Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Commuting
Reload this Page >

How often to take commute breaks?

Notices
Commuting Bicycle commuting is easier than you think, before you know it, you'll be hooked. Learn the tips, hints, equipment, safety requirements for safely riding your bike to work.

How often to take commute breaks?

Old 04-18-22, 12:22 PM
  #1  
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
How often to take commute breaks?

Hi all,

I've been riding for a few years, but typically only for a few (~2) miles per day with an occasional 10mi mtb ride on the weekends. I recently moved, and my commute is now ~6mi round trip 5 days/wk plus the usual weekend mtb ride. I noticed after 2 weeks of doing this that I'm physically exhaused, and had to spend most of Sunday sleeping. I'm a young dude, and in ok-ish shape so I didn't think this would be an issue. The area I live is very hilly.

My question- how long is your commute and how often do you take days off? Do you ever worry about over-use injuries? Is it something you get used to over time?

Thanks!
dev_the_dude is offline  
Old 04-18-22, 12:41 PM
  #2  
Disco Infiltrator
 
Darth Lefty's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,737

Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem

Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3098 Post(s)
Liked 2,074 Times in 1,351 Posts
If this is the only workout you've got then yes it's a big increase but no it's not that much in total and you will likely get used to it. It's really about the bare minimum amount of exercise you should have been doing already, if you have a desk job. Lots of people roll out of bed and go for a half hour jog with the dog every single morning.

pdf link Physical Activity Guidelines for Americans, 2nd edition (health.gov)
  • For substantial health benefts, adults should do at least 150 minutes (2 hours and 30 minutes) to 300 minutes (5 hours) a week of moderate-intensity... aerobic physical activity
  • Adults should also do muscle-strengthening activities of moderate or greater intensity and that involve all major muscle groups on 2 or more days a week, as these activities provide additional health benefts.
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17

Last edited by Darth Lefty; 04-18-22 at 12:48 PM.
Darth Lefty is online now  
Old 04-18-22, 01:05 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
caloso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,101 Times in 1,415 Posts
I also think that you're going to get used to it. It may have been a big jump up in activity, but it will soon be your new normal.
caloso is offline  
Likes For caloso:
Old 04-18-22, 01:18 PM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 478
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 166 Post(s)
Liked 251 Times in 147 Posts
three miles each way? whats the down time? whats stress(physical or mental) level at work?

to answer questions. 10-20 miles each way, Not really, Harder in the winter but other than that its not a big deal. I would think like 2 or 3 weeks and should be pretty easy to do 3 miles each way..
sloppy12 is offline  
Old 04-18-22, 02:32 PM
  #5  
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,577

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3856 Post(s)
Liked 2,526 Times in 1,555 Posts
Originally Posted by dev_the_dude
Hi all,

I've been riding for a few years, but typically only for a few (~2) miles per day with an occasional 10mi mtb ride on the weekends. I recently moved, and my commute is now ~6mi round trip 5 days/wk plus the usual weekend mtb ride. I noticed after 2 weeks of doing this that I'm physically exhaused, and had to spend most of Sunday sleeping. I'm a young dude, and in ok-ish shape so I didn't think this would be an issue. The area I live is very hilly.

My question- how long is your commute and how often do you take days off? Do you ever worry about over-use injuries? Is it something you get used to over time?

Thanks!
To quote and extend what the great Greg Lemond said: "It never gets easier, you just go faster [or longer.]"
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Likes For ThermionicScott:
Old 04-18-22, 03:36 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
BobbyG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 5,901

Bikes: 2015 Charge Plug, 2007 Dahon Boardwalk, 1997 Nishiki Blazer, 1984 Nishiki International, 2006 Felt F65, 1989 Dahon Getaway V

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1342 Post(s)
Liked 1,606 Times in 796 Posts
Originally Posted by dev_the_dude
My question- how long is your commute and how often do you take days off? Do you ever worry about over-use injuries? Is it something you get used to over time?
My commute was 9 miles each way.

I listened to my body. Sometimes I'd ride all five days in a row with a longer fun ride on the weekend, sometimes I would ride one day and not feel like doing the next. But I averaged 4 to 5 bike commutes a week for many years. In my 40s there were a couple of times I rode every day for a month. By my 50s that was no longer do-able. But at 53 years old I bought studded snow tires and a rain cape and began riding
more often in the winter and rainy weather.

While I worry a little more about over-use injuries the older I get. In my late 40s I acquired a 2nd bike to get a change of position and switched bikes every so often. That seemed to help with repetitive-use issues. At 53 I had three bikes to rotate, and now I have four.

As far as "...get(ting) used to (it) over time..." yes. I was off the bike for a year at 48 due to a non-cycling injury. When I got back to riding it took about a year to get back to where I was. It took almost half a year to be able to bike the 9 miles needed to get to work, and another 6 to be able to ride all up all the hills without dismounting and walking. I live in Colorado Springs which is one of the hillier cities out there. My old 3x7 MTB commuter always had very low gearing but in my 50s I lowered the gearing on my two 2x roadbikes. I bought an old 7-speed 20" folding bike last year at 59 and installed a gear-set with much lower (and higher) gearing...but the lower gears were necessary.

At 60 I can tell my muscle strength has slowly been declining, but I feel like my stamina is increasing. However the amount of recovery needed after longer rides seems to be increasing.

You said you're a "young dude" so I understand how you want to know how you stack up to others, but my advice is this: Everybody is physically different, so don't worry so much about measuring against others the distance you ride, or how many days in a row you can ride, or how much time it takes to recover...measure against yourself. You'll see cycles of improvement and decline and you'll run a lesser risk of over-use injuries if you listen to your body and not somebody else's. Push yourself for sure, but towards goals that make sense for you.

As some have said here on bikeforums, "Ride YOUR ride".

Good luck, ride safe and ENJOY yourself!
BobbyG is offline  
Likes For BobbyG:
Old 04-18-22, 03:45 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,440
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 861 Post(s)
Liked 232 Times in 135 Posts
I agree with all who have suggested that you will get used to it, especially as the weather improves and Spring/Summer exhilaration sets in. However, if you find that we are all wrong, I believe you should only ride to work until riding to work starts to really suck. Taking a few days (or weeks) off is better than burning yourself out and never wanting to ride again.
Papa Tom is offline  
Likes For Papa Tom:
Old 04-18-22, 06:16 PM
  #8  
Super Moderator
 
making's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Greenwood Indiana
Posts: 2,805

Bikes: Surly Crosscheck

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1542 Post(s)
Liked 868 Times in 521 Posts
I am retired now, but if it ain't fun, take a break. I used to ride almost all the time there was no ice. When I didn't ride for a few days (usually heat or ice related) my co-workers would try to imply I was less than pleasant to be around. So they would tell me it was time to start riding again. But if it ain't fun. take a break.
__________________
Good Night Chesty, Wherever You Are
making is offline  
Old 04-19-22, 08:02 AM
  #9  
Miles to Go
 
timdow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 711

Bikes: 2022 Juiced Crosscurrent X, 2022 Fuji Touring, 1998 Schwinn Moab (drop bar conversion), 2010 LHT (Stolen)

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked 145 Times in 95 Posts
My commute is 35 miles round trip. I do it 3X times a week. The ride seriously kicked my butt for a while, but now just injuries me a little. Keep at it, 3 miles each way will get much easier soon.
timdow is offline  
Old 04-19-22, 08:21 AM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
mcours2006's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 6,198

Bikes: ...a few.

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2009 Post(s)
Liked 404 Times in 230 Posts
Originally Posted by dev_the_dude
I'm a young dude, and in ok-ish shape so I didn't think this would be an issue.
!
One or both of those statements might not be true if you are exhausted after riding 30 miles a week.

But in any case, the more you do it the easier it gets. Keep it up.
mcours2006 is offline  
Likes For mcours2006:
Old 04-19-22, 09:14 AM
  #11  
Dedicated Detritus Dodger
 
bargo68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Fairfax, California
Posts: 471

Bikes: Some mighty fine ones at that!

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 185 Post(s)
Liked 567 Times in 238 Posts
My commute is 49 miles round trip and I do it 3 or 4 times a week. Last Monday I took my bike with the steepest gearing and rode the return leg in a 25 mph headwind. There is a 4 1/2 mile long bridge in the middle of my ride and the winds were probably closer to 30-35 mph on it. I was in my lowest gear (42/24 for those who know about these things) and I was mashing at about 8 mph for 30 minutes to get across the bridge.
My
Ass
Was
Kicked!!!
I took a full week off the bike and realized I have been maybe suffering from a cumulative sort of exhaustion. I am 53 years old and in good health. My work day is full of physical activity, although I would say cycling is 75% of my exercise.
To the OP: like others have said, listen to your body but your mileage is manageable and you will certainly get used to it. Just do it in your own time and at your own pace.
And good on ya for being a commuter!
bargo68 is offline  
Likes For bargo68:
Old 04-19-22, 10:20 AM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 701
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 347 Post(s)
Liked 418 Times in 250 Posts
When I started commuting (12m round-trip) I was a ravenous beast and would bring a pack of oatmeal with me to make at my desk because adding 60 miles a week to my cycling (making it 150~200miles/week total) made me super hungry. But after a while your body gets used to the load and in a few months didn't need any extra food as the body became more efficient to the task.

Also, are you getting enough sleep during the week? Can you add another 30mins during the workweek of sleeping so you don't build up a 'sleep debt', almost everyone doesn't get enough sleep anyway. As any physical activity increases you should also try to increase the amount of time you spend sleeping.

Allow yourself one or two days a week where you don't have to commute by bike and take the bus or get a ride from a co-worker etc. and make those bike days 'optional' if you feel good then maybe ride. But don't feel obligated to do it. Then you mentally only have to concentrate on communing probably only 3-4 days.
billridesbikes is offline  
Old 04-19-22, 11:16 AM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Harhir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 666

Bikes: Fahrradmanufaktur Trekking Bike, 2 x Lightning Phantom, bikeE AT, Radwagon3

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked 137 Times in 72 Posts
When I started to commute several years ago on a 16 mile round trip started with 2-3 times per week slowly increasing it to 5 days per week. Now my commute is shorter but more hilly. I still ride 5 days a week and sometime even extend my rides to get more miles. And yes I often ride on weekends as well. Your stamina will increase over time. Just take it easy and build up slowly at your own time and your own pace.
Harhir is offline  
Old 04-19-22, 01:29 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,624

Bikes: Trek 730 (quad), 720 & 830, Bike Friday NWT, Brompton M36R & M6R, Dahon HAT060 & HT060, ...

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 800 Post(s)
Liked 317 Times in 235 Posts
Similarly to others, 10 miles RT and occasional errands of 10 miles RT on top. I do not even think about being tired. Maybe if I particularly pushed myself, I could feel exhaustion, but I do not and it is sort of like breathing, you just go on with that. I had a dedicated car, but practically ceased using it, so now I do not even have the option of going by car. Yes, when I was starting to ride, I had to plan which day to ride and which not, feeling impacts such as you describe.
2_i is online now  
Old 04-19-22, 08:01 PM
  #15  
Full Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 367
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked 34 Times in 22 Posts
Way back in 2006-2009 I commuted 4500 miles in 10 months.
19 miles AM, 9 miles Pm was my standard day.
I was in my 50ś and roughy 10-15 pounds overweight.
Enough about me.

You are a young dude in ok-ish shape.
Your hilly 3 miles ride, how long does it take?
Unless your hilly commute has monster hills I would not expect you to be exhausted.

Do you have a primery care doctor or nurse practitioner?
I suggest you see your healthcare provider.
Tell them what you told us.
A comprehensive blood panel would rule out any unidentified health conditions.

I apologize if this comes off as harsh.
I mean no offense.

fat biker
fat biker is offline  
Old 04-19-22, 09:36 PM
  #16  
Senior Member
 
SalsaShark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eastern Iowa
Posts: 631

Bikes: 2014 Trek Allant drop bar conversion, modified Schwinn MTN commuter, 2015 Trek 520, Soma ES, Salsa Journeyman, 1980 Trek 414

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 178 Post(s)
Liked 355 Times in 166 Posts
I never take a day off, commuting every work day (10-20 miles/day depending on route), all year through all weather conditions. Have been doing this for years. I had one year that I rode 364/365 days, taking a day off to drive to see the total eclipse.
There have been no negative effects on my body, and I always ride through minor injuries and sickness - seems to help the body heal with the heightened cardio activity.
The mental hurdles are the hardest to overcome for most people - but once you straddle that topbar, it is always a good ride!
SalsaShark is offline  
Likes For SalsaShark:
Old 04-20-22, 08:03 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,832
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2452 Post(s)
Liked 433 Times in 315 Posts
When I commuted to warehouse job 9 miles each way I was destroyed after work, but my diet and alcohol intake were bad. Probably could have used breaks then but I quit after like a month. Now I do 7 miles each way and arenít even tired if I donít push hard. Youíll work up to it, sure take a break and listen to your body now, but soon it wonít phase you.

you just donít have the bike specific muscles yet. Biking is very easy on the body, thatís why you have 80 year olds who are still fast
LarrySellerz is offline  
Old 04-21-22, 12:23 PM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Windsor Ontario, Canada
Posts: 522

Bikes: 2018 Giant Sedona

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 175 Post(s)
Liked 115 Times in 94 Posts
Perhaps you're rides are at too high an intensity. It may be a short full intensity ride is more exhausting then much longer medium intensity rides. With the right gears most reasonably fit middle age and youngish seniors should be able to handle longer rides then yours with all but the steepest hills with no more then medium-high effort. The nice thing about hills is the coast down. Perhaps you need lower gears. My lowest gear brings me down to about 6 kph @ 60 rpm.

Also it may take a couple months to get used to a an increase in activity. It might be a good idea to get a complete physical too, Tell the doctor what you have told us. It may be you're exhausted more from work the the bike ride.

Last edited by xroadcharlie; 04-21-22 at 12:27 PM.
xroadcharlie is offline  
Old 04-22-22, 09:33 AM
  #19  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 94

Bikes: All steel... Breadwinner, Ritchey, Soma, VO, etc.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked 36 Times in 25 Posts
9-10 mile round trip for me on my single speed 90s mtb. I used to commute in all weather conditions here in Texas, but I busted up my fenders last year in an accident. I don't see the point of putting more money into this particular commuter, so I've been taking the bus on those rainy days, because wet butt at work isn't fun.

I also like to avoid thunderstorms here, since they can get a bit nerve-racking. Had a lightning hit a house a block down from where I was riding, I'm pretty sure I peed my pants a bit, but couldn't tell since I was completely soaking wet anyways.

I don't often get icy conditions here in this part of Texas, but I can work from home in most icy days.

Getting back to your question, I'm also young and in pretty decent cycling shape. I don't often take breaks because my body is tired. I usually do 40-60 miles on the weekends and often go on 20 mile rides after work. I found that my commutes get easier as I ride more and more. I don't treat my commute as a fun ride, I just treat it like how everyone else treats their non-bike commute: a way to get to work.
Parkyy16 is offline  
Old 04-24-22, 08:05 AM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 29,404

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5181 Post(s)
Liked 3,485 Times in 2,288 Posts
fwiw, the older I get, the more I have to listen to my body. when I was younger, I tortured my body 24/7/365. my Dad always warned me & encouraged me to slow down. he'll be 95 this summer, so maybe he knows something. lately I've been kicked in my butt, for various reasons, currently w/ a fresh gout flare up, in a whole new location in my left foot. so I'm sidelined again & forced to rest, until the steroids kick in & I can go back to torturing my body all over again. doubtful I'll make it to 95 in the same condition as my Dad. check back w/ me in 30+ years

Last edited by rumrunn6; 04-24-22 at 02:36 PM.
rumrunn6 is offline  
Old 04-24-22, 10:18 PM
  #21  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,624

Bikes: Trek 730 (quad), 720 & 830, Bike Friday NWT, Brompton M36R & M6R, Dahon HAT060 & HT060, ...

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 800 Post(s)
Liked 317 Times in 235 Posts
Originally Posted by rumrunn6
doubtful I'll make it to 95 in the same condition as my Dad. check back w/ me in 30+ years
Research seems to show that those who cycle tend to have more luck there .
2_i is online now  
Likes For 2_i:
Old 04-25-22, 03:51 AM
  #22  
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 29,404

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0

Mentioned: 112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5181 Post(s)
Liked 3,485 Times in 2,288 Posts
Originally Posted by 2_i
Research seems to show that those who cycle tend to have more luck there .
thank you. I'll tell my Dad!
rumrunn6 is offline  
Old 04-25-22, 05:34 AM
  #23  
Senior Member
 
work4bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,865
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3573 Post(s)
Liked 933 Times in 705 Posts
Originally Posted by dev_the_dude
Hi all,

I've been riding for a few years, but typically only for a few (~2) miles per day with an occasional 10mi mtb ride on the weekends. I recently moved, and my commute is now ~6mi round trip 5 days/wk plus the usual weekend mtb ride. I noticed after 2 weeks of doing this that I'm physically exhaused, and had to spend most of Sunday sleeping. I'm a young dude, and in ok-ish shape so I didn't think this would be an issue. The area I live is very hilly.

My question- how long is your commute and how often do you take days off? Do you ever worry about over-use injuries? Is it something you get used to over time?

Thanks!
You should NOT be tired after such few miles, as a young man. I'm 57 and do 4x that amount and still work in the yard at the end of the day. I do live in Florida and don't have hills, but we have serious winds, living near the beach, and as luck would have it, it's always a headwind. Headwinds suck....

My longest commute was nearly a 50-mile round trip, when I lived in Virginia, but that's when I was in my 30's, so I got a lot of miles in my legs. You can do a lot more than what you're doing now and as you age you will get that old man strength. I remember first starting out riding and all the pain that came with it, but just work thru it and you'll be surprised how fit you will become.

What made a big difference for me is I took 3-weeks off work and did a 1,500-mile loaded bike tour up the east coast and back down thru the Appalachian mountains. Nearly killed me, but that's what it takes to really develop the body. I would never had been able to do that 50-mile RT commute if I didn't do that loaded tour. I'm so glad I did, but I remember very much the pain, but those are some of my best memories...now that it's over



.
work4bike is offline  
Old 04-26-22, 04:02 PM
  #24  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Everyday now that my bike was stolen. Otherwise, I was constant for 10 years. I took a break for injury last year for about a month. Three months one year where my job had a temp location
toto34 is offline  
Old 04-27-22, 02:25 PM
  #25  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Ogden, Utah
Posts: 813
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 199 Post(s)
Liked 571 Times in 227 Posts
35 mile round trip for me, but it is virtually flat. Not really, gradually sloping downhill to work, gradually sloping uphill going home. But, essentially flat. I work 4-10's and am physically active all day (not a desk job), but find that more than 2x commutes a week is difficult for me early in the season. I also generally avoid rainy/snowy days, and dislike the really cold days. My limit is about 45 degrees. Early in the season (I don't generally ride in the winter - too cold for me) is more difficult, but as others here have said, it gets better the more you go. Funny because when I begin again in the spring I think to myself "How on earth did I do this so much last year"? But then come October I feel significantly stronger.
As a younger dude (I'm 50 this August) I never gave a second thought to pre ride stretching, but now, as a middling-older guy, stretching both pre- and post- ride is essential. Sometimes I'll stretch mid ride as well, if my knee starts being cranky.

So yes, I take a break. Usually November - April (ish). I do like to get out in the winter when the days are mild and dry, just to keep my heart pumping a little bit, but those may be 1-2x a week, MAYBE, and usually only 10-12 miles in length.
Smokinapankake is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.