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650b or Wide 700c?

Old 05-13-19, 04:46 PM
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I've used the wrong size tubes many times. I usually get away with it, but change them when you get a chance.

What pressure did you use? Do some experiments with pressure. You might get away with less than you think. But it requires more frequent topping up.
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Old 05-14-19, 12:41 AM
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Schwalbe carries tyres as well. Not all variants are available in (-584 or 650B).




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Old 05-14-19, 02:07 AM
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https://www.bike24.de/1.php?content=...by=2;pitems=20


That's what you're looking for as they ship to the US with a decent fee and remove the VAT for non-EU customers. You might have to pay duty but I haven't received anything in the US in a while.

Those are all of the Winter tyres in 27,5 Zoll (or 650B in the US).

However, be warned that bike24.de was bought by Wiggle (depending on what you think of them).
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Old 05-14-19, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
Schwalbe carries tyres as well. Not all variants are available in (-584 or 650B).
I have seen these too. However, I don't want to be commuting on knobby tyres. However, the OP apparently is not concerned with studded tyres.
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Old 05-14-19, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert C View Post
I have seen these too. However, I don't want to be commuting on knobby tyres. However, the OP apparently is not concerned with studded tyres.
Full katalog.

Tons of -584/650B options.

https://www.schwalbe.com/en/cataloge...nglish_low.pdf
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Old 05-14-19, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
Full katalog.

Tons of -584/650B options.

https://www.schwalbe.com/en/cataloge...nglish_low.pdf
. . . unless you are looking for non-knobby studded tyres in 650b/27.5, in that case, there are none. Yes, I just checked that catalogue.
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Old 05-14-19, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert C View Post
. . . unless you are looking for non-knobby studded tyres in 650b/27.5, in that case, there are none. Yes, I just checked that catalogue.
I find this whole thread fascinating as people are trying to hyper dial-in their rides. I do this with my house but my bicycle is just a utilitarian tool.
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Old 05-14-19, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
I find this whole thread fascinating as people are trying to hyper dial-in their rides. I do this with my house but my bicycle is just a utilitarian tool.
You love your clothes. We love our bikes. Not so strange.
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Old 05-14-19, 09:01 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
You love your clothes. We love our bikes. Not so strange.
I don't think it's strange at all.

It was more of an afternoon pontification about how do we, as humans, end up selecting what we really care about? Is it instinctual, is it environmental? Just something that came up when staring out the window.

Clothing is about quality, uniqueness and patterns.

I can afford nice clothes but not a bicycle of the same quality, so perhaps that's why I consider it utilitarian. Would I be different if I made more money?

More pontification while I watch the sea roll in from the lab window.
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Old 05-14-19, 09:30 AM
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A house/apartment is just a utilitarian tool for many.
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Old 05-14-19, 09:34 AM
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I gotcha @acidfast7. Thanks.
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Old 05-14-19, 09:58 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I gotcha @acidfast7. Thanks.
I just like patterns and that's why I went with a yellow bike!

Off to the pub!
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Old 05-14-19, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
A house/apartment is just a utilitarian tool for many.
Maybe. But it's an appreciating asset. Especially, in southeast England and it's the thing you possibly interact with the most in your human existence.
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Old 05-14-19, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I've used the wrong size tubes many times. I usually get away with it, but change them when you get a chance.
What pressure did you use? Do some experiments with pressure. You might get away with less than you think. But it requires more frequent topping up.
Got the correct tubes in the mail today, so I'll be putting them on the next time I have a chance.
Yesterday I started out with about 70psi, and it felt nice. Slight bulging in the rear, but it didn't look excessive (I weigh about 165lbs). The sidewall just said 90psi, but I assume that's the max? In any case, I still plan to do some research on popular pressures for that size. I'm sure there are plenty of threads about it here on the forums.

Some before and after pics (no comments on the slightly rusty chain, please, this was pre-clean and lube):

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Old 05-14-19, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by acidfast7 View Post
Maybe. But it's an appreciating asset. Especially, in southeast England.
That's what we homeowners hope for, at least. I'd be nervous to own in bubblicious places like Australia or Toronto.
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Old 05-15-19, 12:49 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
That's what we homeowners hope for, at least. I'd be nervous to own in bubblicious places like Australia or Toronto.
It's not really a bubble there unless the government changes legislation, which they won't as they're making tons of money in tax from sales.

Or the Chinese go poor or force proper capital controls, which won't happen either.
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Old 05-17-19, 09:54 AM
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A couple more pics in the wild. Thanks again everyone for recommending this, rather than the 650b conversion. It was definitely the way to go.




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Old 05-17-19, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post
So I'm going to try these 700 x 35 tires on my current wheels, and see how they do.
Weighing in late on this topic....

Clearly you got good advice and followed it. I'm glad it worked out for you. I've got a lot of garage space and like to tinker with old bikes, so I can offer some first hand experience relevant to the original question in case anyone is curious. (Spoiler alert: it pretty much leads to the conclusion already reached.)

I've got two pretty similar bikes -- a 1972 Motobecane Grand Record and a 1975 Motobecane Grand Jubilé -- that I sunk some money into. The Grand Record fits 700x32 tires with fenders. The Grand Jubilé fits 650x42 with fenders, though I'm currently only running 650x38. I had cantilever studs brazed on to the Grand Jubilé so brake reach isn't an issue.





My impressions: I'm sorry I don't do impressions. My interest is in bicycles.

Seriously though, the 700x32 Conti CP 4 Seasons tires on the Grand Record give a very comfortable ride. Over any kind of tolerably decent pavement, including chipseal, it's very nice. I wouldn't have any complaints at all. The 650x38 Panaracer Pari Moto tires on the Grand Jubilé, however, are really in a different class in more ways than one. First, I would note that these tires are incredibly supple. I have socks that aren't as supple as these tires. The result of that suppleness is that despite there width they roll like a dream. (Yes, I drank the Jan Heine Kool Aid.) So they don't really give anything up on pavement. Where they really shine though, is on gravel. They soak it up and soften it. It's very nice.

One other thing you should know is that with 650b the tire choices are very limited. The choices that are available are generally excellent for the purpose, but there are only a handful of options that I would even seriously consider. One thing the really good choices have in common is that they don't have spectacular puncture protection. The philosophy of the 650B true believers is that wider tires by virtue of being wide and used at lower pressures are simply less puncture prone than narrower tires at higher pressures. This is true to some extent, but as everyone on this forum knows commuting tends to require a much higher degree of puncture resistance than most other riding. If you're out on a recreational road ride and you have to ride through an unavoidable minefield of glass, it's a freak occurrence and you shrug it off. If you're commuting and that happens, it's Tuesday. Right? So the wide tire thing really does work for the kind of flats you get riding gravel, for instance, (except for the kind of sharp gravel that cuts your sidewall). For typical suburban bike lane debris, not so much.

So, circling back around to the original question and the same conclusion, as promised, I think for commuting if you can fit a 700x32 tire or bigger that's a better choice than 650B. On the other hand, building a 650B bike was a lot of fun and it's great to have one in the stable if you have room.
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Old 05-20-19, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
Weighing in late on this topic....
Wow Andy, thanks. Good thoughts!

I had the Pari-motos high on my list for a while – but the reviews mentioned how fragile it is, and I didn’t want that for commuting/gravel. I’m on 4-seasons (32mm). Your description makes them sound like the poor man’s Compass (Renee Herse) alternative (and a lot different than the Paselas)?

Nice on the braze on mounts. That is an interesting option I might have to try. I can’t go bigger than 27mm on my old butted steel bike (Allez).

I get more flats with wider tires. Partially its because they have more tread.

Objects on the ground don’t give me flats. Its junk on the ground that my front tire picks up and throws at the rear tire that gives me flats. The bigger tires, with knobbs, are more likely to grab something, throw it at the rear, where it gets caught and lodged. Could be more because of the tread than the tire size though.
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Old 05-20-19, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by chas58 View Post
I had the Pari-motos high on my list for a while – but the reviews mentioned how fragile it is, and I didn’t want that for commuting/gravel. I’m on 4-seasons (32mm). Your description makes them sound like the poor man’s Compass (Renee Herse) alternative (and a lot different than the Paselas)?
In one sense they are kind of like a poor man's Compass/Rene Herse. In fact, that's how I ended up with them. I wanted to try the 650B thing, but I wanted to start out cheap (as you see, it didn't end up that way, but I started with just the wheels and long reach center pull brakes). The Pari-Motos are very similar in design philosophy to the Rene Herse tires. My understanding is that they're actually a bit thinner, so more puncture prone and shorter wear life but arguably even more supple. Proponents of the Rene Herse tires claim that though they cost twice as much as the Pari Motos they last twice as long. There's a gravel version of the Pari Moto that gives up some suppleness for puncture protection. I haven't tried those.

I don't think I mentioned that I'm actually on my second set of Pari Motos. The first pair developed a goose egg on the front tire that I noticed when I rebuilt the bike after it was powder coated. The rear was pretty cut up, and I wanted to switch to skinwalls anyway, so I just shelved them. That was after only about 750 miles. Have I sold you on them yet? I got a very good deal on my second set. I plan to switch to 650x42 Baby Shoe Pass tires at some point.
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Old 05-23-19, 03:00 PM
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I have a Lemond racing bike, and it won't even take 700x28 tires. A kind BFer gave me a pair of inexpensive 650b wheels and tires to try. They fit on the Lemond. They have Pari-Moto 650x38 tires. They barely just fit. In fact, I think they've stretched and are threatening not to fit anymore, so I'm not sure how I feel about all this. But I love the ride. I go over a bump and ask myself, "Did I just go over a bump?" It's fun.

The conversion was super easy. I just put long reach Tektro dual-pivots on, and presto. I haven't done the gearing yet. The rear wheel has an old fashioned freewheel type hub with a 7-speed freewheel. The drivetrain until now was a Campagnolo 2x10. Oddly, the 10-speed shifter works on the 7-speed freewheel. On some shifts, I have to click twice, but the whole operation is noiseless.

I might move these wheels over to my McLean which willingly takes 28mm tires. The clearances are not nearly as tight. Then I'll make a decision and rebuild the rear wheel properly.

As I said earlier, I considered going to 650b on my Raleigh Super Course, but I'm going with 700x37, and I expect that will work well.
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Old 05-23-19, 05:29 PM
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It's turned out that bigger tires are a bigger winner for me than switching wheel sizes. I've long favored this idea that you can have two disk wheelsets at 700c/650b, or 29er/27.5+, even before it was au courant. But in practice as long as one wheelset isn't broken I'm probably not going to buy another.
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Old 05-24-19, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I have a Lemond racing bike, and it won't even take 700x28 tires. A kind BFer gave me a pair of inexpensive 650b wheels and tires to try. They fit on the Lemond. They have Pari-Moto 650x38 tires. They barely just fit. In fact, I think they've stretched and are threatening not to fit anymore, so I'm not sure how I feel about all this. But I love the ride. I go over a bump and ask myself, "Did I just go over a bump?" It's fun.
The conversion was super easy. I just put long reach Tektro dual-pivots on, and presto. I haven't done the gearing yet. The rear wheel has an old fashioned freewheel type hub with a 7-speed freewheel. The drivetrain until now was a Campagnolo 2x10. Oddly, the 10-speed shifter works on the 7-speed freewheel. On some shifts, I have to click twice, but the whole operation is noiseless.
I might move these wheels over to my McLean which willingly takes 28mm tires. The clearances are not nearly as tight. Then I'll make a decision and rebuild the rear wheel properly.
As I said earlier, I considered going to 650b on my Raleigh Super Course, but I'm going with 700x37, and I expect that will work well.
Wow, I'm pretty surprised to hear your Campagnolo shifters are working on the 7-speed freewheel. That's cool. The rear cassette on this bike came with the wheels that I moved over from another bike, and suffice to say the gearing isn't particularly urban friendly, so I will probably change it soon.

As for the ride, I'm really liking it, although I still want to try some different tire pressures. The ride is certainly more comfy over the city streets, but maybe not quite as night and day an improvement as I expected. I also need to do something about that horrible "comfort" saddle that is anything but.
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