The OP's daughter has already chosen, but I hope he won't mind if I continue the discussion on a tangent.

I have a Topeak MTX trunk bag, the one with the fold-down panniers. I just love it, but sometimes, it's a bit small. (each side will hold just a 5 qt. engine oil jug)

I'm THINKING about buying a set of panniers, but they would only get occasional use, so I definitely can't justify new Ortleib. Amazon has a few highly-reviewed brands for 1/3 the price, so I'm thinking of going that way.

I could also just wear my big backpack for the occasional larger grocery run.

If it's for shopping, Banjo Brothers seems to be a good budget option. I haven't used them myself, I have discontinued and now hard to find bucket panniers.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ef734724bf.jpg

For occasional use there is no need to spend gobs of money. Take a look at RockBros Waterproof Panniers.

But, I don't trust anyone's waterproof claims, and especially a low-price budget model. What you would need to do is buy a box of trash compactor bags, these are a lot more heavy duty than any trash bag, and they're white so you can see inside easier, then simply put the bag inside the pannier, put your stuff into the bag, roll the top of the compactor trash bad tightly, then close your pannier. I have a pair of Axiom Seymour Oceanweave 45, those were on the higher end of the price scale, but even with those I use the compactor bags.

Using a trash bag for a liner also prevents something spilling inside that could ruin the interior of the pannier.

The other thing is if you have something you want to make sure it doesn't get wet, put it in a ziplock bag, again, rain may not get in, but something inside leaking could ruin something else.

I looked at a couple decent quality ones on Amazon, each is rated 4.5* over lots of user reviews.

• HUNTVP 27L waterproof, $110 / pair
  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TB8CVM2...v_ov_lig_dp_it
• Rockbros 27L waterproof, $125/pr:
  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07R527WNN...v_ov_lig_dp_it

Then I decided: "What if Ortlieb used cost about the same as those new?" and looked on Amazon. Turns out that one can get NEW Ortlieb for just a bit more. I got a set of red Back Roller City 40L for $135:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/156638429370

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b4dd7171e0.jpg
Stock photo; can't wait to fill these with groceries!


I did look at some American-made ones, but they were either in a bunch of fruity colors or not waterproof and are at least $150 ea.

Those garbage can style ones, Specialized still makes them to fit their electric cargo bikes. Very practical. They inspired a buddy of mine m@Robertson to build his own. Matt, if you see this, can you put up a link to your blog post or the thread over on ebikesforum showing how you did it? Some folks here might be interested.

He started with office trash cans. It looked like it just takes low cost easily-attainable hardware and a few hours in the garage.

I found m@Robertson's trash can pannier build project blog:

https://talesontwowheels.com/2023/01...-part-1-parts/

Very handy! I've seen people do something similar with 5 gallon buckets but I do wonder how they hold up over time.

Traditional kitty litter buckets are free with lids but probably smaller.

I do have to wonder about the guy who buys the premium cargo e-bakfiets, and then objects to a few hundred for panniers. Clicking around I find he's built it as a 2wd e-bike! Maybe he hasn't got any money left

Well, having known him for a year or two on ebikesforum, I can tell you he started by building eBikes out of muggle bikes. Learned a lot and is keen to help others.

I suspect he found the basic bike worth the money, but not paying hundreds of dollars for Specialized-branded trash cans. Kind of like declining the expensive factory "cargo organizer" option on your car, in favor of something aftermarket for a fraction of the price. If one doesn't find value in the branding or construction, one sometimes goes the DIY route.

Poke around on his site, he's quite the eBike handyman and shares his knowledge even when it means a ton of extra typing.

Muggle bikes. I like that term. Some call them analog bikes, but that's not quite right. Guitarists call them acoustic bikes. Cute but also just a little silly. Maybe I'll start saying muggle bikes, even though I'm not a Harry Potter fan.

I call them cake-powered bikes. :) Muggle's pretty good.

I like 'muggle bike' because it suggests that they "don't have the magic". Kind of a good-natured jab.
I like 'cake-powered' too.
'Acoustic bike' is catching on pretty widely, but I get tired of explaining it.

There's "analog" too.

I once had a pretty acrimonious debate at work about using the word "analog" (adj) in the sense of not digital vs "analogue" (noun) for a thing that is analogous. They are each permissible alternate spellings of the other, but not customary

I use the classic Ortlieb front roller for the rear rack. They are very reliable, waterproof,easy to take on/off.And IF you Need a spare part Ortlieb is one of the few who can give you spare part for your bag.

I'm a fan of two wheel gear panniers but I was always afraid of people taking it. Thankfully it was for my commute to work and they had a cage where I could lock my bike.

Never trust any cage or anything like that, where other people have access. Theft does happen from those places so lock it up just as you would on the street and maybe better because anyone can gain access as someone could walk up and say oh man I left my key up in the office can you help me get in or they could already be in cahoots or just break in and guards generally don't care and even on places like Military bases and facilities things get stolen. If it can easily come off the bike without a tool take it with you or lock it really well.

That's a good point. I was a little careless perhaps as the office security guard should be on top alert and there was video cameras. But true, it could happen anywhere

Video cameras will show you someone stealing your stuff but won't generally prevent them and some security guards are on the ball but they cannot see everything or notice everything and some might not really notice someone else is taking your stuff because they may not actually know it is yours or care. It is just too risky.

I'm always afraid of panniers throwing off the balance of the bike. I may be wrong.

Yep, You're wrong, and you just resurrected and old thread.

The only time panniers throw the balance off is when I have only one and overload it. No problems otherwise.

Now trunk bags and baskets on the rear, not so much fun, at least for me. IME if I put a substantial amount of weight (over 5 lbs.) above the rear wheel it causes the back end to wag side-to-side. YMMV, of course; trunk bags and baskets are very popular, just not for me.

A pannier on one side of the rear rack does change the balance but hardly enough to notice. You might notice you need to lean a little against it when hands-off peeling your breakfast banana. I have not tried panniers in the front but imagine they might be a little more challenging. I like rear racks but somehow don't presently have a bike with one. For my commute as it is now, since they gave us all big laptops, I carry the laptop backpack.

I've also gotten tank-slapper with a trunk bag. Both bikes that did it were classic steel road bikes. A MTB from circa Y2K, on which I also used the same bag, had no such behavior.

It's ok. Traffic on this subforum feels welcome.

I understand. I do get a little annoyed at times by random comments by newbies that really do not address the question posed by an OP. They often reek of bots.

Thanks for your warm welcome. I made no intention of making a point. I was simply asking if it does indeed a make a difference in balance. Sorry to have annoyed you.

Not a problem, and seriously, welcome to the forum. There is however, an accepted etiquette to forums in general, and often new users don't understand them. Sorry to have jumped on you. One forum I frequent has been getting newbie posts a lot lately, with comments such as yours, always on older threads. The majority of them have come from AI bots. We generally ask them to reply with some sort of information that would prove they are real, and if not, they are deleted and blocked.

Generally speaking, if you have a question about something, start a new thread. You will get more advice.

Oh, and in response to an old thread being resurrected...



https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...869fbb064d.jpg

For years, I'd bring dress shoes to work at the beginning of the week, leave them there for a few days, and take them home at the end of the week. Call it close to 15 years of commuting, with two panniers (one for clothes, coffee, and lunch, the other for shoes) somewhere between a quarter and a half of all commute rides. The only times I noticed the second pannier were the times I had a stiff (20 mph or better) headwind. The rest of the time, I never noticed how many bags I was carrying after I started rolling.

Of course, you are totally wrong, people have been riding bikes for over 100 years with panniers all over the world and no one worried about balance.

This guy rode around the world like this:

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.QKZX3n...9&pid=1.7&rm=3

This is an oddity, check out the size of the bike, it's one of those suitcase bikes, and he also traveled around the world on this thing:
https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.iSgj8e...9&pid=1.7&rm=3

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.Vehw_B...pr=1.9&pid=1.7

Speaking of balance issues, try riding these:
https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.9vQ2Vx...pr=1.9&pid=1.7

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.XX2zwH...pr=1.9&pid=1.7

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.RW69lx...pr=1.9&pid=1.7

I commuted with front panniers for a while. With front panniers, they should be balanced. It's not necessary for them to be precisely balanced, but if they are substantially unbalanced, it takes a notable amount of work to ride. With rear panniers, it's not a concern for me at all.

Same for me rear panniers balanced seems better but I have totally rode with just on pannier of a few recreational rides. I wanted to carry thing but did not need both panniers. & Ortlieb is the only way to go in my opinion.