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What if I cause damage to a car and I am at fault?

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What if I cause damage to a car and I am at fault?

Old 01-27-20, 06:59 PM
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denada
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What if I cause damage to a car and I am at fault?

i try to bike carefully and get better at it everyday, but i am still very capable of making mistakes. what if i were to accidentally scratch a car and it was my fault (e.g. i hit a bump, get thrown off my line for a moment, handle bar touches a parked or moving car, and there is cosmetic damage to that care). i figure they could take me to small claims. what i am curious about is if my renters insurance would possibly cover this (i do not have auto insurance because i don't have a car)? if so, what wording do i need to look for in an insurance policy to see if this would be covered and what area it would fall under (which would determine the max amount covered)?

i guess personal injury to a pedestrian is similar and i'm curious about that as well, but less curious because i have a hard time imagine hitting a pedestrian. except for when they suddenly jump into the recessed bike lane, which i doubt i'm at fault for. but it could happen where i am at fault, however unlikely. so i wonder if my renters insurance would do anything there too. the more i think about it, the stronger of a possibility this seems. especially riding lakefront where people are intoxicated or young children and suddenly run onto the bike path. of course i'm trying my hardest not to injure myself or anyone else, but thinking being careful is enough to eliminate the possibility of mistakes doesn't seem like a good plan. i'm going to do everything in my ability to not hit a pedestrian for moral reasons. still might happen.

i'm currently selecting renters insurance, so i don't have a active policy to review. i'm trying to figure out what language i should look for when comparing policies.

thank you!

this blog entry by lemonade insurance makes it sound like by purchasing "extra coverage" which is like their term for a rider, damage to an automobile is covered if you are at fault.

sorry to keep using lemonade, but they seem to have the most info posted online. in their illinois sample contract, makes it sound like another section would cover if you hit a pedestrian (up to the amount of coverage in your plan) ...
  1. Coverage F – Medical Payments To Others

    We will pay the necessary medical expenses that are incurred or medically ascertained within three years from the date of an accident causing "bodily injury". Medical expenses means reasonable charges for medical, surgical, x-ray, dental, ambulance, hospital, professional nursing, prosthetic devices and funeral services. This coverage does not apply to you or regular residents of your household except "residence employees". As to others, this coverage applies only:
    1. To a person on the "insured location" with the permission of an "insured"; or
    2. To a person off the "insured location", if the "bodily injury":
      1. Arises out of a condition on the "insured location" or the ways immediately adjoining;
      2. Is caused by the activities of an "insured";
      3. Is caused by a "residence employee" in the course of the "residence employee's" employment by an "insured"; or
      4. Is caused by an animal owned by or in the care of an "insured".

    Last edited by denada; 01-27-20 at 07:38 PM.
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    Old 01-27-20, 07:45 PM
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    randallr
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    In several decades of commuting this has never crossed my mind. Ever.
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    Old 01-27-20, 07:47 PM
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    denada
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    well this is my first year of commuting, and i wonder all the time. i'm an anxious person. i like to know what happens if things go wrong and what we can do to mitigate the effects of mistakes. first line of defense is obviously ride carefully. i'm interested in the second line too.
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    Old 01-27-20, 08:28 PM
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    There are bike specific insurance policies.

    First of all, unless there is a very serious crash, the damage to a car is usually minor (scratch, small dent, broken glass, etc). So, running into a parked car or something, I would imagine it would be exceptionally rare to have > $1K or $2K damages.

    On the other hand, if both the bike and vehicle are moving, there is often an element of shared liability, and I think it is rare that damages would come back against the cyclist. Of course, you might also have medical bills... health insurance?

    Then, there is damage to your own bike... Don't ride something that you can't afford.

    Personally I trust my own riding, but my riding has evolved over the years, and I realize that skills have also evolved.
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    Old 01-27-20, 08:50 PM
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    Umm, maybe buy your insurance through an agent who can answer these questions?
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    Old 01-27-20, 10:01 PM
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    denada
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    i possibly overestimated the amount of shared interest there would be in this topic among bicycle commuters. or maybe people who are interested and/or knowledgeable on the topic just are not online right now.

    if i do find out anything concrete, i will post that info. if anyone knows or has first hand experiences to share, that would be much appreciated.

    otherwise, thanks for the replies. best.
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    Old 01-27-20, 10:17 PM
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    Originally Posted by denada View Post
    i try to bike carefully and get better at it everyday, but i am still very capable of making mistakes. what if i were to accidentally scratch a car and it was my fault (e.g. i hit a bump, get thrown off my line for a moment, handle bar touches a parked or moving car, and there is cosmetic damage to that care). i figure they could take me to small claims. what i am curious about is if my renters insurance would possibly cover this (i do not have auto insurance because i don't have a car)? if so, what wording do i need to look for in an insurance policy to see if this would be covered and what area it would fall under (which would determine the max amount covered)?

    i guess personal injury to a pedestrian is similar and i'm curious about that as well, but less curious because i have a hard time imagine hitting a pedestrian. except for when they suddenly jump into the recessed bike lane, which i doubt i'm at fault for. but it could happen where i am at fault, however unlikely. so i wonder if my renters insurance would do anything there too. the more i think about it, the stronger of a possibility this seems. especially riding lakefront where people are intoxicated or young children and suddenly run onto the bike path. of course i'm trying my hardest not to injure myself or anyone else, but thinking being careful is enough to eliminate the possibility of mistakes doesn't seem like a good plan. i'm going to do everything in my ability to not hit a pedestrian for moral reasons. still might happen.

    i'm currently selecting renters insurance, so i don't have a active policy to review. i'm trying to figure out what language i should look for when comparing policies.

    thank you!

    this blog entry by lemonade insurance makes it sound like by purchasing "extra coverage" which is like their term for a rider, damage to an automobile is covered if you are at fault.

    sorry to keep using lemonade, but they seem to have the most info posted online. in their illinois sample contract, makes it sound like another section would cover if you hit a pedestrian (up to the amount of coverage in your plan) ...










    Happened to me. Was my fault. However, since it was an accident with a car, my auto insurance covered it (the car AND my bike). I had a carbon frame that got ruined as it was gouged by the license plate. Got the whole frame replaced and the damage to the car was taken care of.
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    Old 01-27-20, 10:47 PM
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    Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
    Umm, maybe buy your insurance through an agent who can answer these questions?
    [/thread]


    -Kedosto
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    Old 01-28-20, 12:30 AM
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    I hit a parked car in my younger days and had to just pay out of pocket for the repair. I was amazed at the side of the dent I put in the car’s trunk moving at a relatively slow speed. I however would not have hit it had I not been looking elsewhere at the time. As mentioned above, if you also have a car and automobile insurance you can check your auto policy to see if they would cover such an incident. Had I not been a minor and my parents hadn’t wanted for me to learn a lesson their auto policy would have covered my incident.
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    Old 01-28-20, 12:34 AM
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    denada
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    ^must have knocked it pretty hard to put a dent bigger than your parents' deductible in it. though i touched a lexus once parallel parking -- i mean barely touched -- and the repair was thousands. to get to one part another part had to be removed and that meant they had to this and blah blah. my original plan was to pay out of pocket until i saw that bodyshop quote.

    Originally Posted by GeneO View Post
    Happened to me. Was my fault. However, since it was an accident with a car, my auto insurance covered it (the car AND my bike). I had a carbon frame that got ruined as it was gouged by the license plate. Got the whole frame replaced and the damage to the car was taken care of.
    glad to hear it worked out well as it could for you.

    i'm required to have renters insurance as part of my lease. not really enforced but if something were to go wrong and i didn't, it'd be in the contract for my property manager to point at. my previous plan had lapsed a couple months ago. about a week ago i started to address that. i actually did use a broker. i used to have a house and a car and a life materially complicated enough to make an insurance broker worthwhile to come up with bundle deals and all that. they were a remnant i hadn't gotten around to ditching. they were not coming up with quotes that met my needs, so today i sent them an email saying it's been great (they probably wanted me off their client list too, buying one $200 policy a year). and today i spent a good number of hours reading about renters insurance in general and then a few more hours going over specific quotes.

    i believe i've come up with a renters insurance plan that's cycling insurance with a little bit added on to take care of my lease requirement. hopefully i'll never have to find out if i succeeded. in the 12 years i've had home or renters insurance, i'm yet to have made a claim. auto insurance is a different story. never a serious accident, but boy did i bump things. i'm better on a bike.

    Last edited by denada; 01-28-20 at 12:42 AM.
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    Old 01-28-20, 01:48 AM
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    I collect business cards of insurance lawyers and when I hit a car I write “Sorry!” on one and tuck it under their wiper
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    Old 01-28-20, 08:55 AM
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    AFAIK, most bicycle-specific policies are intended to protect your bike, rather than damage you might cause. It could be worthwhile if you have a high-end bike.

    The thought of liability insurance for cycling did cross my mind during the years when I had no auto policy. Check with an agent on this, but also - AFAIK - the driver's uninsured/underinsured motorist policy should pick up any damage that you might cause. There might be some trouble if the driver isn't carrying that policy, but people driving with the bare minimum insurance tend to be a bit less litigious.

    The chance of (1) you being involved in an accident where (2) the driver has the legal minimum insurance/legal license and registration but (3) it doesn't cover damage you caused is so incredibly small, it's probably not worth worrying about.
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    Old 01-28-20, 09:23 AM
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    Pick yourself up, hop on your bike, and ride off. The car was at fault for getting in your way. Even if parked.
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    Old 01-28-20, 09:36 AM
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    I doubt renters insurance would cover damage you do to a car, likely it would have to come out of your own pocket.
    The driver could use their uninsured/underinsured coverage but the insurance company may come after you to reimburse them anyway. That happened when an uninsured driver hit my car, my insurance went after the other driver but I don't know the outcome.
    Luckily a bicycle hitting a car generally isn't going to cause more than a couple thousand $ in damage and almost certainly won't cause bodily injury to the other party as long as you aren't running down pedestrians. Most people I think in a real pinch if it came down to it could manage to come up with the repair costs for whatever damage they do, that's why cyclists aren't required to have liability insurance the way motorists are.
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    Old 01-28-20, 10:19 AM
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    Disclaimer: I'm not an insurance agent, and I certainly don't know the specifics of any policy you have or might look at.

    That being said, you're liable for damage to a car if you're at fault (unless the incident happens in a no-fault state). Uninsured? You can hope the car owner has uninsured/underinsured coverage, and the insurance company thinks it's too much hassle to come after you. You could still be on the hook for kilobucks.

    If you've got some other policy, most insurance agents can write you an additional policy for personal liability. As long as you're not in a profession with enormous legal issues (like medicine), you can probably get $1,000,000 coverage for less than $200/year. You'll have to ask if they have lower coverage available, if you think that's appropriate.

    My stockbroker is also an insurance broker -- he can sell either stocks or insurance. I'd rather get my stock advice from a fiduciary advisor. And I'd rather get my insurance needs addressed by an insurance agent who can help tailor a policy to my needs. A broker is someone who'll tell me "I can sell you something" but not tell me that it's best for my situation.
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    Old 01-28-20, 12:49 PM
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    personal liability can and usually is included in renters insurance -- at least it was in my last and is in my new plan -- including damage caused off the insured's property but by the insured or the insured's property. automobiles of course being excluded so you cannot use your renters insurance as auto insurance (my plan also excludes hovercrafts, motorcycles, helicopters, airplanes, and a few other items but not bicycles or anything vague enough like "vehicles"). but the excluded is your automobile or hovercraft.

    i'm going to have someone look at it to double check, but i'm 87.33 percent sure my plan covers damage to an automobile caused by my bike. doesn't mean i'd make a claim instead of pay it out of pocket, but i'd have the option if my bike caused significant enough damage.

    concerning pedestrians -- which again, i'm an extremely careful rider and the plan is to never crash into a pedestrian -- my plan covers others' medical expenses caused not only by injury on the insured's property but by unintentional actions of the uninsured including off the insured's property. of course with a long list of exclusions but a bicycle is not on that list. again, i'm going to have someone double check my policy to make sure there isn't some gap i'm missing or term i'm misinterpreting.

    if i am correct and my plan does function as i hope, i'd be happy to share the language of those sections for anyone who rides all the time but doesn't have auto or a separate bike insurance plan (which i got quotes for and were quite expensive for what they provide; they must be for people with bikes more expensive than mine). though how much help that offers people living outside of illinois my vary.

    i live in an at-fault state (practically, they assign percentages of liability based on percent of fault, which seems crazy complicated). there would be a chance of the driver's insurance company suing me to regain what they paid, as i've heard plenty of instances of this happening in auto-to-auto accidents were one party was uninsured. i've actually even heard of insurance companies suing each other over disagreements of fault.

    also, if i cause damage i want to be able to take financial responsibility. i mean if their insurance is gonna cover it, not sue me, and not raise their premiums i'm certainly fine with that too. otherwise, i'd like to be a responsible person.

    Last edited by denada; 01-28-20 at 01:18 PM.
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    Old 01-28-20, 01:17 PM
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    Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
    I collect business cards of insurance lawyers and when I hit a car I write “Sorry!” on one and tuck it under their wiper
    Originally Posted by alan s View Post
    Pick yourself up, hop on your bike, and ride off. The car was at fault for getting in your way. Even if parked.
    While living in Germany, our 12 yo '76 Mercedes Benz 250 Wagon was hit on the driver's side rear fender by a bicyclist while it was parked in a legal spot on the street, breaking the radio antenna and perhaps causing a tiny scratch in the fender. The bicyclist left a piece of paper under the windshield telling us to have any body shop to fix the damage and have them send him the bill (at least is that we were told it said since we couldn't read his German.)
    Took it to a local body shop, they fixed it, repainted the fender and sent him the bill without a hitch.

    Moral of the story: Some bicyclists are more responsible/honest than others.
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    Old 01-28-20, 01:21 PM
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    12 years ago I was deemed at fault in a collision with a car while on my bike. My body damaged the hood and took out a side mirror. Oops. The drivers insurance company (or lawyer, I can't remember) sent me a bill for the damages. I was prepared to make good out of pocket when my aunt who was my insurance agent at the time informed me that my homeowners policy would cover it. I didn't even know I had coverage for this.
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    Old 01-28-20, 01:30 PM
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    ^thanks for sharing AlmostTrick! glad to hear it worked out for you and that it's possible for policies outside of auto insurance to cover such incidents.

    yes, I-Like-To-Bike. i think their comments may have been made in jest, but responsibility and honesty are important.


    Originally Posted by RoadKill View Post
    isn't going to cause more than a couple thousand $ in damage [...] Most people I think in a real pinch if it came down to it could manage to come up with the repair costs for whatever damage they do, that's why cyclists aren't required to have liability insurance the way motorists are.
    i do not believe most people could come up with a extra few thousand in a pinch, not without going into debt. in my circle and it sounds like your circle, yes. but, at least in america, even a few hundred in an unexpected expense can throw people into a financial downward spiral. not everyone is a middle class boglehead. and even if you do have a sizable emergency cash stash, it might not be the most economical means of addressing the expense.

    Last edited by denada; 01-28-20 at 01:35 PM.
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    Old 01-28-20, 02:01 PM
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    Originally Posted by denada View Post
    i do not believe most people could come up with a extra few thousand in a pinch, not without going into debt. in my circle and it sounds like your circle, yes. but, at least in america, even a few hundred in an unexpected expense can throw people into a financial downward spiral.
    Yet most of these people carry monthly smart phone plans with unlimited internet, cable TV, go out to eat, go to movies, sporting events, and buy all sorts of stuff they don't really need... often on credit, so they're paying interest on their debt every month! It's not how much you make it's how much you spend.

    https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012...-an-emergency/
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    Old 01-28-20, 02:27 PM
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    I love it when the A&S crowd comes out of their lair and imagines most people to us
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    Old 01-28-20, 02:45 PM
      #22  
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    Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
    I love it when the A&S crowd comes out of their lair and imagines most people to us
    I have no idea who you are referring to, or what issues you have with A&S, but do you check poster history before making claims like that? If not you may be wrong, and if yes that's even sadder!
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    Old 01-28-20, 05:06 PM
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    arts and sciences?
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