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-   -   Iíve crossed over to the dark side (e-bike content) (https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/1170611-i-ve-crossed-over-dark-side-e-bike-content.html)

Barchettaman 04-14-19 11:34 PM

Iíve crossed over to the dark side (e-bike content)
 
So, after 6 1/2 years of my 25km commute (often twice a day) I have bowed to the inevitable, followed my wifeís example and got a Pedelec.

Itís restricted to 16mph so I still get some exercise but, by God, itís a wonderful thing.

Itís utterly hilarious to blat around the woods and tracks near me here in Frankfurt.

Bosch middle motor, 400wA battery, 1x9 Shimano drivetrain, lock out fork, hydraulic brakes.

i got it used for Ä900, which is just over half what they retail for now, and just under half what it cost new in 2016.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dd2004627.jpeg


ThermionicScott 04-15-19 10:10 AM

Looks like fun! I'm pretty fortunate to have a short commute, but for one like yours, I'd consider going to the dark side as well. :thumb:

Barchettaman 04-15-19 11:52 AM

Yeah, I think 8 miles each way - with hills - is a reasonable justification for getting one.

My best time on my drop bar commuter bike was 29mins, and that was taking loads of risks and I was a right sweaty mess at the end.

I do it in 30 mins now consistently and - pretty much - easily. It justs flattens out the terrain so effectively.

Also, there is zero temptation to jump a red light as the thing whips you back up to speed so well after a stop.

Theyíre not for everyone, but this one works well for my circumstances.

noglider 04-16-19 10:05 AM

First of all, it looks perfect, as, if I bought an ebike, I would buy one just like that, though I would put slick tires on it. Second of all, you got an amazing price. Third of all, it's so much fun!

Darth Lefty 04-16-19 10:39 AM

Surly brought out a new version of the Big Dummy with a Bosch motor. It looks good but... the price tag is astonishing!

Barchettaman 04-17-19 04:35 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20887149)
First of all, it looks perfect, as, if I bought an ebike, I would buy one just like that, though I would put slick tires on it. Second of all, you got an amazing price. Third of all, it's so much fun!

I have a set of Big Apple-style tyres that I got a few years ago for very little money, that Iíll throw on I think.

They are a hoot to ride. Super things.

Bikewolf 04-26-19 01:09 PM

I feel like some prices are just not right when you compare bikes, so being able to find a bargain is always nice – especially when we’re talking e-bikes.

Nice you mention you still like to exercice. For most people 16 mph is more than enough assistance anyway. And leaves you more battery power.

'njoy!

aadhils 04-28-19 01:52 AM

Congrats! Iím waiting for the Brompton Electric to be released in the US so I can convert to the dark side too. My workplace is at the very top of a hill as well. Coincidentally my commute also is 8 miles one way.

skou 04-28-19 02:47 AM

Congrats on that one! Seems like you've got a lot of kilometers in front of you :-)

Archwhorides 04-28-19 07:09 AM

Following with keen interest, enjoy!

acidfast7 04-28-19 08:39 AM

I was blown away by how well-equipped RMV is for e-bikes. I left in 2013 and they've really developed the infrastructure since then. I was also blown away by how much of the Ostend has changed with the EZB being complete. We had friends buy a small house in Maintal (Ä600k!) And they commute to work by ebike (WB platz and Riedberg).

Good changes all around. Hope that it works well for you!

Roccorides 04-29-19 09:37 AM

I was surprised to learn that in Europe some ebikes are limited to 16 mph, whereas the same bike in the US is limited to 20. 16 is pretty slow, but so is 20 if you're covering lots of miles on a commute. Even at 16, it's tremendously helpful on hills, through headwinds, or offroad. For long road commutes, I like the Orbea concept . . . provide some assistance while keeping it as close to regular bike weight as possible.

I don't think you should shame yourself, even in jest, by talking about the "dark side." Why people stigmatize ebikes is beyond me. Of all the things there are to worry about in this world, ebikes shouldn't even crack the top one thousand.

chas58 04-29-19 03:06 PM

That is so cool! Gotta love Cube (and Canyon) bikes. I would be frustrated with the 25kph limit, as I pedal around 20mph. I designed and built a 350 watt bike that cruises around 25mph. Its a fun way to get to work.

One good thing about e bikes is the consistancy and ease of acceleration. On my pedal bike the other day I had a 30mph headwind. Instead of 50 minutes it took me 80 minutes to get home (and I surely wasn't cruising anywhere near 20mph that day).

RidingMatthew 05-07-19 07:39 AM


Originally Posted by chas58 (Post 20906578)
That is so cool! Gotta love Cube (and Canyon) bikes. I would be frustrated with the 25kph limit, as I pedal around 20mph. I designed and built a 350 watt bike that cruises around 25mph. Its a fun way to get to work.

One good thing about e bikes is the consistancy and ease of acceleration. On my pedal bike the other day I had a 30mph headwind. Instead of 50 minutes it took me 80 minutes to get home (and I surely wasn't cruising anywhere near 20mph that day).

those are the days when I consider an electric motor something I could live with. I really like an electric bike that looks more like a normal bike though. i have thought that an electric set up for commuting would be perfect on the days I have to get home for something quick I could use the power that day to cut down on commuting time. (11 miles one way commute)

chas58 05-07-19 08:12 AM


Originally Posted by RidingMatthew (Post 20918023)
those are the days when I consider an electric motor something I could live with. I really like an electric bike that looks more like a normal bike though. i have thought that an electric set up for commuting would be perfect on the days I have to get home for something quick I could use the power that day to cut down on commuting time. (11 miles one way commute)

I understand! for a 12 mile commute, the ebike saves about 10 minutes in my case. I build a drop bar bike several years ago that looks just like a normal road bike. Its a lot faster though (to the surprise of many cars).

robertorolfo 05-07-19 08:44 AM


Originally Posted by Roccorides (Post 20905929)
I was surprised to learn that in Europe some ebikes are limited to 16 mph, whereas the same bike in the US is limited to 20. 16 is pretty slow, but so is 20 if you're covering lots of miles on a commute. Even at 16, it's tremendously helpful on hills, through headwinds, or offroad. For long road commutes, I like the Orbea concept . . . provide some assistance while keeping it as close to regular bike weight as possible.

I don't think you should shame yourself, even in jest, by talking about the "dark side." Why people stigmatize ebikes is beyond me. Of all the things there are to worry about in this world, ebikes shouldn't even crack the top one thousand.

20 mph is slow on the road, but it isn't slow on a bike path or MUP. And if it's too slow for you on the road, just get a proper scooter.

It's not that people are trying to stigmatize e-bikes, it's more that they are trying to make it clear that you are now participating in a different activity. You are now using motorized transport, which in some respects is quite different to a regular bicycle. It doesn't make you a bad person, but to some people it puts you closer to the category of those driving cars and riding motorcycles/scooter than those riding bicycles. Deal with it.

Roccorides 05-07-19 11:58 AM


Originally Posted by robertorolfo (Post 20918144)
20 mph is slow on the road, but it isn't slow on a bike path or MUP. And if it's too slow for you on the road, just get a proper scooter.

It's not that people are trying to stigmatize e-bikes, it's more that they are trying to make it clear that you are now participating in a different activity. You are now using motorized transport, which in some respects is quite different to a regular bicycle. It doesn't make you a bad person, but to some people it puts you closer to the category of those driving cars and riding motorcycles/scooter than those riding bicycles. Deal with it.

I stand corrected, sir! No one ever uses terms like "dark side" to refer to ebikes. I don't know where I got that idea!

Of course I deal with it. I deal with far more difficult problems every hour of every day. That's sort of my point: we should focus our concerns on things of more consequence than whether a bicycle has a battery and electric motor attached to it.

robertorolfo 05-07-19 12:26 PM


Originally Posted by Roccorides (Post 20918515)
I stand corrected, sir! No one ever uses terms like "dark side" to refer to ebikes. I don't know where I got that idea!

Of course I deal with it. I deal with far more difficult problems every hour of every day. That's sort of my point: we should focus our concerns on things of more consequence than whether a bicycle has a battery and electric motor attached to it.

Yeah, solving world hunger, nuclear nonproliferation, blah, blah...

I get your point, but these are the bike forums, so it's an issue we can and should discuss here. And if some moron on an e-bike hits you at just 20mph, or a "slow" 16mph, it might become that much more serious an issue for someone.

RidingMatthew 05-07-19 01:37 PM


Originally Posted by chas58 (Post 20918096)
I understand! for a 12 mile commute, the ebike saves about 10 minutes in my case. I build a drop bar bike several years ago that looks just like a normal road bike. Its a lot faster though (to the surprise of many cars).

i like the Trek Crossrip + looks like a normal bike with a motor under the hood haha .

phughes 05-11-19 11:39 AM


Originally Posted by robertorolfo (Post 20918572)
Yeah, solving world hunger, nuclear nonproliferation, blah, blah...

I get your point, but these are the bike forums, so it's an issue we can and should discuss here. And if some moron on an e-bike hits you at just 20mph, or a "slow" 16mph, it might become that much more serious an issue for someone.

Are you saying there are not bicyclists riding at 16mph without electric assist? Really?

Archwhorides 05-12-19 04:59 AM


Originally Posted by phughes (Post 20924794)
Are you saying there are not bicyclists riding at 16mph without electric assist? Really?

E-bikes hit *much* harder at that same 16 mph 🤣

acidfast7 05-12-19 06:07 AM


Originally Posted by Archwhorides (Post 20925598)
E-bikes hit *much* harder at that same 16 mph 🤣

Most of the German pedelec bikes were substantially more heavy that a standard so the force exerted (assuming momentum conservation after the collision) on a pedestrian or other cyclist would be greater than a similar non-Pedelec variant at the same velocity.

Archwhorides 05-12-19 09:16 AM

No argument, P = MV is an equation that really works, and that is why I always carry extra dead-load in my pannier, because the increased momentum makes me a greater threat on the road, LOL. If you respect the physics, the sizable increase in velocity is what makes e-bikes a more significant threat, not the nominal increase in mass.

Let's say you weigh 175 lbs and ride a 40 lb e-bike with a 15 lb backpack at 16 mph limit. Meanwhile I weigh 260 lbs and am on a 22 lb commuter with the same 15 lb backpack at 16 mph. Is your e-bike a greater threat than my commuter?


Originally Posted by acidfast7 (Post 20925634)
Most of the German pedelec bikes were substantially more heavy that a standard so the force exerted (assuming momentum conservation after the collision) on a pedestrian or other cyclist would be greater than a similar non-Pedelec variant at the same velocity.


acidfast7 05-12-19 09:37 AM


Originally Posted by Archwhorides (Post 20925906)
No argument, P = MV is an equation that really works, and that is why I always carry extra dead-load in my pannier, because the increased momentum makes me a greater threat on the road, LOL. If you respect the physics, the sizable increase in velocity is what makes e-bikes a more significant threat, not the nominal increase in mass.

Let's say you weigh 175 lbs and ride a 40 lb e-bike with a 15 lb backpack at 16 mph limit. Meanwhile I weigh 260 lbs and am on a 22 lb commuter with the same 15 lb backpack at 16 mph. Is your e-bike a greater threat than my commuter?

I weigh 80kg on my bike (muscle/slender and 188cm only). I would buy a CUBE ebike as shown here.

A CUBE acid 29er pro pedelec weighs 21.1kg.

Making 100kg total (keep the math easy.)

A regular CUBE acid 29er pro weighs 13.5kg.

Thus the different is 8% in Force, which I would consider significant.

Having said that, my personal and bike weights might differ from others thus your mileage may vary.

acidfast7 05-12-19 09:56 AM

Two other quick bits of fallacy:

1. Most locales that are reasonable will regulate ebike speed to be consistent with bicycle speed.

2. Probably saw about 1000 people today at the beach and around. Didn't see a single person that was around 120kg in weight. Especially not among the 50 or so cyclists I saw on bikes.

So, I think your example isn't a commonplace occurrence.


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