zzxxyy

I am about to rip my drivetrain out and stick in a Shimano Nexus internal drivetrain. Why? Because I am tired of replacing worn chains, cassettes and jockey wheels.

Anyone advise against it? I am tempted to replace all my bikes' drivetrains with internal gear hubs. Winter is a killer on drivetrains.

I am not going to bunny-hop (cannot anyway), so the 1.7kg of static weight concentrated at the rear end will not matter so much.

How about speed. Will I be as fast as if I was on a normal drivetrain?

Gracias!

bbaker22

Hmm...I commuted hundreds of miles on my SRAM 7 speed. There was slightly more
drag (esp in gears 1 and 2) than a derailleur setup, but the lack of maintenance was
nice.

I am building up a Nexus 8 speed premium hub right now, but can't give any first hand
experience on it. I think the internal hubs are a good choice for commuting. If money
were no object, I'd probably run a Rohloff and be done w/ derailleur tuning and
maintenance.

That being said, I don't believe you have the breadth of gearing w/ the Nexus that
you'd have w/ a regular triple setup. So, you compromise somewhere
(higher low end, lower top end, or both). Whether the range is acceptable would
depend on your fitness, terrain, and personal preferences...

baker

TRaffic Jammer

what are the Rohloff's like? I'd love to build up my commuter speed demon with as little hangin' off of it as possible.

bbaker22

Really expensive, fairly heavy, a giant gear range (~526%), w/ a reputation for being nearly indestructable...

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/rohloff.html

baker

unkchunk

Ask me in about two weeks. I put down a deposit for a Surly Cross Check with a Nexes inter 8 last week. Or was it the week before? Anyway zzxxyy, I felt the same way and decided on being my own guinea pig.

DanO220

[QUOTE=zzxxyy]Anyone advise against it?

Only if you climb alot of hills on a regular basis. 1st and 2nd on my Sram 7 exhibited so much mechanical friction that I would only climb in 3rd or higher. After a while I decided that if I was gonna be climbing in a middle gear I might as well make it a single speed and save a few pounds.

How about speed. Will I be as fast as if I was on a normal drivetrain?

In 3rd gear and higher the Sram seems as smooth and efficient as your average derailleur set up... as long as you don't mind hauling the weight. All in all, I thought my Sram 7 equipped Crosscheck made an excellent commuter/runabout for anything under a centurty and without too many hills.

DanO

spider-man

I recently build a rear wheel with a Sturmey-Archer three-speed hub. The rest of the bike is pretty light, and so it's really pretty sporty. I wouldn't race on it, but I can certainly see its appeal for commuting and perhaps even light touring.

CommuterRun

My Townie3 has the Nexus 3 speed hub and I really like this bike. The only thing I wish I had done different with this bike is gone with the seven or eight speed hub. The gears are kind of far apart, inchwise, with the three. But, when I got it I had in mind using it differently from what I'm doing now.

ken cummings

the one sprocket will have all the wear normally spread over the whole cluster. Maybe get one that is easily replaceable?

yangmusa

Nope! I encourage you! Do it! Consider if the gear range will be enough for you. Off the top of my head I seem to recall that the Nexus premium 8 speed is ~305% (it's on Sheldon Brown's site & gearing calculator, but I don't think I'm far out)


In my experience, tires are more important so long as the terrain is not too hilly. My 40 year old Moulton is a heavy old beast with a Sturmey Archer FW 4 speed, but around London it really flies on the Schwalbe slicks at 100 psi.

FarHorizon

If Sheldon Brown likes internal-gear hubs (and he does), they're OK by me! I plan to consider a IG hub on my next recumbent.

Thor29

I'll be the naysayer. The Nexus hub makes the rear wheel harder to remove, is heavier and less efficient than a derailleur setup. In my experience, a high quality drivetrain doesn't need that much maintenance (Shimano XT, Ultegra or SRAM X9). But really, gears are overkill for a commuter anyway. Fixed gear or single speed is the way to go. Not only is it less maintenance, but it's more fun and looks cool too.

grolby

Rear-wheel removal is really a non-issue. It takes perhaps 40 seconds instead of 10 - pretty negligable. It is true that a hub tends to be heavier, but remember that it's replacing an entire drive train, not just the cassette - all in all, it's not too bad. And in less-than-perfect weather, derailer gears need regular lubrication and cleaning. Efficiency is a red herring, in my opinion - the losses are so minor in most gears that most people simply won't notice, and a dirty derailer drive will get less and less efficient as it gets gritty and grimy. A good internal-gear hub always works right when you need it, and you only have lubricate it perhaps a couple of times a year.

Singlespeed might work for you, but it isn't really an option for a lot of commuters. Do you live in the flatlands, or in the city? When I was commuting 11 miles each way to a part-time job, over hill and dale, with some climbs and strong winter and spring winds, I would have been in a lot of trouble without gears. I also have a bad knee. Singlespeed are wonderful and a lot of fun, but to claim that they are a more ideal solution for most commuters than internal-geared bikes is pretty ridiculous. A lot of people either need or want gears for their commutes!

What's nice about internal gearing is that it has most of the benefits of a singlespeed bike in terms of maintenance, but gives the rider multiple gear ratios. This is excellent for commuting, since most commuters that I know of want a reliable, easy-to-maintain, always ready-to-go bike with multiple gears available. Unfortunately, it is true that internal gears are heavier, more expensive, and often have a smaller range of gears than a derailer drivetrain can provide. Lots of folks are willing to put up with maintaining derailers due to these disadvantages, especially because derailer maintenance only gets to be really problematic in winter. More and more people are making the switch to internal gears, though, because of all the advantages named. For all-weather riding, I think that internal-gear hubs are clearly superior.

I suggest that the OP go for it, and tell us how it works. I'm planning for my next commuter to have a Nexus-8 drivetrain, too, probably on a Surly Cross-Check. It'll be nice to hear how that, or something similar works out for others before I make the leap.

bkrownd

Yup. Though I admit when I biked Amherst for many years I used just two gears, and my morning commute was all the way up the hill on Main Street and Triangle from South East Street to Umass. I don't remember being nearly-singlespeed as very difficult, actually. I rode up thru Pelham to the Quabbin overlook, and once all the way to Hawley on those two gears. I'm relatively new to this shifting thing, so I've seen both sides.

On the internal hub, I saw some at a bike rental place once, and the owner was not very pleased with them. Apparently a big service hassle. That's second-hand info, though.

zzxxyy

thanks all!

Yeah. I am most definitely going the route of internal gear hubs. I figure that the initial cost premium would pay for itself in a year's commuting or less.

Incidentally, I am also looking at the Nexus Premium, supposed to be the XT/Ultegra standards. I would love to have the Rohloff but the cost is way higher as well.

ciao, z

meb

In addition to the reliability and low maintenance issues previously enunciated, there is the added benefit of being able to downshift while stopped when you get caught in high gear after an unexpected stop.

I wouldn't rip out all my bike ders in deference to IG, there are still occassions when you want the lighter weight, better efficiency, broader range, and quick interchangeability of rear wheels. But IG generally makes the most sense on commuter bikes.

Saintly Loser

You won't hear anything bad about internal gears from me. My current commuter has derailleurs, but I did shop for a bike with internal gears. What put me off was the price. At least around here, you'll pay a premium of a couple hundred bucks for the internal gears, and I wasn't prepared to spend that on a bike that will be exposed to the hazards of outdoor parking in New York City.

The big advantage, to my mind, is that internal gears are clean, and allow you to run a chain guard. If you have to ride to work in your work clothes, and your work clothes are anything other than jeans or shorts, a chain guard is a big plus.

While we're on the subject, does anyone have any idea if anyone makes a chain guard that can be adapted to a derailleur bike with a triple crank?

uprightbent

The Rohloff might not be that much heavier when compared to the complete package of traditional shifters, cassette, etc. Check the Thorn website
https://www.sjscycles.com/thornwebsite/raventour.html
and see the clever photo of their hub in a scale. Yes is is pricey but quite innovative. About a $1,000 I think compared to the $200 Nexus. Go with the Nexus 8 that has the red line around the hub, its the premium version which is about 10oz. lighter with improved needle bearings.

Dos anyone know where to get a Thorn in the US?

My Nexus 8 has been awsome on a Breezer Uptown 8. Not fast. Not light. Just great all-around.

bbaker22

Well, I have no clue what they are comparing the Rohloff to in that photo. Anyway, the Rohloff is about 1.3 lbs heavier than an XT drivetrain setup (see here: https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...=rohloff+weigh ).

I have the Nexus 8 premium sitting in front of me and total weight (hub, all necessary parts, and twist shifter) comes to 1960g, a little more than 1lb heavier than an XT setup.

Even though I'm a recovering weight weenine, I feel the Rohloff is an option I want to explore.

baker

ItsJustMe

I must say I'm a bit astounded that any commuter gives a damn about 1.3 lbs, especially if it cuts maintenance and improves reliability. Hell, my weight fluctuates by more than that daily. I carry 8 packs of soda, several days worth of clothes, books, all sorts of random crap in my bags.

The Rohloff sure looks nice, but there's exactly zero chance I'd pay that kind of money for one. It'll be a Nexus for me. I'd like to hear from someone who has experience with the 7 and 8 speed for a comparison. I hear people saying the 7 drags a bit in the bottom two gears; does the 8 fix that?

BroMax

Can an internal handle the same load as a der setup? I don't understand how they work but it seems like there can't be much heavy duty hardware in such a small package. I'm shopping now and my semi-finalists include both types of gearing.

grolby

In terms of drive train loads and torque, you're fine. In terms of shocks from impacts, I really don't know how tough the 7 and 8-speed hubs are. The Sturmey-Archer AW is renowned for being as tough as nails, so I wouldn't worry about that. The Nexus-7 and 8 are somewhat unknown quantities. I wouldn't worry about it too much. I wouldn't take them on any technical off-road terrain (get a Rohloff for that), but they can probably handle the potholes and occasional curb-drops of urban riding. Shimano would be pretty lax in the design of a drivetrain part intended for urban use if that were not the case.

georgiaboy

The only Thorn dealer in the US is Harris Cyclery, at least as far as I know. Harris Cyclery recommends buying the frame only instead of the complete bicycle to be cost effective. HC can send the frame to you or they can set the bicycle up as a complete bicycle.

https://sheldonbrown.com/harris/thorn/index.html

ItsJustMe

Planetary gears are plenty tough. I know what's in there, and though I have questions about them, none are about durability. Go to a junkyard and find any 50-year-old 3-speed. I bet the gears work just fine, once relubed.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/internal-gears.html
"Internal gear hubs are more reliable than derailer systems, and require much less maintenance."

Bottomfeeder

There's one thing I forgot to mention, that haven't seen addressed in anyones' posts. But it was a factor in my switching to single speed and traditional cassette and derailleur set-ups.

Internal hubs are charming and might be the ideal application for some folks. But sooner, or, most likely much later, they will need to be worked on. And I've failed to find a bike shop that wouldn't rather have you walk in dressed in a postal uniform waiving a shotgun, than holding an internally geared hub that needed to be torn down.

I like to do my own mainenance whenever possible. To that end, I downloaded the teardown and reassembly instructions from Sram's website. And Kudos to Sram for making that info accessible to us mere mortals. But the instructions were pretty intense, and you'd also need to order a couple specialized tools from them.

So in the end I shyed away from the hub because it had developed some play I found I couldn't adjust away without tearing the thing apart. So in comparison, though tradititional cassette and derailleur set-ups might need to be worked on more often, they are much easier to work on in the first place.

DanO