gear range right.
tcs is offline  
Old 02-28-19, 10:27 AM
  #6  
tcs
Palmer
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 5,937

Bikes: 1980 Mike Melton, 1982 Stumpjumper, 1982 Santana, 1984 Alex Moulton AM, 2008 BikeFriday tikit T-11, 2010 Dawes Briercliffe, 2017 Dahon Curl i5, 2019 Surly ˝DT14

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 543 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 40 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by taybins View Post
  • Disc brake compatible
  • Horizontal-ish dropouts
Pretty much mutually exclusive.
tcs is offline  
Old 02-28-19, 10:30 AM
  #7  
tyrion
Senior Member
 
tyrion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 2,301

Bikes: Breezer Radar

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1209 Post(s)
Liked 70 Times in 47 Posts
Soma Wolverine and Surly Straggler are the closest I can think of.
tyrion is online now  
Old 02-28-19, 02:53 PM
  #8  
taybins
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hm, ya, I like the look of the Wolverine. I had dismissed it earlier because I didn't really understand the dropouts, but I do now. Seems their 3.0 version has redesigned the droppouts, which I understand caused frame problems in much earlier models (don't quote me, might just be passing along gossip).

In head-to-heads, it seems like the Soma is a winner over the Surly, too. Too bad the latest model doesn't come in orange!
taybins is offline  
Old 02-28-19, 10:53 PM
  #9  
CharlieFree
Senior Member
 
CharlieFree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 196
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by taybins View Post
Hm, ya, I like the look of the Wolverine. I had dismissed it earlier because I didn't really understand the dropouts, but I do now. Seems their 3.0 version has redesigned the droppouts, which I understand caused frame problems in much earlier models (don't quote me, might just be passing along gossip).

In head-to-heads, it seems like the Soma is a winner over the Surly, too. Too bad the latest model doesn't come in orange!
i have the Wolverine 2.0 (in orange!) never had problems with the dropouts and the frame. I am using the alfine 8 with a belt but I might switch to a 3 speed to keep it simpler and lighter.
CharlieFree is offline  
Old 02-28-19, 11:48 PM
  #10  
Nightdiver
7ft of Cet-Bak
 
Nightdiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Out and about
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Also don't rule out bikes just because they lack a horizontal or sliding dropout system. PF30, BB30, and other bottom bracket standards are able to take eccentrics to provide chain tension. Usually they will have enough adjustment to accommodate a belt system if you go that route, depending on the exact combo of belt, chainstay, etc.
Nightdiver is offline  
Old 03-01-19, 01:58 PM
  #11  
RubeRad
Keepin it Wheel
 
RubeRad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 8,611

Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Moto Fantom29 ProSL hardtail

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked 50 Times in 41 Posts
Yeah, I was going to suggest just buy a Breezer Beltway until I saw you seem to definitely want drop bars. I don't know if they sell just frames, but you could buy a whole Breezer Beltway 8 and swap out the bars and cockpit. Or an 11+ and you've also got dynamo lighting and rack and fenders.

Did Breezer raise their prices? I seem to remember the top-end Beltway 11+ to be an absolute steal, and now at $1799 it seems more like just a fair price.
RubeRad is offline  
Old 03-02-19, 09:53 AM
  #12  
Banzai
Jet Jockey
 
Banzai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 4,852

Bikes: Cannondale CAAD9, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Nashbar X-frame bike, Bike Friday Haul-a-Day, Surly Pugsley.

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 329 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
If you use Alfine, the chain tensioner works fine, and you can just use vertical dropouts. Since you want a derailer hanger, why not?
Banzai is offline  
Old 03-02-19, 01:31 PM
  #13  
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 41,928

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6833 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 215 Times in 179 Posts
Bike Friday NWT .. Dropout swings, left one has disc mount, ISO.. 20" wheel so no TCO even smallest size..

Using Shimano Alfine hubs you can even order it as disc + belt drive, so no chain, no chain dirt..

Low bar so she can even wear dresses...

Bespoke. built to order..
even offered in Pink.. and shipped from Oregon , To Asia , not the other way ..

All on your list come out of Taiwan, probably built for export, in large numbers, by Maxway Ltd TW, (a very large OEM contract manufacturer)




..

Last edited by fietsbob; 03-02-19 at 01:45 PM.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 03-03-19, 11:21 PM
  #14  
Kedosto
Ambulophobic
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: San Leandro, CA
Posts: 1,117
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 402 Post(s)
Liked 82 Times in 55 Posts
Specialized AWOL Expert frameset. No longer available so you’d have to track one down in the wild. Drop bar geo. IGH, chain, belt, Rohloff, derailleur, whatever. “Swinger” dropouts — an adjustable pivot design. Quick release only. Steel frame with dyno hub, rack(s), and fender mount accommodations. Overall it’s one of the most versatile frames I’ve ever seen. I own one, size L (not for sale).

Specialized AWOL Expert

-Kedosto

Edited to add: All are disc brake. Only 2016 and later are Rohloff compatible with OEM 2 plates. Easily fits tires up to 47 w/fenders, 50s without. 3 bottle mounts.

Last edited by Kedosto; 03-03-19 at 11:38 PM.
Kedosto is offline  
Old 03-06-19, 05:02 AM
  #15  
Viich
Hack
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 760

Bikes: 88 Bianchi Strada (currently Sturmey'd), 90's Giant Innova (now with drop bars), FMF Race BMX

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 9 Posts
I'd agree that there are few frames that do this well, and consider sturmey drum brake in place of disc for the rear. The adjustability of the horizontal drop outs really doesn't locate the disc well enough.
Viich is offline  
Old 03-08-19, 01:16 PM
  #16  
taybins
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hey all - thanks for all your help on this. I pulled the trigger on a Soma Wolverine 3.0. Looks sweet.

Interesting comment about the disc brake alingment, but the sliding dropouts on the Soma are also the same bits of metal that you attach the brake to, so it shouldn't be an issue. Hopefully.
taybins is offline  
Old 03-10-19, 11:51 AM
  #17  
Dan Burkhart 
Senior member
 
Dan Burkhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 7,285
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 537 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by tcs View Post
Pretty much mutually exclusive.
Not necessarily. They can coexist.
Dan Burkhart is offline  
Old 03-10-19, 10:31 PM
  #18  
Geekage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 97
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
Not necessarily. They can coexist.
Yeah, but it's a bit of a hack getting horizontal dropouts and disc brakes to coexist.

The Surly horizontal dropouts need to have slotted IS disc brake mounts so the disc caliper can be slid back and forth depending in the wheel position. Actually, slid and rotated.

Of you just need to tweak the chain tension, you probably don't need to readjust the disc caliper position, it's probably close enough. And on the plus side unlike with Alternator dropouts or eccentric bottom brackets, you just need deal with the wheel nuts, not the dropout or BB pinch bolts.
Geekage is offline  
Old 03-11-19, 12:30 PM
  #19  
alan s 
Senior Member
 
alan s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 6,661
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1320 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 45 Times in 29 Posts

Originally Posted by Geekage View Post
Yeah, but it's a bit of a hack getting horizontal dropouts and disc brakes to coexist.

The Surly horizontal dropouts need to have slotted IS disc brake mounts so the disc caliper can be slid back and forth depending in the wheel position. Actually, slid and rotated.

Of you just need to tweak the chain tension, you probably don't need to readjust the disc caliper position, it's probably close enough. And on the plus side unlike with Alternator dropouts or eccentric bottom brackets, you just need deal with the wheel nuts, not the dropout or BB pinch bolts.
This is the Surly Troll dropout.
alan s is offline  
Old 03-11-19, 12:38 PM
  #20  
Geekage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 97
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by alan s View Post

This is the Surly Troll dropout.

Do you have to loosen the caliper bolts just to remove the wheel? It looks like otherwise the disc would hit the caliper as you slid the wheel forward to get the chain off either the chainwheel or sprocket.

eta: It looks like the Surly trail bikes have the discs mounted on the other side of the seatstays and so the disc might not hit the caliper as it's slid forward.

Last edited by Geekage; 03-11-19 at 12:43 PM.
Geekage is offline  
Old 03-11-19, 12:56 PM
  #21  
alan s 
Senior Member
 
alan s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 6,661
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1320 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 45 Times in 29 Posts
Originally Posted by Geekage View Post
Do you have to loosen the caliper bolts just to remove the wheel? It looks like otherwise the disc would hit the caliper as you slid the wheel forward to get the chain off either the chainwheel or sprocket.

eta: It looks like the Surly trail bikes have the discs mounted on the other side of the seatstays and so the disc might not hit the caliper as it's slid forward.
No, there is enough slack on the drive side to get the chain off. Tensioned with a Surly Tuggnut.
alan s is offline  
Old 03-11-19, 06:44 PM
  #22  
Archwhorides 
Senior Member
 
Archwhorides's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Boston
Posts: 771

Bikes: Death machines all

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Bike Friday NWT .. Dropout swings, left one has disc mount, ISO.. 20" wheel so no TCO even smallest size..

Using Shimano Alfine hubs you can even order it as disc + belt drive, so no chain, no chain dirt..

Bespoke. built to order..

..
.

My my work colleague has a BF and it rocks!
Archwhorides is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Puget Pounder
Bicycle Mechanics
10
04-26-12 08:39 AM
zoeglassjd
General Cycling Discussion
2
12-08-08 12:37 PM
jman1783
Road Cycling
4
09-09-08 01:56 PM
klam
Road Cycling
1
05-16-08 11:42 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.