Michel,

You're right about the difference between American car headlights and European. The American spill light upwards more than the European, in part because American road design calls for many more overhead signs to be illuminated by headlights than in Europe, where self-illuminating signs are standard.

Anyway, the HID bike light is very well focussed for its purpose. It's supposed to be both a road light _and_ an offroad light, bear in mind. It fills that role very well, providing a very bright central beam and good peripheral lighting. Because of its position on the handlebar, and small diameter its apparent brightness is greater.

The lamp does lack an extensive housing, however, to keep light horizontal or lower, it's true. But, it is a bike light, after all.

In terms of what can be _seen_, it's a tremendous light. Objects on the roadside can be clearly seen, and the light penetrates the darkness far up the road.

The light may be overkill in areas with decent street lighting, however, in part because of the brightness to oncoming traffic.

I pulled up at the stoplight at 29th about a week ago and a gent in an old Toyota pulled up alongside and said my taillight was marvelous. "I spotted you from 8 blocks back! I ride too, so I thought I'd let you know it's making you show up great!"

That was in the daytime, using my Niterider rear flasher. :) Hopefully L&M cooks up something along those lines, because they don't affect runtime much and they are a wonderful asset, day or night.

At any rate, now I am lusting for an HID headlamp too! Thanks for the update with your friend's report about how the system looks to others. :)

Merriwether et al., how do the L & M lights compare to the Turbocat lights (e.g., the S47)? Are they sturdier? Brighter? Whiter? Lighter?

Philo,

These are good questions.

The s47 is a pair of halogen lights that when used together has a 47 watt(!!) high rating. I've never seen it, but I'd like to. That's gotta be bright.

In theory this is brigher than than ARC HID light, which at 13W puts out lumens comparable to a halogen light somewhere over 35w. However, I've noticed the ARC light appears to make the road more visible than halogen car headlamps within its light cone. The ARC light seems a lot brighter than its lumen-equivalent halogen lights would be expected to be.

The apparent illumination of the HID light may be greater than its theoretical equivalent in halogen lights because of the color. The blueish-white penetrates the darkness very far ahead. It also makes objects more intuitively recognizable than halogen systems. These facts about blue-white light seem to me underinvestigated. So I'm not sure that the Cat would outperform the HID light in real riding.

That said, the cat has a higher lumen output than the ARC light, so until more hard data is acquired we'll have to predict that the 'cat will outperform the ARC light. It will certainly seem brighter to oncoming traffic.

As you can tell from my earlier postings, though, I think the ARC light is amazing. It floods the road with light. You can see everything. I haven't wished for more light.

The Turbocat doesn't have a long run time at 47w though, probably less than an hour. The ARC light will run 3 hours at high, 3.5 hours at low. (These light levels are nearly the same. I can't tell them apart without switching between them.) That's a huge difference.

The ARC light has a smart charger, too, and fully charges a spent battery in 3.5 hours. The 'cat has neither feature. It has a standard trickle charger. (You can always use a lamp timer to prevent overcharging. But planning my charging 8-10 hours in advance didn't always work out for me.)

I would like to see a 47w bike light in person sometime!

I just checked the TurboCat website for prices, and noticed the S47 sold for USD300-340, depending on battery type. Merriwether said in the beginning of this thread that the L&M HID costs somewhere around USD350-400. Are these street prices or suggested retail prices?

I was considering mail ordering a lower end TurboCat for my commuter, but gave up the idea, mainly due to all the taxes, postages etc. I figured I could buy a couple of decent halogen systems here at that price. This was two years ago, and now it seems the first one is going wherever it is dead bike lights go. The next one better be good for longer than that.

--J

Juha,

I recently sent back a TurboCat S10 that I purchased after owning for under a week. Simply wasn't bright enough for my needs. The unit seemed to be made very nicely however. For mild (slow) commuting I think the S10 would serve well. But I am looking for a light I can train with a close to daytime speeds.

I looked to purchase a Light and Motion ARC, but could not find anyone with one in stock (the handlebar mount version). So I purchased a NiteRider HID. I'm now on my second NiteRider, since the first unit was defective (shorting out/not turning on consistently/etc). I'll be trying out my second unit for the first time tonight.

FWIW, I purchased my NiteRider light thru Excel Sports and their customer support is top notch in my experience.

I've had the light for about a month now. I've used it many times, several times a week, in fact. I've taken long night rides and short utility rides with it.

The longer I use the light the more I like it. I love this light. I have no regrets at all about buying it, and in fact would not hesitate to get another one if this one got smashed or stolen. The light is a significant step up from even bright halogen lights, and I don't want to go back now.

Two more items:

I've descended at about 30mph without outdistancing the light. I could ride at that speed in safety, seeing everything coming up on the road.

There's no question that the light commands big time respect. I've mentioned that I ride a lot on little traveled, dark country roads. Throughout the time I've used the light, cars coming in the opposite direction have slowed noticeably to pass.

Cars at intersections will stop and wait for me to pass through when I have the right of way. They will wait for even ten seconds for me to arrive at the intersection. They don't know I'm just a guy on a bike. I'm not sure what they think, but they see me and they don't want to pull out in front of me. That's all they have to think, as far as I'm concerned.

This doesn't have to do with HID lights in particular, but I love the turbo charger, too. I can charge from empty in 3.5 hours, and from more than empty more quickly than that. I can decide at 6 that I'm going to ride, and charge the battery by 8.

The battery goes 3 hours in full brightness mode, which provides more than enough time of hugely bright light for even long rides.

I got the ARC two weeks ago and purposely stayed late at work so that I could ride home in the dark. New London is a small town with few stop lights and many twisty, hilly, rural roads. With the NitePro/Vistalite helmet/handlebar combo that I had been using, I frequently "outran" my lights. That hasn't yet happened with the ARC, even at speeds of 48 KPH.

I loved my NitePro/Vistalite combo, it has served me well for years, and I don't wish to offend the hardworking folks at either company. But WOW. The ARC light makes those other lights look washed out and, well, pathetic.

Should the ice storm that's predicted for this weekend materialize, I'll have the chance to see how the ARC fares in single digit (Farhenheit) weather.

Anyway, the main reason I'm posting is to add my voice to the chorus. When first reading Merriwether's posting, I thought it inconceivable that I (or indeed, anyone) would willingly spend $350+ on a bike light. Now, with the wisdom that comes with slightly greater age, and slightly more experience, I know better.

Back when this thread started I looked around at the HID lights. I still haven't taken the plunge, but I'm sure I will eventually. Has anyone tried the Cateye Stadium 3? It is HID and claims about the same brightness and battery life. Don't know if it comes with the fast charger. I'm hoping that these lights come down a little. I'm still having a little trouble whipping out the credit card for a 350-dollar light!

I purchased the Stadium 3 light last October, so have now used it for about 5 months. All-in-all I'm very impressed with it, it's very well engineered (The light housing is made out of aluminium and just has a feeling of quality about it - Much better than the Visatlite Nightstick I had before the Stadium 3. )

My commute (about 9 miles one way) has some unlit sections of road and I can easily cycle at about 25-30 mph in the dark without any problem, the road ahead is well lit and any cars approaching dip their beam so they can also see me from quite a distance away. The blueish light easily picks out potholes, bits of tree, roadkill etc. in plenty of time so that I can plan on avoiding it. Not only that but I am able see how far the light reaches as signs are very well lit up with a blueish glow. Easily reaching 200 metres. So you should be able to see the light from much further away, although I haven't done any experiments to prove this.
The light it very bright, and it really hurts if you look directly at the beam from a close distance, I learnt not to do that pretty quickly ;) (I'm one of those sad people who just have to look directly at a light in order to see how bright it is.)


Filtering in traffic is also a breeze as cars can spot me in their rear view mirror and quite a few will also pull over slightly to make a bit more room for me to pass (quite surprising that!)

The beam pattern, whilst less focused than a car is excellent, as well as lighting up in front, it has quite a wide angle to the spread of the beam, therefore easily picking out the side pavement, gutters, potholes, etc. even when the main beam isn't focused on it. Also the spot of the light on the road doesn't get 'lost' by cars approaching from behind.

The light is easily ajustable on the handlebars. It's very easy to move it left/right without it being 'loose'. You can also easily adjust it on the vertical plane whilst riding (Handy for those really dark bits of road) Even with this movement there is no creep downwards when you go over bumpy terrain. It only moves about when I want it to.

I paid £300 for it (About 470 $US :eek: ) I was very wary of spending that amount of money just for a light, especially as I had forked out about £120 for the vistalight 3 three weeks previously (I'm relatively new to commuting by bike). I just wasn't happy with the vistalight, from having to adjust it on my handlebars all the time, and the charger not being 'smart', also the battery holder wouldn't fit on my bike, so I had to carry the batteries on my backpack!
So I went a got the Stadium.

It comes in a nice case, which is ideal for summer storage. The charger is smart, so that if you do forget you're charging the battery, it doesn't matter. It will charge a flat battery in about 3 hours.
There is also a safety mechanism that will stop the battery from completly discharging (possibly ruining the battery) whilst in use.

One thing with HID lights is that they don't dim when the battery it low, it will just cut out. However, there is a red warning light on the ballast (The bit between the battery and the light unit (which you place on your frame)) which goes on when you can about 20 minutes charge left.

The battery should last about 3 hours between charges, although I top-up-charge mine when I get to work. Charging like this only takes about 30-40 minutes. (The is a red led inside the battery holder that tells you that it's fully charged)

What else? You do get other cyclists looking at it whilst they are riding down the other side of the road! And some car drivers also seem to give it odd looks. It's out of the ordinary at the moment, which to me is a good feature as at least people then register your presence on the road.

Would I buy it again? Yes, I think it's worth the money, I'm a lot happier riding when I can see where I'm going.

Any questions about it, feel free to ask.

Do you guys leave these expensive lighting systems on the bike when you lock them up outside?
How practical are they for commuting where you have to leave a bike unattended all day ?
No-one seems to touch my dynamo lamp unit , and even the water bottle battery power source hasnt been stolen yet, but I would remove this in a high crime area.

Maraxis,
Thanks for the review. I'll tell ya. You guys are making it hard to keep my credit card in my wallet. My morning commute is in the dark every workday year round. It is mostly suburban/urban streets where there is usually street lighting, but some stretches are dark and even the lit sections are often shadowed by large trees that line the street. I am currently using a nice dynamo setup on my commuter, a Dynosys LightSPIN and Hella Micro FF with 4W bulb. It is actually adequate, but I do prefer more light. I use a Vistalite Nightstick setup when I ride my other bikes. The HID lights sound great. I like the idea of having a LOT of light.
Regards,
Raymond

I'm lucky enough to have my own office, with a door that locks, where I can leave my bike every day. When I'm at the grocery store or somewhere else where I have to leave the bike outside for a while, I remove both the light (it's designed to slide out of its handlebar housing with a little effort) and the water-bottle battery. I don't find them very bothersome to carry around, especially when I think about how awful I'd feel if they were stolen.

Enthusiasm is contagious, but rather than repeat a whole chunk of what I've already said, I'll just add few things, or restate a few things succinctly I might have rambled on about above:

(1) I've seen reflections from road signs over 1/4 mile away. This is out in the dark, with my ARC light the only light around. I've not tested to find the limits, this is just what I've happened to observe so far.

(2) The light itself is _easily_ visible from more than a mile away on a dark, flat road.

(3) The light is so bright that oncoming traffic will not know you're on a bike until they're right there. This will be true at least sometimes even if you're riding under streetlights.

(4) I've regretted buying saddles, a crappy bike pump, some shorts that don't fit, and a couple of other things. None of them were anywhere near $350. I find myself thinking, even still, that this light is one of the best bike purchases I've ever made.

(5) The light has no separate ballast. It has a small, water-cage battery, and the light housing itself is small and light. The whole thing detaches very quickly. I'm the only guy with good bike stuff where I live, and there's not much crime here anyway. I can leave the thing on the bike at the store. People here don't have any idea how much something like it costs. It's just a cheap bike light to them, albeit one that's pretty bright.

(6) In very cold weather (10F or colder), the light doesn't always come on right away. I don't know why, exactly. The button feels much stiffer at those temperatures. Perhaps it's just the switch. But once or twice in cold weather I've had to keep my hands on the light housing for 30 seconds or so to get the thing to turn on. This has happened somewhere around one time in twenty, I would guess. I called L&M, they said there shouldn't be any problem in cold weather. This must be the short answer, though.

(7) The cops around here paid a lot of attention to the light when they first saw it. They'd slow when they were oncoming, look at me as I passed, etc. None of them have ever stopped, said anything, or otherwise indicated that there was some problem with the light's brightness. No legal issues here.

(8) The light has very high brightness, long run times, and charges as quickly as it depletes in use. The whole thing is small and well-designed.

Until there is some significant breakthrough in battery technology-- hydrogen cells or something-- this is very, very close to the best bike light that can be made.

Never.

And my "lighting system" is a cheapo Sigma Mirage, not a Stadium 3 or a Lupine. It might be true that not many people understand how much these flashlights cost and so are not inclined to steal them. But I've seen enough bikes smashed to smithereens for no obvious reasons to leave the light attached.

Another reason might be the fact that I mostly need light in winter. Cold weather kills the battery very quickly.

--jh

for 400 bucks i would expect nothing less than a marathon runner sprinting 20 meters ahead of me with an olympic torch.

i'm sure this light is the greatest thing since sliced tofu but i shall soldier on with my lowly halogen until they decide to price it reasonably. my $150 performance setup helps me avoid all the little road nasties you describe, and i'm not convinced a brighter light would reveal a patch of diesel.

I have had my light for a few months now and have been using it 4 out of the 5 days I ride (saturday mornings I do not use it). It is great and running strong. I use it for an hour or so each day and just charge it every other day so I know I have enough juice in case I take a detour on my commute home.

I have ridden with a couple other commuters that have lights (do not recall which models), and it is very difficult to see there light on the rode when we ride next to each other.

An employee at a local shop sells NiteRider systems, but after seeing my light he has one on his bike now :)

I imagine the CS3 is near the quality and power as my L&M unit. Like Merriwether I would have no problems spending another $300-400 if my light was stolen or I had to replace it. Just think, the light on my bike cost half as much as the whole bike :)

$150 lights are good, and not spending more is certainly a reasonable plan.

The Arc light is much better than any $150 halogen light though. It does make the road much more visible, including patches of oil, black ice, pebbles, bits of glass, what have you.

I opted not to spend the extra money on the ARC system but did buy a Solo logic system from L&M. I will say that it is very well built and works great!

As stated in another thread I just got fitted for my new Cannondale R800 and while I was waiting for the stock seat to be changed to the Serfas gel seat I noticed that my LBS had the helmet and handlebar ARC systems in stock.

Having started the commute home at night (I get off of work at 9pm and it's pitch black here in Fresno on parts of Bullard Ave where I ride home- no street lights what so ever) and have been using the Cateye EL-300 which did nothing for me as a night light. Without hesitation I told my sales guy to add the ARC to the bike. I wasn't even thinking about a new light but having put the $1400 down on the new road bike (using the excuse that I will be riding to and from work instead of using my gas guzzling Buick) I figured that the extra $300 for the light was worth it. The last thing I want at night is to wreck because a car or pot hole, etc got in my way.

Haven't had a chance to use the bike yet (picking up tomorrow because of a handle bar and stem change) but can't wait to start the commute to and from work witout any worries.

I just hope I can train my back to stay in the "road" position and not have to revert back to the Hybrid Trek that I have been using.

-Wynn

I have owned an L+M ARC for about a year now. I would agree that it is an amazing light and often too bright. It has stood the test of time well, although it has probably only been run for about 100 hours so far.

While the cost is high I would expect the design to get very good battery and bulb life, compared to the typical light system, so the amortized cost per hour of use may actually be comparable to the $150 15+5Watt VistaLite system that it replaced.