I ride, run and hike in lightning. Love it. Nothing beats that purple close-up flash and the chest-punching boom of a near miss. Mind you, I cultivate a good relationship with my thunder gods :)

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/pub/ltg/NOAA...allsoffeet.jpg

:roflmao:

Thanks a lot for your eloquent reply Wind and Snow. Simply because you personally do not like sarcasm does not mean I am going to change my sense of humor. I know that topic is a little touchy for some people and perhaps I should not have been quite so smug. But come on, North Americans do have the largest personal automobiles in the world (Canadian included). The U.S. does have more gun violence per capita than any other developed nation, but it is great to see that it is on the decline. Finally, I don’t know about anyone else, but the only “Gated Communities” I have ever seen are in Latin America and the Untied States. After traveling quite a bit, I have never seen one in Europe or Canada. However, that is just personal observation. What was it again that I know nothing about?

Warning for “Wind and Snow”; the following paragraphs contains stereotyping. Read at your own risk!

I have found that on average, cultural stereotypes do have some truth to them. But of course people vary with regards to their beliefs and personalities. It is that cultural variance within North America that I find most intriguing about the continent. Not like here in Finland where 99% of the inhabitants are Finns. Or even worse in Sweden where there has been more immigration, but everyone seems to have been taught that consensus is the only way, and everyone must act and think the same. Of course not everyone does think the same; it is just the way that so many people seem to act. Oh well, me and my stereotypes. I always thought that Canadian liked sarcasm and stereotype jokes: People from the West making jokes about Ontarians; Ontarians joking about Newfies; and Torontonians cracking Cab-driver jokes. I guess Wind and Snow is just an exception to a Canadian stereotype, eh. Thank god that we have some variance in this world and not everyone’s personality falls into a stereotype.

k71021, your response is well considered and appreciated. Thank you. I must apologize for missing your sarcasm. You are right, there are some very serious issues in many US cities, much like there are in some of Canada's cities and in London, and Madrid and Paris and Johanasberg and Moscow and and and.

Anywhere there is an ethnically rich, diverse and growing population, you will find segregation, separation and stereotypes. Yes guns are very touchy and many people, not just some Americans, believe they have a natural right to own and use guns. I don't want to get into that debate.

As far as gated communities. You can find them all over the world, although many don't have locked gates and armed guards, they still have walls to keep people out. Most British, American, or Canadian newly built suburbs are like these. I use these examples because I have personal experiences with them.

You will find armed guards and gates all over Mexico, Central and South America, The Carribbean, Russia and South Africa (that I know of).

Regardless, I am charmed by your familiarity of Canadian cities (no irony here). And I now understand and appreciate your irony - although sarcasm is the lowest form of irony.

I'm sorry I don't have the same understanding and appreciation of your part of the world, I'll have to do something about that.

Lets get back to thunder! Did you know that lightning does strike more that once in the same place? I regularly used to watch the CN Tower get struck multiple times from my downtown Toronto apartment (while I heard gunshots in the alley...)

You know, in the past week there have been two separate incidents of Boy Scouts getting struck my lightning and dying. I think it's worthwhile to assume the position if you're in the middle of nowhere and there's a thunderstorm.

Thank you for the nice reply Wind and Snow. I have to agree that sacasm is the lowest form of irony - but I just personally find it so funny!

Now, like you said "Lets get back to thunder and lightning!" :)

Had a friend get struck by lightning in grade school. Had a mark on his lower ribs and his ankles if I remember correctly. From where the current moved through him. He was paralyzed for a couple hours after the strike. Scary stuff. After that, any time we were outside and heard a rumble, we promptly moved inside. To this day, whenever there's lightning about, I either remain inside or move with absolute purpose (e.g. run to/from a car).

I was stung by a wasp once.

WindAndSnow, I would strongly disagree with your characterization that "most" American (can't speak for Canadian or British) suburbs have walls to keep people out. It varies by region, in FL it was relatively common but here in VA I don't think I've seen a single gated community, and there are a LOT of new suburbs here.

Thanks for calling me to task on this. I could have written my point better. I wrote:

"As far as gated communities. You can find them all over the world, although many don't have locked gates and armed guards, they still have walls to keep people out. Most British, American, or Canadian newly built suburbs are like these. I use these examples because I have personal experiences with them."

You will note that I wrote "many don't have locked gates and armed guards, they still have walls to keep people out." You are right, I should have notgeneralized so much as to use the word "most". My experience - and I have none in VA, sorry, is that a lot of suburban developments have free access through the roads and sidewalks, but all walled or fenced everywhere else, so other neighbourhoods can only get into that "new" neighbourhood by the designated access.

A fence, a wall, a gate all serve to keep some people out and other people in. I did not mean to imply that there are "gated" communities everywhere. I am not that presumptious. Again, thanks for calling me to task on this!

lol seriously..

I can't speak for other countries but I think you have misrepresented Canada. I'm pretty familiar with development around Toronto, and in Winnipeg, and I haven't seen a big trend to gating/walling. The greater Toronto area has (unfortunately) experienced massive suburban sprawl and the occurrence of enclosed communities is extremely rare. Here and there there might be small developments of 10-20 attached houses that operate more like a condo than private homes, and have shared lawn space and a communal pool. Those might be walled off and have an unobstructed driveway rather than street entrance, but that's about it. It's true there are larger developments that don't attach to the surrounding grid on all sides, but instead flow out through several exits onto one main street, but they often contain hundreds of houses and within their boundaries there is no gating. Their lack of street connections is not intended to keep riff-raff like us out...it's designed to reduce car traffic by pushing it out onto the main streets, and often there are pedestrian and bike access points all around.

Robert

Thanks for your clarification, Cooker. I was hoping to get back to talking about lightning on this thread. Regardless. you've illustrated my point, somewhat with your words above. The suburband communities may not consciously be keeping people out, but the way they are constracted with wall or large fences between them and the streets, regardless of the access points, are still sending a message that "unless you live or are invited in this community, you are not welcome. Look at Thornhill, Ont. Drive along Steeles. Even though there is no reason to walk or bike north by street or "access point", you certaintly don't feel like you are welcome to do so. The eight-foot walls, aka fences, send a clear signal. The same is true with Richmond Hill, Newmarket and other "newer" growing communities ( I am aware that non-suburban Newmarket Town/City is not like this and is actually a beautiful, welcoming place). Contrast these suburbs with any of the older (20-30 year-old developments) in Etobicoke, or Scarborough or even Rosedale!!! There are no physical or symbolic barriers from walking off Bloor Street and onto sidewalks in front of million dollar homes. In fact, that used to be my lunch-time walk when I work at Yonge and Bloor.

I'm not picking on Toronto, I just knew it and its unparralled bike paths well. I'm not talking about "gated" communities, I'm talking about suburban developments being designed to not be welcome place to anyone.

Regardless of these walls, I do know that lightning can get into these communities!

Thanks for listening to my banter, Cooker!

It is funny that some other people have taken a point on your fence comment Wind and Snow, because I was actually thing about doing the same thing. But I though I would just drop the topic.

I think a lot of the new subdivisions have to build fencing along the main thoroughfares to keep the local city council happy. Just so they new home buyers do not make the street look like a patchwork of poorly constructed wood things. I imagine it is likely even a city by-law that developers have to follow in many instances. I know the Toronto rather well, and think it will be interesting to see what happens when all of these fences in cites like Brampton, Mississauga, and Markham start falling apart. Then there will be that quarter of the local residents don’t care (the same ones that do not take care of their lawns or homes), and aren’t willing to pay a dime to repair or rebuild the community fence, because they did not put them up in the first place. That should make from some fun neighbourhood meeting!

Now, Lets get back to thunder and lightning!

um...OK.
I don't set out from home on my bike if there's lightning, but if I'm riding and it starts, I generally keep riding and just avoid open spaces like parking lots or bridges. My commute home is all old-urban and there are lots of tall buildings along the way which I assume (maybe stupidly) will act as my lightning shields. I'd be more worried about windbursts either blowing me off my bike or throwing a tree limb in my face, and I would be inclined to seek shelter if it was getting really gusty, not if it's just flashing.
RGC

By contrast, 619 cyclists were killed in motor vehicle accidents in 2003.
http://www.hwysafety.org/safety%5Ffa...s/bicycles.pdf

Cooker, K71021!

Thanks for humouring my anti-suburban rant. I suppose I'm talking aesthetics, and you two are speaking from an urban planning point of view.

Thanks for the debate. It was fun while it lasted. I won't admit defeat, but I will plead to becoming irrelevant.

Next topic (on this string): The Metric system and why its important during a lightning storm.

:roflmao:

I would love to see you work that topic in smoothly! :D

Everyone knows that lightning is most strongly attracted to Elbonian Standard threading. Sheesh! :p

Because if you misconvert how many Standard electrical units hit you into Metric electrical units, you might have no idea how fried you just got!

You're on!

I was reading this article about advances in determining the distance of lightning strikes after a thunder clap. It seems the have developed a device that can determine distance to within a metre and can find strikes that are as close as one kilometre.

Since most world bike events, including the TdF and the Olympics measure distances in metric, i.e. kilometres and metres, some cyclists now have their computers set to metric. This is most useful during a lightning storm because, thanks to this new machine, they can quickly determine if their is a lightning strike danger without the cumbersome conversion to feet, yards and miles.

A portion of the gripping article is attached for your reading pleasure. So is the link.

System Locates Lightning Strikes to Within Meters

A system for determining the locations of nearby lightning strikes from electric-field and acoustic measurements has been developed and built. The system includes at least three receivers, each equipped with an antenna and a microphone. For each strike, the system measures the difference between the times of arrival of the electric-field and sonic (thunder) pulses at each receiver, computes the distance of the strike from the time difference and the speed of sound (about 320 m/s), then uses the distances to determine the location of the strike. The basic concept of this system is thus a variant and extension of the time-honored concept of estimating the distance of a lightning strike from the difference between the times of arrival of the visible flash and the audible thunder.

"Nearby" as used here signifies that the receivers and the lightning strikes of interest are located at distances of the order of 1 km from each other. Older lightning-location systems cover observation areas with radii of the order of 30 miles (48 km), and typically locate lightning strikes with errors of the order of 0.5 km or more; thus, the older systems do not locate strikes accurately enough for purposes of assessing actual or potential damage by lightning to specific structures and pieces of equipment. The developmental system locates strikes to within errors of the order of a meter.

http://www.nasatech.com/Briefs/July00/KSC11992.html

I am humbled by your investigative skills and acumen for collecting useless information. Good Job! :)

Not nessessarily, you can survive a lightning strike if it doesn't go through your heart, and often there is no obvious damage from it. An example is this guy

Thanks man, I knew I had to give it 110 per cent, so I worked day and night to get it done.

Thanks for the fun!
hyvästi (?)

I was really hoping for a picture of a guy lying paralyzed on a hospital bed in the lightning desperation position.