Ok, no problem.

I haven't personally looked into either of these substances. I don't know of any controlled studies looking into these issues. I doubt that any have been done because people with AD/HD are considered high risk for drug abuse/dependence. It would be REALLY hard to get ethics approval for research like that. For any who might read this and not know - all research involving human subjects must be authorized by ethics boards. So, to give an AD/HD sufferer an illegal drug that some consider addicting :rolleyes: would be a really tall order to accomplish.

Theoretically, neither substance is likely to be of much benefit. Nicotine can increase concentration, but the core problem for most AD/HD folks revolves around impulsivity (which adversely affects the performance of rote tasks). I don't think that pot reduces impulsivity much. Nor nicotine.

From what I read several years ago, there actually was a study done on AD/HD and bipolar smokers, though it wasn't a study as in, "here, you're AD/HD, light this cigarette and we'll see what happens" it was more of a, "oh, you smoke and are AD/HD or bipolar? Great! Fill this out" type thing and showed smoking seems to act, for a rather small amount of time, like an SSRI.

But, as someone who's been diagnosed as almost everything in the DSM-IV pocket manual, I can say riding a bike is much better than the med's roullette game these doctor's like to play.

Anyone know if there's any studies out there as to why people with AD/HD are the way they are? Similar to the research on dislexic kids where they found English speakers have a problem in one part of their brain but those who speak Chinese and are dislexic don't have that problem...I don't even know where to start...all I get is "free meds, no prescription" ads anytime I try to look something up.

I don't take meds because I drink coffee instead (Mountain Dew makes my joints ache after about 3 days of straight use-not sure why). I am also not a high level ADD sufferer, more of a middle end. I was dislexic as a child but grew out of that, just as you can grow out of to some point ADD. My hyperness helped me (crazy as this sounds) when I contacted Epstein Bar virus, it enable me to work even though the virus indicator was over 700 while the doctor was screaming for me to go on disability when it hit 500 (I did eventually go on temp disability).

When I use to race cars most people I knew had ADD and the same was true in cycling and the same was true for a friend of mine that raced motorcycles; while and these people may have accidents doing such sports but that was more the nature of the sport...except in the case of Kevin Harvick! But you go back to the old school of NASCAR racing days and there was a lot of bumping and grinding going on that Kevin seems to enjoy now. When I raced cars and bikes I had extreme (hypervigilance) concentration going on which is what most other drivers and racers had; I guess maybe that's why I never had a serious crash in an auto and never in a bike race-or maybe it was just dumb luck. Even from the time I started driving at age 14 (15 1/2 legally) I've only had 3 car accidents (1 major, 2 minor) whereas my wife who does not suffer from ADD has had over 12 (all minor) and we're both now over 50. I've never flown a jet fighter but knew several who did but this conversation never came up and I don't think any had ADD; but they did like the adrenlin rush similar to what ADD suffers like.

But I'm not going to take ritalin because my career is not hindered by the ADD; I even have 3 college degrees so ADD did not effect me in that area either...except all the degrees are in different disciplines because I wanted to learn something different but I don't have masters in anything! I do get bored thus do not have a job where I'm doing the same thing over and over, instead it's something new all the time happening which keeps me interested.

Now I said too much about me so I have to stop.

Mars, I know you said you haven't looked into any of these substances, so I wanted to show you just a few pages I've seen that talk about marijuana or nicotine in relation to ADHD. With marijuana, it seems right, in that there are not a lot of controlled studies... at least for ADHD. I actually think it has to do with the government, because they won't let researchers import marijuana for studying.

Here is an interesting page, with stories about how marijuana helps people's conditions, including add or adhd:
http://rxmarijuana.com/comments_and_observations.htm

Here's a 48 hours cbs story of an 8 year old with ADHD (among other things) that is being treated with marijuana:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in503022.shtml

Marijuana has been used for thousands of years for physical maladies, and mental maladies. Marijuana actually can be split into two groups. Cannabis Indica and Cannabis Sativa. The sativa gives you a clear headed, energetic, up and going , motivated , focus, high. The indica is all in your body, and relaxes you. Then, there are the hybrids, which are common.

So, the type you use, and the amount you use, has a big effect.. but it can help a lot of people.

As for nicotine, here is one study showing that nicotine was good or better than ritalin at eliciting a normal inhibition response.
http://www.uvm.edu/~psych/news/archi...r_nicotine.pdf

I really think saying marijuana or nicotine cannot help people with ADHD is false. I think many people with ADHD self-medicate with these substances. The anti-drug crowd (but pro pharma drug crowd) would call this "substance abuse". But I really think this is unfair. If someone takes 5 ritalins a day to get their head straight, I think they are doing the same thing when someone intakes nicotine 5 times a day, or intakes a dose of cannabinoids at the end of the day.

Its all self medication.

I don't care what those studies show about ADD and marijuana effects on ADD because IT's ALL LIES!!! I used marijuana back in the day and knew others who did and it has no effect on concentration and in fact makes it even worse. You can find studies anywhere (especially on the web) that can show anything works, there's even studies to show Piyote works with ADD and may even open your mind to ESP and/or out of the body experience and it's all false and lies.

USE SOME COMMON SENSE!!!

Froze,

I'm sorry but your way off. Just becuase it doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work for someone else. Did you even take the time to read the stories?

They weren't studies, they were stories... of real people, who found help from it.

Maybe when you used marijuana, you were using it recreationally, which usally means in higher dosages. There are medicinal dosages for marijuana, just like any drug.

I think you need to just realize that the world doesn't revolve around your experiences.

[QUOTE=froze]I don't take meds because I drink coffee instead (Mountain Dew makes my joints ache after about 3 days of straight use-not sure why). [QUOTE]

I have rheumatoid arthritis, I have been told by my Rheumatologist that caffeine is a known problem for some arthritis patients. Hope you don't have it.

I read the stories...so what? I can give you web sites of "real" stories from real people who were aducted by aliens from another planet. I think you need to stop realizing the world doesn't revolve around fiction! see: http://home.iprimus.com.au/rboon/ADDandMarijuana.htm

And have you considered other "non high" or non drug methods of treatment? NO, because it's "everyone must get stoned" song. http://www.your-articles.com/article...ion_as_at.html

This site and a whole slew of links you probably won't have time to see but should: http://incrediblehorizons.com/Understanding%20Add.htm

Marijuana also DECREASES your ability to concentrate and can and does cause brain damage: http://members.aol.com/jamiedoc/

Now I'm not saying that Marijuana doesn't have some medical use especially for those suffering from chronic pain associated with cancer or the like that is causing the body to die. But mostly this is just an attempt by the pro legalization of marijuana groups to make it acceptable and legal.

froze, stop sucking.

Those are stories from people that found help... they don't sound crazy.

Brain damage? LOL. If you ever really fully researched marijuana, you would know its not true. Alot of myths surrounding marijuana relate to a study where they strapped gas masks onto monkeys and had them breathe in marijuana smoke for days on end, non-stop. Of course these monkeys were going to have brain abnormalities... same thing would happen if you sat in a garage and breathed in carbon monoxide non-stop like that.

I've read more stuff on ADD/ADHD then you ever have, guaranteed.

Your just off. You are too caught up in the anti-marijuana propaganda. You were the cops favorite student in the weekly DARE classes in grade school. Your the type of person that wouldn't even touch marijuana, because your AFRAID of it.

You've been fed many lies... and thats all you know.

Its sad.

What's sad is the lies you have believed...probably because you like to get stone and no one is going to rob you of that pleasure so you make excuses for it and believe the lies because it fits your needs.

And look, I'm not saying there aren't other ways to find some form of relief. Sure prescriptions drugs can work, but they also have their own side effects. The come down from drugs like Ritalin and Adderall suck. Its not like these drugs are innocent, they effect you, sometimes in wierd ways...

Diet is a big factor, exercise, and all that stuff.

I'm not saying you need marijuana, but that it does help some people. You need to just admit that its possible...

If it helps someone it helps. Just accept that, instead of being scared that something you've been taught to fear isn't that bad.

There are a lot of medical uses for it... you'd be really surprised how long human beings have used marijuana for all sorts of purposes... thousands of years ago since you have been born. Marijuana's image has been tarnished in this country, and in these times.

Its not just for people dying... its for people with MS... take Montel Williams... glaucoma, chronic pain, chemo therapy, I could go on...

[QUOTE=CagerTools]And look, I'm not saying there aren't other ways to find some form of relief. Sure prescriptions drugs can work, but they also have their own side effects. The come down from drugs like Ritalin and Adderall suck. Its not like these drugs are innocent, they effect you, sometimes in wierd ways..."

That's why I don't take those drugs.

[QUOTE=CagerTools]"Diet is a big factor, exercise, and all that stuff."

That's why I watch what I eat and exercise.

[QUOTE=CagerTools]"I'm not saying you need marijuana, but that it does help some people. You need to just admit that its possible..."

Reread my last paragraph and I said that it could be helpful in some instances.

[QUOTE=CagerTools]"Your just as bad as the stoners that say "Everyone should smoke weed man". You think NO one should smoke weed."

I did not say no one should smoke weed...but most shouldn't.

[QUOTE=CagerTools]"If it helps someone it helps. Just accept that, instead of being scared that something you've been taught to fear isn't that bad."

What is there to be scared of? If you read my earlier post I said I smoked weed at one time. That's just your lame attempt to make yourself feel better for not being "scared" to take the stuff...yeah, your the brave fearless man.

You might have smoked weed before, but I'm guessing u would hang with your buddies and smoke bong hits... recreationally. Lol...of course its going to be hard to concentrate with that amount of cannabis in your system.

Cannabinoids have a staying power in the brain. Some people notice if they smoke the night before, the next day it does help to calm the brain.

I've seen studies on the web, that try to say marijuana slows certain parts of your brain. If you want I can post something on it... But anyways, the same area that slows down, is shown in other studies to be over active in people with AD/HD

So it turns out, that yeah...for some people, they shouldn't be smoking, if they want to keep their non-add brains in tune. But for the add people, it actually helps them, because it helps calm the area that is too hyper.

Here is what I'm talking about:

I found this page:
http://www.ldpride.net/addsub-types.htm

It talks about the difference between ADD, without hyperactivity, and ADHD, which is WITH hyperactivity.

It says that regular ADD, is different than ADHD, in that ADHD is caused by an understimulation in the frontal lobe, and ADD is more of a problem of the parietal lobe.

A google search for marijuanas effects on the parietal lobe.

I found this page:
http://www.globalchange.com/drugs/TADChapter5.htm

If you read it, you'll see this:

Scientists have studied electrical activity in the frontal lobes of the brain in Marijuana users using event-related potential measurements (ERP).You can measure not only patterns of electrical activity in the brain using electrodes placed over the head, but also the speed of brain reactions to - say - a picture or a sound.

Research shows that with increased length of use, Marijuana users are less able to focus attention and filter out irrelevant stimuli, (frontal lobe activity).However with increasing frequency of use there was a growing problem in the parietal area of the brain with slower speed of information processing.

Its interesting. AND it makes sense. If ADD people have overactive parietal lobes, then it makes sense, that something that can calm that lobe, like marijuana, would actually help them. In the case of normal people, frequent use would be bad, but for ADD people, frequent use would calm them.

So, the next question is, does marijuana help ADHD people, who have problems with their frontal lobes? How much marijuana would these people need? Maybe, the dose of marijuana, that can affectively stimulate the frontal lobes, is higher, than the dose that is needed to calm the parietal lobes.

So, there are distinctions between ADD/ADHD. I'm sure some people have percentages of both.

This is why I'm saying, that if something helps someone, then it HELPS them.

blah blah blah, you haven't said anything. It's obvious you haven't read any of the sites I gave...why? Because you only want to see what you want to see so you can have an excuse to continue your habit.

Shall I post those alien aduction websites that "prove" aductions?

I saw your sites... but I've also read BOOKS on add... so, whatever.

Also, I never even mentioned that I smoke, so why can you say I'm trying to continue a habit?

I've read TONS of books on the ADD subject as well and none...NONE said weed was useful or effective.

The smoking part was referring to another poster and not you.

I'm not surprised, since its illegal in this country.

As do you -- your pro-marijuana agenda is just as bad as those you insult for having the opposite view.

If you cannot provide a scholarly, factual reference to cannabinoids being effective in the treatment of AD/HD, leave it to the experts, thanks.

This might not mean much, but I'm pretty much done following this thread, as it's devolved into pro-/anti- specific drug and has little to do with cycling anymore. Send your criticisms to the garbage can.

It takes the edge of of me by the time I get home. It's like a good threaphy session but with a solid workout.

That's a ingnorant statement. First off there are tons of books written in this country about MaryJane and those books are not censored even though weed is illegal. Second those books I read came from doctors that were from all over the world including here in the USA, Canada, England, Switzerland, Denmark and other countries I've forgotten. So your statement doesn't hold water...nice try.

This thread has evolved from ADD/ADHD to who smokes the best herb.

I, for one, have found cycling to and from work a great way to concentrate. Like bostontrevor, sitting in a car makes me want to claw my eyes out.

Yeah, I can only sit in a car if I'm worked out or cycled that day. But even then, traffic SUX. I haven't used my car purposely for a long time now, like 4 months... and, I don't miss traffic at all.

Yeah I'm done with this thread too. I'm not a expert, and I don't claim to be. I think marijuana is a pretty cool thing, but to each his own.

Cycling and marijuana...now thats an interesting thing. I've cycled through the streets of Den Haag, Netherlands... it was my first time smoking. My cousins and I picked up some Ak-47 in a shop there (its legal), and rode around. It was such a fun bike ride.

In Berkeley, I've ridden with people in the Critical Mass there, and some people would smoke also.

It may seem I have a pro-marijuana agenda, but I really don't. If it wasn't legal, the substance would speak for itself. I just think there are a lot of people that have been brought up to fear the plant... for reasons that are not based on truth. I used to be one of them.

This is fascinating . . . 'cuz here's my story.

Recently diagnosed with AD/HD about 2 years ago . . . checked out the DSM and I had every dang symptom! It's not nonsense -- AD/HD is real, and my life would have been a lot easier if somebody had said something to me before I was 31.

Just started working with a coach about three months ago -- like some of you skeptics, I also thought all of this meds and coaching stuff was silly . . . but I had to get over myself -- it all has made a huge difference.

Anyway, this guy asks me what I want to work on . . . while I felt like I was "supposed" to talk about work and finishing my thesis . . . I ended up telling him that I was getting chunky and couldn't get up the energy to work out more than once a week . . . I was also bummed that I couldn't see more of NYC, where I live, to justify my crazy-ass rent.

So he says -- immediately -- "Get a bike! Going to the gym, you have to find your clothes and your lock and all that repetition -- it's boring -- on a bike, you can just jump on it and go!"

The guy's a genius . . . he's the reason I'm here today. Even though it's cold, I've been riding all the time. I rode from Harlem to Battery Park and back on Thursday, and I felt great -- my body was happy and my mind was calm . . . I've seen parts of Manhattan I never saw before . . . and I've lost 7 pounds!

If TV and traffic cause or exacerbate the ADD . . . the bike is a definite solution!

Great to read your success story Rachmiel. I think cycling is an excellent way to get around a city, and encourage it to anyone that can use a bike. And to counter your story Cagertools, I had a great bike ride a few years ago from Amsterdam to Haarlem and back to Amsterdam. On the route was a cocoa factory that you could smell for at least a mile.