Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Commuting
Reload this Page >

You won't believe this.....

Notices
Commuting Bicycle commuting is easier than you think, before you know it, you'll be hooked. Learn the tips, hints, equipment, safety requirements for safely riding your bike to work.

You won't believe this.....

Old 09-12-05, 06:53 PM
  #1  
Dougmt
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Dougmt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Middle of Montana
Posts: 467

Bikes: 1996 Specialized Stumpjumper

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You won't believe this.....

OK, I want to preface this with a "I know you won't believe this" because we just had a somewhat heated debate on the use of pepper spray on dogs.
I bear sprayed a pit bull about 1/2 an hour ago.
I was approaching a down-hill and saw a white colored pit bull off to the right hand side. He was headed towards an open field and I thought "good dog... keep going that way." Well he didn't. He crossed about 50 yards in front of me and was now on the right hand side of the road walking away from me. Well cars are approaching and the dog is now in something of a narrow ravine and he's skirting the guard railing. I got the bear spray ready in my gloved right hand and slowly approached yelling "get out of here!" The dog saw me and started to approach. Now were doing about 12 MPH and the dog is nearly alongside me looking like most pit bulls do when they are chasing something.... I give him a VERY short burst of spray and he stopped like he hit a brick wall. I aimed the spray slightly higherr and in front of him and he was about 15-20 feet away. I slowed way down to make sure the dog wasn't totally incapicated and wriggling in the road way and he was OK. He was huffing and and pawing at his face but he was off the road and heading towards a trailer court. A direct spray in his face would have been cruel and unecessary.
D
Dougmt is offline  
Old 09-12-05, 07:00 PM
  #2  
RT
The Weird Beard
 
RT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: COS
Posts: 8,554
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I know I'm going to catch hell for this, but as far as I'm concerned, potentially dangerous dogs of any breed can take an entire can in the face. No room for 'em in my world. I was chased by two rogue rottweilers about a month ago, and thank God I was on a flat and in the right gear. I saw them about even with me as I cornered at a green light going about 20 mph - they caught my eye and decided it might be a fun chase. If I were near a hill, my only defense would've been to stop and whack 'em with my pump, which would have been bad. Very bad. If these dogs were on a leash (and somewhere near their owner), I have no problem.
RT is offline  
Old 09-12-05, 07:13 PM
  #3  
PhattTyre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 707
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Spray on, man. There are leash laws for a reason. It's a little mean, but dogs are tough, they get over it way faster than you would get over a dog bite.
PhattTyre is offline  
Old 09-12-05, 08:04 PM
  #4  
dfw
Stercus accidit
 
dfw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth
Posts: 686

Bikes: Trek Pilot 2.1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I used to be somewhat tolerant of dogs roaming free, but it really torques me off these days. Sometimes dogs get out and this is understandable, but there's also a lot of people that just don't have any respect for other people, their own dogs, or themselves for that matter. If you ever take the time to read the statistics on dog bites, it's really suprising at how often it happens and most of the victims are children. I feel the punishment should fit the crime. An owner who lets his dog roam free should be spanked.
dfw is offline  
Old 09-12-05, 08:05 PM
  #5  
chephy
Two H's!!! TWO!!!!!
 
chephy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 4,263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 2 Posts
I agree with Dougmt. It's not the dog's fault that their owners let them run around like this. And even the milder spraying is going to teach them a lesson about chasing bikers, so it will be a much less dangerous dog from now on.

I don't understand why some people on these forums seem to almost get some sort of pleasure talking about how they'd just love to pepper-spray vicious dogs. I am a biker myself, you know, and I've been chased by very nasty-looking dogs and by no means enjoyed it (in fact, it scares the hell out of me). Moreover, when I was around twelve I got actually attacked and bitten by a large dog - still have a scar on my left arm. But I still don't see the need for cruelty when milder measures will suffice (and not only for saving your ass but for actually turning the dog off bike chases)..... Shame on you, people.
chephy is offline  
Old 09-12-05, 08:08 PM
  #6  
chephy
Two H's!!! TWO!!!!!
 
chephy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 4,263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by dfw
An owner who lets his dog roam free should be spanked.
Well, actually if the area is not densely-populated and the dog is well-behaved, I see no problem with this. Otherwise, yes, the owner should be spanked or pepper-sprayed or something.
chephy is offline  
Old 09-12-05, 08:21 PM
  #7  
notfred
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Personally, ifa dog is chasing oyu with the intent to latch itself onto you and tear you into little peices. I don't care if you kill it, let alone pepper spray it. People die when getting mauled by pitbulls, I think self-defense is perfectly ok.
notfred is offline  
Old 09-12-05, 08:38 PM
  #8  
jharte
Long Live Long Rides
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: KCMO
Posts: 718

Bikes: 1988 Specialized Rockhopper Comp, converted for touring/commuting. 1984 Raleigh Team USA road bike.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have carried Halt (velco to the down tube) for many years. Fortunately I've only had to use it a couple of times. I always try to do the same thing Dougmt did...yell and speed up!

However, I do have a 5 foot rule. If a dog comes within 5 feet and is chasing me, he gets it.

I like dogs. Big dogs and little dogs. I like dogs on leashes and in fenced yards. I like owners who pay attention to their dogs and follow the leash law.

I also like riding my bike and running. If a dog is wondering loose, it's owner obviously doesn't care about it. In that case, it's war. And I will win.
jharte is offline  
Old 09-13-05, 09:22 AM
  #9  
sydney_b
it's my road too, dangit
 
sydney_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: nebraska
Posts: 216

Bikes: early 90's marin, 1969 schwinn collegiate, waterford, bridgestone rb1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'm with PhattTyre on this one. There are too many big dogs who might even be nice at home, who turn into maulers when roaming and taking up the chase. Hopefully, your use of pepper spray turns this dog off cyclists, but I might not have been so generous. They'll recover and if they don't, I'm not sure I care. Pit bulls, rots and whatnot ought NOT be roaming w/o a stout leash and handler. EVER.
sydney_b is offline  
Old 09-13-05, 10:05 AM
  #10  
jeff-o
Recumbent Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Posts: 2,991

Bikes: Rebel Cycles Trike, Trek 7500FX

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Pitbulls are banned where I live, and leashes are mandatory. Just this morning I had a white dog (don't know the breed) that tried to get me, but he was securely leashed. He never would have caught me anyhow, I was right at the top of a long downhill that I can easily reach 45 km/h if I need to...
jeff-o is offline  
Old 09-13-05, 10:13 AM
  #11  
craigery
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 327

Bikes: Trek 2000

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If someone on here gives you crap for spraying a dog that is potentially dangerous then they have probably never been in that kind of situation. I live in a "not-so-nice" neighborhood with a lot of pits. I have almost been attacked twice while mowing my yard. Ever since then, I carry a pistol on me when I'm outside. I'll probably get flamed for this but if I get attack by a pit, its not going to last long. That being sad, I'm not going to shoot until it actually does something.
craigery is offline  
Old 09-13-05, 10:30 AM
  #12  
EricDJ
Airborne Titanium
 
EricDJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 952

Bikes: Airborne Ti Upright, Raleigh M-20 beater, Peugeot Folding

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Good job on those of you who don't blame the Stafordshire Terriers, but blame the owner. I thought bad things about them until I got one and learned how loving they are. sadly people get them with the intention of having a guard dog. A well loved Staffordshire will protect protect its owner during times of need. My 2 have changed the entire neighborhoods opinion of them.

Places that ban a breed suck, they need to deal with other things and leave this crap alone. I'll be pleased when lawsuits pop up from this. Here in part of LA, there was an area that banned things like clipping ears, tails and removing cat claws. Lawsuits are popping up over it. I am a responsible "pit bull" owner (not a correct breed term, Its a Staff) and I don't like what the news portrays them as. Spend time with one and you can see how happy and loving the breed is.

Do a search online and see who all has owned them and things the breed has done, such as in war time. Would Helen Keller really have owned one if they were bad?
EricDJ is offline  
Old 09-13-05, 10:37 AM
  #13  
jeff-o
Recumbent Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Posts: 2,991

Bikes: Rebel Cycles Trike, Trek 7500FX

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Unfortunately, it's easier to ban a breed of dogs known for attacking people, than it is to regulate the owners. It's like taking a sharp knife out of the hands of a toddler....
jeff-o is offline  
Old 09-13-05, 11:06 AM
  #14  
Cadd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,452
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It's the owner's fault. I live in Brooklyn and I see all sorts of pitbulls. Pitbulls that are super aggressive/protective and then, there are pitbulls who are super friendly, heeling next to its master without a leash.

It's all about the training and disicpline that they either had or did not have.

Question for DougMT: You were 150ft away from the dog when you first spotted it....why didn't you just come to a complete stop? If I see a pit, I would definitely stop in my tracks and see what he'll do. Maybe he would have kept on going and left you alone.

What you did was dangerous....what if your spray somehow got picked up by the wind and you get a little whiff of it? You'll be on the ground choking. Trust me, dogs are tough! They can take A LOT of pain and they heal much quickly than humans.
Cadd is offline  
Old 09-13-05, 01:11 PM
  #15  
chephy
Two H's!!! TWO!!!!!
 
chephy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 4,263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Of course it's all the owners' fault. When you "declare a war", you declare a war on the owner, but the innocent dog suffers. I am not saying you should just sit there and get teared into little pieces, but if you can easily avoid killing and injuring the dog, you should, otherwise you are a f@cking miserable *****head and I'll pepper spray you next time I see you (I don't care if I get banned for this, people who are unnecessarily cruel to animals should not even be alive).

For the record, I repeat that I have been chased by mean dogs with big teeth and was attacked and bitten as a kid by a dog that weighed about as much as I did at the time, if not more. So don't give me no "Oh, you don't know what it's like" bull****.


Originally Posted by sydney_b
Hopefully, your use of pepper spray turns this dog off cyclists, but I might not have been so generous.
For God's sake, splashing them with WATER usually teaches them not to do this, as my anecdotal evidence reveals. And pepper spray is much less pleasant, so will have a far greater educational effect.


Originally Posted by sydney_b
They'll recover and if they don't, I'm not sure I care. Pit bulls, rots and whatnot ought NOT be roaming w/o a stout leash and handler. EVER.
Let's see how you like this statement instead: "If a toddler runs into the street, I just run over him. He'll recover, and if not, I'm not sure I care. Little kids aren't supposed to be roaming the streets by themselves EVER." Of course agressive dogs shouldn't be out there. But just like with the toddler, it's not their fault they are there, and it's not THEY who should take the punishment.
chephy is offline  
Old 09-13-05, 01:26 PM
  #16  
tkiisel
The King of Bonk
 
tkiisel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SLC, Ut
Posts: 32

Bikes: Specialized S-Works Hardtail, Cannondale Criterium, Diamondback Assent DX (My Commuter)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Good biker... bad dog.
tkiisel is offline  
Old 09-13-05, 02:15 PM
  #17  
RT
The Weird Beard
 
RT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: COS
Posts: 8,554
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by chephy
Let's see how you like this statement instead: "If a toddler runs into the street, I just run over him. He'll recover, and if not, I'm not sure I care. Little kids aren't supposed to be roaming the streets by themselves EVER." Of course agressive dogs shouldn't be out there. But just like with the toddler, it's not their fault they are there, and it's not THEY who should take the punishment.
I thought I might stay out of this one as most are on my side, but now that you have completely gone off the deep end, valuing the life of a dog over that of a child, I must chime in.

Next time I resist the urge to spray two aggressive rottweilers, and they take me down and maul me, I'll send you the hospital/funeral bill. Get a grip, man. Without getting into relgion and philosophy, we're all God's creatures, and dammit, man is at the top of the food chain for a reason. No angry dog gets my consideration.

Over and OUT.

Last edited by RT; 09-13-05 at 03:05 PM.
RT is offline  
Old 09-13-05, 02:28 PM
  #18  
notfred
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by chephy
Let's see how you like this statement instead: "If a toddler runs into the street, I just run over him. He'll recover, and if not, I'm not sure I care. Little kids aren't supposed to be roaming the streets by themselves EVER." Of course agressive dogs shouldn't be out there. But just like with the toddler, it's not their fault they are there, and it's not THEY who should take the punishment.
You're an [removed by moderator] if you think a toddler standing in the street is as dangerous as a dog that thinks you're prey and is trying to catch you and eat you.

People aren't spraying dogs with pepper spray for being in the street, they're spraying them becaused they are being ATTACKED BY THE DOG.

Do you not understand how that is 100% completely different from spraying a dog just for being there?
notfred is offline  
Old 09-13-05, 03:33 PM
  #19  
kc9eog
Senior Member
 
kc9eog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: decatur, illinois
Posts: 93

Bikes: Trek 1.1, Electra Ticino 7D

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Why does everyone assume that dogs chase us to catch and destroy us? The vast majority of dogs are only looking to run alongside us out of boredom; they are actually the ones in danger, what with playing out in the road.
kc9eog is offline  
Old 09-13-05, 05:26 PM
  #20  
cyclingindallas
slowly pedalling faster
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas (Oak Cliff), TX
Posts: 12

Bikes: Raleigh Grand Prix '05

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
How can you tell if they want to play? The ones that have chased me made fairly menacing sounds. Were they just playing?
cyclingindallas is offline  
Old 09-13-05, 07:26 PM
  #21  
watchman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 262

Bikes: 2001 Litespeed Vortex - Shimano Ultegra, Jamis Dakar XC- Shimano XT, Diamond Back Axis TT- rigid with drop bars and bar end shifters

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It is pretty easy to tell if they are playing or want to attack you, take a good look at teh body language before they get too close. Hackles standing up is bad, ears laid back when not running is bad, position of head in relation to body as they are coming close to you etc.. What i have found effective is to just stop when i see an unknown dog coming out at me. I will tell them NO!!! in no uncertain terms and act as the dominant animal and if they appear serious, I will go after them first, never had one stand up to me yet and I ride where there seems to be a fair amount of large dogs. That said, if one does bite me, it is a dead dog. I generally can't outsprint a dog on my bike unless I see them from a long ways off, so I just stop and get off my bike and give the dog the impression that any further aggression would not be in its best interest.
watchman is offline  
Old 09-13-05, 07:27 PM
  #22  
Cyclaholic
CRIKEY!!!!!!!
 
Cyclaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: all the way down under
Posts: 4,268

Bikes: several

Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1207 Post(s)
Liked 233 Times in 137 Posts
Originally Posted by kc9eog
Why does everyone assume that dogs chase us to catch and destroy us? The vast majority of dogs are only looking to run alongside us out of boredom; they are actually the ones in danger, what with playing out in the road.
[Moderator: please state your point without name calling Thanks]
Cyclaholic is offline  
Old 09-13-05, 07:40 PM
  #23  
chephy
Two H's!!! TWO!!!!!
 
chephy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 4,263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by notfred
a toddler standing in the street is as dangerous as a dog that thinks you're prey and is trying to catch you and eat you.
Swerving to avoid it might be just as dangerous, more so in fact.

Originally Posted by Toddorado
I thought I might stay out of this one as most are on my side, but now that you have completely gone off the deep end, valuing the life of a dog over that of a child, I must chime in.
This is not what I said; I never compared the two and in fact for this example it doesn't matter at all whose life I value more. Read it again if you missed my point.

Also I never said "Don't spray a dog, don't do anything, let it maul you". Of course one should deal with aggressive dogs, sometimes in a tough way. Hell, I am considering getting something like pepper spray myself! But why do the people want to use the most sadistic way, the strongest pepper spray, the hugest dose of it? Spray some of the milder stuff in your face and ask yourself if you'd want to chase bikers after getting a dose of that. Anyway, among other things, don't you realize that it's more dangerous for you this way too? A wind changing directions momentarily, some of that stuff blows into your face... Oops!
chephy is offline  
Old 09-13-05, 07:50 PM
  #24  
Cyclaholic
CRIKEY!!!!!!!
 
Cyclaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: all the way down under
Posts: 4,268

Bikes: several

Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1207 Post(s)
Liked 233 Times in 137 Posts
Originally Posted by chephy
Let's see how you like this statement instead: "If a toddler runs into the street, I just run over him. He'll recover, and if not, I'm not sure I care. Little kids aren't supposed to be roaming the streets by themselves EVER." Of course agressive dogs shouldn't be out there. But just like with the toddler, it's not their fault they are there, and it's not THEY who should take the punishment.
[maced by Moderator - please refrain from personal attacks]

Yeah, next time I see a toddler run out onto the street I'll be sure to turn and run the other way because at 15+mph it may grab my ankle with jaws designed for taking down and killing live prey

[maced by Moderator - please refrain from personal attacks] They are a weapon, as leathal as a gun. They're always loaded and if not managed/restrained by their owner then they will find their own target. I've been attacked 3 times in the past month, one time the dog was encouraged by the owner to attack me, luckily it was a juvenile dog and not too confident so a swift kick to the snout and it stood down. I chased the owner with the intention of giving him a good kick to the snout as well but he jumped a fence and got away (abandoned the dog).

OP.... pepper spray the dog untill you're happy that it's safe to stop sraying, just save some spray for the dog's owner as well.
Cyclaholic is offline  
Old 09-13-05, 08:04 PM
  #25  
chephy
Two H's!!! TWO!!!!!
 
chephy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 4,263
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 2 Posts
[maced by Moderator - please refrain from personal attacks]

Yeah, next time I see a toddler run out onto the street I'll be sure to turn and run the other way because at 15+mph it may grab my ankle with jaws designed for taking down and killing live prey
You might have to do some pretty dangerous maneouvering to avoid it.

I've been attacked 3 times in the past month, one time the dog was encouraged by the owner to attack me, luckily it was a juvenile dog and not too confident so a swift kick to the snout and it stood down. I chased the owner with the intention of giving him a good kick to the snout as well but he jumped a fence and got away (abandoned the dog).
Owners like that should get not just pepper-sprayed but put away in jail for a long-long time. No arguments here.

If you are really concerned about public safety, you should report chasing incidents to the authorities that manage animal ownership in your municipality. They can take dogs away from irresponsible owners. In fact, they'll put them down, if there is no other way to restrain them, but, I imagine, by a more humane method than burning their eyes out....
chephy is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.