camy

First, I appologize to any I may have offended, especially for the "getting in miles" comment.

My point to this post was to get opinions as to whether or not the attire/accessories affect how the cars treat you? I'm trying to get the most data that will make my future commutes as safe as possible.

Wheter you want to believe it or not, perception from drivers does impact how you are treated.

*I* don't care what you wear, how much money you have, or what kind of bike you ride. My comment about the cyclist during rush hour on a main road is a situation I see about once a week where there is a cyclist (although it doesn't matter if they are commuting, getting in their miles, on a motorcycle or in an auto) traveling on a 2 lane divided street where traffic is flowing at 50 mph and is practically bumper to bumper. Just behind the cyclist, many cars are panic braking when the car in front of them switches lanes revealing a vehicle (cyclist) going 20mph. This is not safe for anyone involved. Also, in this area, there are other smaller, much less busy parallel streets which could be used without adding much distance or time.

angel

well here i am again. ghetto bike girl with an opinion. it doesn't matter what you look like, at least to me. wear what you want! i know some people who get out in cycling attaire to go to work and change at work. i know people who get a work out and just go 3 miles to work on a beater bike with work clothes(but they are getting their morning work out in on the way to work). i think it doesn't matter what you wear. just so you like it and that could be for whatever reason you like it for. it could be the clothes are comfortable, cost effective, efficant, protects you from the weather, you like them, or you just think you look good in spandex or work trousers and leather work shoes.

i have chose for many years to just ride a bike and not put on bike gear so to speak. just roll my 5 to 16 miles to work with my work clothes on. why? for me it is a bother to change and i don't think i should have too. then again in the winter a sports jacket, mitten, hat, face mask is great to protect myself from the elements.

i say either is fine and in my very mind either of your options is fine and neither of them are better or worse.

Dchiefransom

I believe that will make them possibly wonder a bit about biking, but just a little bit. In a couple of miles of stop-n-go traffic, what REALLY annoys them is that they know they WON"T be passing you again.

Lone Prairie

If this is true for the cyclist then it is also true for the drivers. Why don't some of the drivers re-route?

Best,
e.

Treespeed

It has nothing to do with attire and everything to do with attitude and skill. As far as staying on the side roads you are just wrong. Please do everyone a favor and do a search on Vehicular Cycling. You need a to worry a little more about educating yourself and a little less about the fashion sense.

TexasGuy

Bwuahah. I do that alot when Im chasing down towards Helotes. This one lady in the passenger kept looking back to see how long it would take me to pass them while they were waiting for the light to change and traffic to start moving Can be great motivation

djgonzo007

Totally agree. Further, you criticizing someone else for when they choose to ride is also wrong. Have you ever thought that maybe that is the person's only time they have available to ride? Why not be positive and think, "hey, more power to that guy for cycling."?

Anyways, for your study I wear cycling attire. I don't sport a "full team kit" but I wear lycra shorts and a Jersey (given to my by my LBS). I also carry a backpack and ride a decent road bike. I wear the clothes for comfort and change at work. I ride my road bike because it's all I have at this time (although I am thinking about building a fixie).

Like the post above stated I think one's attitude, or believing that one belong's on the road and skill has the biggest impression on how motorists react to a cyclist. I'd think that dressing in cycling attire may give a motorist the impression that the cyclist is more serious or familiar with cycling. I know that really isn't true but we're dealing with people who's nature is to make broad generalizations.

camy

Interesting, I did a Google on "Vehicular Cycling" and it pointed me to:
Vehicular Cycling
From here, I see a link referenced to "learn more": How To Ride In Traffic (This is the only link I looked at as the title seemed most relevant).
Looking there:

and


Thanks for the search tip. I am trying to educate myself and have learned a ton from reading and searching posts here.

The philosophy I'm trying to go by is that I'll select my roads and time such that I will not impede the normal flow of traffic.

Again, my qustion about the attire is not my low self esteem worrying what everyone else thinks about me, it's about whether or not an auto driver's perception of me (and how they in turn treat me) changes based on my attire. It is purely from a safety standpoint.



edit: I found that my local library has "Effective Cycling" by John Forester. Would this be a good read?

JohnBrooking

Man, you people are being pretty harsh today. Struck a nerve, did he?

In Chris' defense, his title is still "newbie", and he did begin by saying that this line of thought was instigated by a comment someone else made to him. So can't we tone down the defensiveness?

Although the replies here have mostly focussed on Chris' biases, the original question was about whether these are the motorists' biases, as well as those of the other person who made the comment to Chris. I guess these comments could be construed as answers to that person's questions, if Chris can survive being shot for being the messenger.

BTW, Chris: Effective Cycling is another big Can O' Worms here. Search for that in the topic threads in Advocacy & Safety for lots of discussion of it. I haven't read the book (although I plan to at some point), but my impression from the comments I've read is that there is a lot of good advice in there, along with some allegedly outdated or just plain opinionated statements, stated with a fair amount of attitude. But the same people will sometimes admit that it's a good read for the good parts, and ignore the rest, so it's probably worth a look. Especially since it is considered the book that started the Vehicular Cycling school (so I've heard).

Good luck and ride safely!

jnbacon

As to whether clothing makes a difference: no. I've ridden in baggy shorts and t-shirt, lycra, and long pants and collared shirt: The treatment I've gotten is usual and random - some good, some bad, no connection to clothing.

As to riding on a busy street: sure, if I need to. I'll usually make a different choice if there is a better bike-riding street, but I won't do it for the car driver's sakes. If the alternative street is less crowded but not good for bike riding, I'll almost always take the busier, better biking street.

An example. In Phoenix, the main street is Central Ave: three lanes each direction, with a center turn lane. Running parallel to it is the Sonoran Bikeway, a badly planned patchwork of a bike route that goes along two-lane roads. The bikeway is a pain: lights are slow to change because it is a secondary route; there are no lights at some crossings; it isn't continuous in places. Going up Central avoids all these problems, though it means I must inconvenience some drivers. My choice? Central, every time, and I would almost always suggest it over the bikeway to any rider.

So, cut those riders some slack. You live in sprawl, and this one of the consequences of that sprawl.

Treespeed

That would be a great start. You can also look up threads by a forum member named, "Helmet Head".

I see where you are coming from with avoiding heavy traffic lanes and what to wear. The most important thing would be to be visible and comfortable.

Good Luck.

slvoid

I usually get a lot of room from drivers and everything. I'm usually wearing shorts, neon jersey, and my neon orange bag.
But if I'm on my mtb, regular shorts, t-shirt, I get almost no room...

truman

I'm starting to notice that, if I wear something obviously planned to increase visibility, I actually get a little more room on the road. They may SEE me, when I'm riding in dirt colored clothes, but when I'm wearing a blaze orange reflective triangle on my backpack, it reminds them that they might need to do something out of the ordinary, in the next few moments.

7rider

I don't care what someone's riding - I love the variety I see on my commute. More power to anyone who's on any type of HPV (human powered vehicle).

noisebeam

This is exactly my experience in riding in phx-chandler-mesa-tempe metro area. If ya want to get anywhere you gotta ride on the busy multilane arterial roads. The mish-mash of 'bike-ways and routes' that go within each mile block are a joke for a transportational cyclists (come to think of it for recreational riders who go for more that 2mi also)

More detail... In fact these mid block streets are intentionally designed to be a pain for vehicles to drive thru and between to minimize thru traffic, this means by design that if a road leaves a residential block to cross an arterial, there is not a road on the other side, so you gotta ride down the aterial and make turn, navigate the next set of residential streets (which curve, have dead ends, T's, and lots of stop signs, but not single straight thru way- you can get lost in them). I too can ride home 80% of the way on residential streets, but it adds about 25 intersections, involves lots of tid-bits of riding on aterials for a few hundred yards at a time and takes about 10min longer over a 9mi route. I actually find all the intersections, etc. to be more of a hazard than the fast arterial traffic.

Al

Daily Commute

Wear what you need to be seen, but other than that, ride however you are most comfortable. If that means full Team Discovery gear, fine. If that means blue jeans and a sweatshirt, fine.

Gus Riley

I have no problems with a T-Shirt or swear shirt, except that they have no pockets. My jerseys do, and I use them for my wallet, banana and power bar.

Gus Riley

Again, when I commuted I tried to map out a route that maximized all the side roads. In doing this it made much of my ride more enjoyable and at the same time added some extra distance to it. That was a good thing in my opinion.

By all means I recommend doing the same thing with your commute.

Cyclaholic

The only comment i have is that this is the most dimwitted post I've seen in the commuting forum for a very long time.

Try looking like yourself.... sheesh

slvoid

I gotta admit, I'm the only one that agrees with this guy.
I commute daily and ride a lot on weekends. I get 10x more respect and less honking on the road if I'm wearing my neon orange jersey, neon orange messenger bag, have my NR tail light plus my helmet blinker going. I get a bit of crap if I'm wearing my baggy stuff (honestly I've tried to remember these things) and if I'm out on my mtb tooling around, cars are honking at me and brushing me aside left and right.

Of course I live in NYC, out the the suburbs, they probably don't give a damn what you're riding or what you look like, you're gonna get run over as long as you have 2 wheels.

jur

Apparently you are a thin-skinned lot.

I thought the OP and the other ones were very courteous and sensible.

Going by my own experience, wearing the brightest duds gets the maximum room. Except for the dickhead this morning who would have actually struck me had I not glanced back at that moment and seen this guy hugging the kerb, so I took evasive action.

caloso

Well, look it at this way: it's a nice break from the shaving threads.

slvoid

Wait, so should I shave for my commute or not?

jur

Only if you'll get more room from cagers.

I think you'll get less room. Big hairy legs might look like they need more room.

chroot

I commute in full lycra (plain, no team logos) on a fairly high-end road bike, with my Chrome messenger bag (mmm Chrome). I try to carry as light a load as possible, but I'm almost always carrying a laptop and some clothes.

I'm commuting. I'm training. I'm pushing myself. I'm getting my miles in. I'm saving the planet. I'm enjoying not having to sit in traffic. I'm having fun. All at the same time.

I don't so much ask for respect from motorists; I demand it. If I want a lane, I take it (with proper signalling, of course). I would act the same way in any clothing on any bike, but my clothing and bike help greatly. I can accelerate nearly as fast as cars in city traffic, and I can hit 30 mph for short periods when traffic demands it. I would not be nearly as agile on another kind of bike, or even in different clothing.

Hopefully my messenger bag will identify me as a "commuter:" I sure would hate for someone to confuse me for a cyclist or, worse, a fellow human being. :shudder:

- Warren