Solution: mountain bike with aero bars added.

I spent the first 10 of 20 years of bike commuting on a drop bar bike, enjoying it for the suburban miles and tolerating it for the city riding. Then, because I decided I cared more about reliability and safety in city traffic than speed, I switched to a mountain bike.

Finally, I added a set of aero bars to the mountain bike. All the advantages of the toughness and safety of the mountain bike, at roughly 90% of the speed of the drop bar bike. Now that I'm retired, I do most of my miles on an aero-bar-equipped hybrid. There are no disadvantages, except maybe looking weird to other cyclists.

Personally, I can't stand flat bars for any length of time. For the last year or two I've had dirt drops on my commuter set pretty high. I use the drops pretty often.

I rarely weigh-in on threads like this, but here goes: The flat bar with aero clip-ons is a really good idea. Flat bars just plain suck if they are to be used for any length of time outside their mountainbike domain. The aero clip-ons provide an elbow biased fit that completely eliminates any wrist, palm, and nerve derived pain in the forearms, shoulder and neck. This pain happens because the wrists are bent at an unnatural angle and carry a bunch of weight that should be bourn by the riders core. The unnatural angle also kicks out the riders elbows forcing the neck muscles essentially double duty to support the lats & traps so the triceps can hold the riders torso upright.

Don't get me wrong. Flat bars are fantastic for standing and leveraging around a bike for short rides in wildly varying terrain. But for moderate to long-ish distance on flat-ish terrain for medium to long times, the neutral wrist position is the way to go. On road bikes, the drop bar is the most common, however it is used. On a city/utility bike a bar with a lot of sweep like a Soma Sparrow, or a North road, or a touring bar is the better choice. The decision between "road" and "swept back" ought to be determined by the distance and speed intended.

Dutch style utility bikes really top out at about 5-8miles at about 12-14mph. For this, there is no substitute. Swept back bars and upright posture sitting on a seat are the absolute best for this.

For greater distance and speed than the Dutch, road handlebars on a bike that uses a saddle is the solution. The key for either is the neutral hand/wrist position that either shifts the weight back to the saddle for ease of low effort use or the core muscle engagement for performance. Either way the result is the same: To keep the weight off the hands and let the arms fall in a generally straight relaxed line from shoulder to contact point.

Flat bars don't offer any of this, nor are they meant to. Mountainbikes are for mountains. It is unfortunate; the influence mountainbikes have in the American marketplace essentially crowding out the more utilitarian and practical uses that other bikes are better suited. Americans are anything other than realistic when assessing their actual needs. Utility bikes like the English 3 speed are just too humble to appeal broadly to American consumers. (Though this is beginning to change thanks to infrastructure adoption. Practical bike companies like Public, Linus, Pashley, Momentum, Gazzelle, and various e-bikes to cover Americas poor urban planning and excessive car culture derived distances with roadbike like speed at recreational utility effort are gaining in popularity.)

Due to the aspirational "can do all, must do all," nature of American consumers based on "adventure" or "pioneering spirit" or whatever you wish to call it, ill-suited flat bar mountainbikes often get bought based on the idea of recreational activity, dominating mountain trails, or the allure of practicality. But sadly, those bikes often get shoe-horned and force-fit into ordinary utilitarian uses that Dutch bikes or drop bars satisfy better. The truth is most flat bar mountain bikes never even see a dirt path in their entire existence or are rode for more than a dozen miles or so around a campground a couple of times and then get dumped or discarded as uncomfortable or impractical. Then we get discussions about: "Why handlebars with neutral hand positions?" ...If only the OP titled the thread with those words instead.

FWIW: The OP needs a Dutch bike. Every "mountainbike" that is used for utility like commuting or groceries gets turned into a Dutch bike...eventually.

Over the decades I've commuted different distances, on many different types of bike. Bars have been drop, flat, swept. Pros and cons to all. They all get the job done. For me, fun is a part of my commute decisions, and currently I'm finding a drop bar fixie fun. One day I'll tire of it and switch to something else. It comes down to preference, simple as that.

I live in northern Germany less than 250 miles away from the origin of the Dutch bike. A Dutch bike was my first thought when I wanted to try something more comfortable. I tried it for a while and yes, they are comfortable like nothing else but as you said, they also top out at lower speeds. My commute is 18km (11 miles). I don't have the time or energy to push a dutch bike 22 miles every day.

Dutch bikes are awesome for Dutch conditions. Perfectly paved and perfectly flat bike paths, no curbs, only few lights (consistent driving speeds) and the occasional cobblestone. We don't have those kind of conditions here.

What I have are country roads, potholes, different gradients, badly maintained bike paths in the city and strong head winds.

That's a great idea. I hadn't thought of that. I'll try that as soon as I can get my hands on cheap aero bars.

Yeah, exactly, that's my experience as well here in France !
I've riden most of the time with flat bars on mtb terrain. I've had a drop bar bike, but didn't ride it as much. That was untill I began touring !
Then I realised how confortable and practical drop bars are . . .
But it's important to have the right drop bar width, When on the hoods, you shall be at shoulder width.

I am lucky enough I do have trails between home and work, and it's a short enough ride. So sometimes I ride the MTB. And I enjoy it, so I share it here. But that hardly translates to "Americans are stupid because their 'pioneering spirit' makes them buy mountain bikes for commuting." That screed belongs on 1990's Usenet. You can ride any kind of bike anywhere you want. But people have not been buying new mountain bikes for commuting in many years, and the industry has not been pushing them, unless you give it a really broad definition. A mainstream mountain bike today, with its 800mm handlebar, 1200mm wheelbase, dropper post, Maxxis Minions at volleyball pressure, probably rear suspension, and huge price tag, is obviously wildly inappropriate for a city street. The ones with rack and fender holes are only a few entry level models, or misanthrope iconoclast brands we still love to talk about like Surly, Rivendell, etc.

Darth Lefty I didn't say Americans are stupid. That's dumb. But there is a definite disconnect between commuting bikes people think they are buying and the products available and sold by America's largest retailers as "mountain bikes" in the marketplace.

We both know actual mountain bikes and BSO's aren't even related. As evidenced by sales volumes, most of the general population doesn't. Hence my lament about the unfortunate disproportionate displacement of actually useful bikes that are actually good for what people think they are buying them for.

We both agree that actual mountain bikes make for poor commuters. People that buy & ride actual mountain bikes know this. Your commute is short and you are using it as a mountain bike.

Do you have any better theory about why so many adventure themed bikes are bought, hardly used and subsequently discarded in short order by Americans?

What is it about the adventure theme that makes an item uniquely attractive? Can you explain the market domination in America these "bikes" have? Surely Wal-Mart, Target and Pacific Cycles that make & sell the most of bicycles sold in America have tapped into something. It's certainly not because they are useful, capable or offer a good value.

I did a century on a rigid mtb once. Ezpz century, riding and chatting with a buddy the whole way. It was over before we knew it. The only Dutchifucation was running 1 1/4" slicks. No pain, just a day of easy miles.

Another time I did a two-nighter riding an old Schwinn 3 speed with swept bars. Day 2 was 90 miles. Panniers, tent, sleeping bag, food. Roads were mostly chip seal. Again, not an ordeal, just a few days on a bike.

At Paris Brest Paris, a 1200km 90 hour ride, you'll see every kind of bike known to humanity, and a few home constructs nobody has ever seen. Any kind of handlebar made will be there. You'll see a dude on a pure race bike sporting an ill advised 20 lb backpack, and another dude on a flat bar fixie carrying nothing but a light rain jacket.

For a nine mile commute, ride whatever makes you want to get up in the morning.

The only reason I use Bull Horns is because I can no longer get in the Drops... Ha

Wind, quite simply. The wind is rotten around here. It lets you drop down and get a little lower. Save power and energy.

Shimano did a bullhorn brifters in a flat bar road groupset called Metrea a few years ago. I really crushed on the styling even though it wasn't quite as nice as the concept that they had shown a year earlier. Some things that had been shapes became graphics, and the concept color was navy while the final product was gloss black. The crankset looked like a spaceship (similar to contemporary DA) and the RD looked nice too. They never marketed it in the States, and I never got a bike that it would look good on to bother collecting via import. But still I remember it fondly.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5855fc307b.png

[MENTION=413859]base2[/MENTION] I think most people don't buy bikes for commuting but for recreation. And so having a do-it-all bike is fine, and it will be fine for occasional commuting. I also know that the largest portion by far of Walmart bikes are kid bikes that are going to last a couple years of occasional use, not adult bikes anyone intends to use daily. So in that light the way you want people to use bikes is coloring your facts. People who want good bikes optimized for a task have no particular barriers to getting them

edit - had first ended with "except maybe the monopoly pricing in the USA" but that's really more for parts. Complete bikes seem really competitive again now that the covid boom is past

I am still trying to wrap my head around seeing ElliptiGos on PBP. Over 8 years ago. It's so easy for us to get into this "X bike is best for Y task" thinking when it's really hogwash.

I’m flexible and use the same torso @45-30° & knees bent pose on bike that I use surfing, skiing, skateboarding- my hands are naturally hanging around the height of my knees and about a foot out. Perfect for classic flatbottom drops on a large-for-me frameset, stem slammed. When I’m taking a break from riding and just sitting upright for a sec, the tops of the drops are kinda uselessly far away.

Modern Vestigial Drops I have to treat as Bullhorns with little bonus underhooks. I don’t like them on bikes that weren’t designed for them.

With any part of the bar near level with the saddle it’s way too in-my-face and I get a little claustrophobic. I accidentally solved this by, for a different purpose, grabbing a small road frame and putting a long seatpost and a long & low stem holding wide MTB/cruisey Dimension Arc bars on. I’ll be trying VO Milan bars with a Nitto Jag drop stem so that when I’m in full headwind-cutting/rain-ducking tuck my forearms can be nicely V’d and hands close to the stem but low.

I really haven’t ridden my Drop Bar bikes much the past two years because of this little mod’ed flatbar road bike.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...edc2d6f64.jpeg

I love drop bars for commuting. It gives me multiple hand positions for climbing or coasting. And I find it easier on the back too.

For only the second time in 5 years I'm missing the drop bars of my old bike.
The reason: A low hanging tree branch over the sidewalk on Wilke road on the Arlington Heights/Rolling Meadows border near Kirchoff that makes me have to duck. It was easier to duck such things when I could simply grab the lower handlebars.
Funny now that I think about it the first time I missed the drop bars was the same reason on the same street a few years back, but about a mile and a half south a little north of Portillo's. At least until they trimmed that tree in the fall.

Does this mean I probably made the right choice in getting swept bars since I almost never used the lower bars unless I was ducking a low-hanging branch or the like?
99% of the time I'm very happy with the handlebars on the new bike and the posture they require.

That's pretty much what I found too using high swept back Nitto Albatross bars, inefficient and an exercise in futility :lol:. With drop bars well below the saddle, hark ! The position feels normal, to be leaning forward-low while pedalling. Not to mention the hand positions and ergonomics of them. Flat bars were the very worst thing I ever experienced. They came with my '83 Stumpjumper and I never did get used to them. In hindsight I wish I had tried some drop bars on it, but sold it instead.

Whether you're riding for commuting, sport or leisure ride whatever works for you from your own actual riding experiences, not what someone claims is "good for you". WTF does that even mean ? I never met a "health expert" that even had a clue what "health" actually meant because if they did they would promptly retire their title. Mini-rant over.....

I always use road bike with drop bar for regular road training or for commuting. I do commuting like a "sport version" of commuting, like training exercise. You can change position of your hands, change position of your body, etc.