Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Commuting
Reload this Page >

Got pulled over for running a stop sign this morning...

Commuting Bicycle commuting is easier than you think, before you know it, you'll be hooked. Learn the tips, hints, equipment, safety requirements for safely riding your bike to work.

Got pulled over for running a stop sign this morning...

Old 04-26-06, 09:58 AM
  #1  
SDRider
Cat None
Thread Starter
 
SDRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,510

Bikes: LOOK KG 461, LeMond Zurich, Giant Talon 29er 0

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Got pulled over for running a stop sign this morning...

I'm flying down this hill on my way to work this morning and I come up to a T intersection where I am going straight and there is 0% chance of a car coming from my right (unless a car drives through someone's yard, over the sidewalk, and comes out there to merge with traffic). Anyway, I slow a bit and see a blue Ford Crown Vic turning left as I'm going through. Of course, it's an unmarked cop and he hit the sirens/lights and pulls up along side me to give me some crap so I say "yes sir, no sir, you got it sir" and I'm on my way. Now at the next intersection (another T intersection but the opposite of the former) I have a stop sign so I slow down to almost zero just short of unclipping and putting a foot down. I look both ways and there is no traffic for me to yield to so I go. Well, now he lights me up again and has me pull over into a parking lot. I start pleading my case that I did stop but he's just getting belligerent so I change my tune and tell him he's absolutely right and he ends up giving me a warning telling me that this is my lucky day and sends me on my way to work.

Really, was all that necessary? I never run red lights and always yield the right of way to cars or pedestrians when they have it even at stop signs but I fail to see the need for a bicyclist to come to a complete stop when there is no traffic coming or at a T intersection where there is zero possibility of traffic coming from the right...especially when there are bike lanes on most of the roads here.
SDRider is offline  
Old 04-26-06, 10:06 AM
  #2  
PaulH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 3,546
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked 11 Times in 6 Posts
I think it is certainly necessary. Stop signs give us a chance to pause briefly and scan for traffic, particularly of the unexpected sort (wrong way cyclists, pedestrians, cars/cyclists running a four-way stop.) As they said in WWI -- "Beware the Hun in the sun."

Paul
PaulH is offline  
Old 04-26-06, 10:13 AM
  #3  
ignominious
pointless & uncalled for
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: TOONCA
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The need to stop is because the law says so. Admittedly it's usually a case of it ain't a crime unless you get caught, but if you get caught doing it then don't do it again in front of the same officer at the next stop sign. He will see it as a complete insult to his authority and disregard for your previous encounter.

The rules are that if they catch you once then while you're still in sight your actions better be absolutely text book. Afterall, would you like it if someone came to your place of work and started making a mockery of your job.

Incidentally, at T-sections. I've seen cars come through those and corner so badly that they've struck the pavement on the far outside lane. In all your experience of riding, is it really worth hopong that the next driver isn't as bad as the worst you've seen?
ignominious is offline  
Old 04-26-06, 10:19 AM
  #4  
DataJunkie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
After reading about police officers citing those who have performed a track stand or rolling stop, I unclip.
Now if I can ever remember to purchase a mirror........
DataJunkie is offline  
Old 04-26-06, 10:24 AM
  #5  
ignominious
pointless & uncalled for
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: TOONCA
Posts: 378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DataJunkie
After reading about police officers citing those who have performed a track stand or rolling stop, I unclip.
Now if I can ever remember to purchase a mirror........
Actually, a couple of times here in Toronto I've been waved through by cops after popping a track stand, even on their right of way. I always give them the convincing standing one though, rather than the slack lazy seated version.
ignominious is offline  
Old 04-26-06, 10:25 AM
  #6  
jcm
Gemutlichkeit
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,424
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yeah, ya gotta watch those California Stops. We're a group that is practically genetically encoded to offend that statute. People hate it when they see us 'cheating'. I've stayed with my platforms on the 830 just because it's more practical for me in urban settings. Easier to tap the ground just for effect. The other bike, a 520, is a different story. I usually ride it on the longer day trips out of town and it wears spd's.
jcm is offline  
Old 04-26-06, 10:26 AM
  #7  
SDRider
Cat None
Thread Starter
 
SDRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,510

Bikes: LOOK KG 461, LeMond Zurich, Giant Talon 29er 0

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ignominious
The need to stop is because the law says so. Admittedly it's usually a case of it ain't a crime unless you get caught, but if you get caught doing it then don't do it again in front of the same officer at the next stop sign. He will see it as a complete insult to his authority and disregard for your previous encounter.

The rules are that if they catch you once then while you're still in sight your actions better be absolutely text book. Afterall, would you like it if someone came to your place of work and started making a mockery of your job.

Incidentally, at T-sections. I've seen cars come through those and corner so badly that they've struck the pavement on the far outside lane. In all your experience of riding, is it really worth hopong that the next driver isn't as bad as the worst you've seen?
I know...you are right. I'll certainly be more careful but I still think it's ridiculous. Kind of like giving someone a ticket for jaywalking IMO.
SDRider is offline  
Old 04-26-06, 10:29 AM
  #8  
DataJunkie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ignominious
Actually, a couple of times here in Toronto I've been waved through by cops after popping a track stand, even on their right of way. I always give them the convincing standing one though, rather than the slack lazy seated version.

Well, if I can ever trackstand I will keep that in mind.

Now if they will take my advice and replace all 4 way stops with yield signs
DataJunkie is offline  
Old 04-26-06, 10:32 AM
  #9  
joejack951
Senior Member
 
joejack951's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 11,857

Bikes: 2016 Hong Fu FM-079-F, 1984 Trek 660, 2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i (RIP), 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1, 2016 Islabikes Beinn 20 (son's)

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1120 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SDRider
I know...you are right. I'll certainly be more careful but I still think it's ridiculous. Kind of like giving someone a ticket for jaywalking IMO.
Because jaywalking is safe how? It sucks to get caught but the fact is you broke a law (two times even) in front of an officer. You might have a case if the car in front of you ran the stop sign and got off but that's not the case. My guess is that if you didn't blatantly run the first stop sign, he wouldn't have cared about rolling the second one. The good news: it didn't cost you anything and you learned a good lesson. I've paid a lot more to learn something I already knew
joejack951 is offline  
Old 04-26-06, 11:53 AM
  #10  
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 26,301

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6347 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 43 Posts
Originally Posted by DataJunkie
After reading about police officers citing those who have performed a track stand or rolling stop, I unclip.
Now if I can ever remember to purchase a mirror........
I wonder what they would do if you were still rolling slightly, unclipped, tapped the ground and then clipped back in and rolled on.

Sometimes it really does seem ridiculous... T intersections with no chance of crossing traffic... slow quiet residential streets where no other vehicles are around for blocks... situations where if you were walking, you could cross the street blindfolded... yet, there is a signal or sign, and officer Obie has to enforce "the law."
genec is offline  
Old 04-26-06, 12:26 PM
  #11  
LCI_Brian
Senior Member
 
LCI_Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: in the hills of Orange, CA
Posts: 1,355
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SDRider
Really, was all that necessary? I never run red lights and always yield the right of way to cars or pedestrians when they have it even at stop signs but I fail to see the need for a bicyclist to come to a complete stop when there is no traffic coming or at a T intersection where there is zero possibility of traffic coming from the right...especially when there are bike lanes on most of the roads here.
Don't forget that even though you could be at the top of the T in a marked bike lane, a cyclist could be making a left turn from the bottom of the T. I was once the cyclist who had the green light on the bottom of the T making the left turn onto the top of the T. I almost got clocked by a cyclist who ran the red at the top of the T.
__________________
-- I speak for myself only, not LAB or any other organization of which I am a member.
LCI_Brian is offline  
Old 04-26-06, 12:45 PM
  #12  
Artmo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 1,466

Bikes: '06 Bianchi Pista; '57 Maclean; '10 Scott CR1 Pro; 2005 Trek 2000 Tandem; '09 Comotion Macchiato Tandem; 199? Novara Road; '17 Circe Helios e-tandem

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 84 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
The traffic laws are for all road users, including cyclists. It's actions like yours which give us all a bad name, apart from insulting the cop. If it's OK for cyclists to run a stop sign under those conditions, then why not a car, bus, truck etc?
Artmo is offline  
Old 04-26-06, 12:48 PM
  #13  
noisebeam
Al
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 14,612

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3329 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
I wonder what they would do if you were still rolling slightly, unclipped, tapped the ground and then clipped back in and rolled on.
I am aware of no AZ law that requires a foot to be put down. Only stopping is required:

"B. A driver of a vehicle approaching a stop sign shall stop before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if there is no crosswalk, shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, or if there is no line, shall stop at the point nearest the intersecting roadway where the driver has a view of approaching traffic on the intersecting roadway before entering the intersection except when directed to proceed by a police officer."

Al
noisebeam is online now  
Old 04-26-06, 01:15 PM
  #14  
ecpike
Member
 
ecpike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Boulder City, NV
Posts: 42

Bikes: ~95 GT, ~95 Trek, '04 Jamis

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I got pulled over a few weeks ago for running a red light... It was one of those things where there was no one coming and the light won't turn green unless a car is there (I needed to go straight).. There were people in the left turn lane (going my direction) but halfway up the hill on the other side of the intersection I heard the siren.. I figure he was in the turn lane and I just didn't see him.. I even stopped at the light to make sure no one was coming.. So call it rationalization or whatever, I will stop, but if there's no traffic coming I will go... Also I don't put my feet down at a stop sign, a stop is a stop...
ecpike is offline  
Old 04-26-06, 01:35 PM
  #15  
Cerberusgl
Senior Member
 
Cerberusgl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 214
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Fair and equal treatment. People driving cars now need to open their door and put their foot on the ground at stop signs.
Cerberusgl is offline  
Old 04-26-06, 01:42 PM
  #16  
rule
Senior Member
 
rule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wylie, Texas
Posts: 1,922
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
As long as I come to enough of a stop that I come out of the seat, hesitate just a bit in my forward motion by going into a pre-track stand, the cops around here will watch me go through the intersection and give me a nod for the effort. A couple of times I have had them pull up at a four way the same time as me and wave me on to save me the full stop. Only one time on a group ride have I seen cops be such incredible dicks that they were out doing a little road side sting writing tickets to everybody who hadn't unclipped and put a foot down. They caught so much flack over it, just in terms of bad PR alone, that they haven't done it since.
__________________
rule is offline  
Old 04-26-06, 01:52 PM
  #17  
DogBoy
No one carries the DogBoy
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Upper Midwest USA
Posts: 2,317

Bikes: Roubaix Expert Di2, Jamis Renegade, Surly Disc Trucker, Cervelo P2, CoMotion Tandem

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ecpike
I got pulled over a few weeks ago for running a red light... It was one of those things where there was no one coming and the light won't turn green unless a car is there (I needed to go straight).. There were people in the left turn lane (going my direction) but halfway up the hill on the other side of the intersection I heard the siren.. I figure he was in the turn lane and I just didn't see him.. I even stopped at the light to make sure no one was coming.. So call it rationalization or whatever, I will stop, but if there's no traffic coming I will go... Also I don't put my feet down at a stop sign, a stop is a stop...
Fight this ticket as a stoplight malfunction.
DogBoy is offline  
Old 04-26-06, 02:19 PM
  #18  
noisebeam
Al
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 14,612

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3329 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by DogBoy
Fight this ticket as a stoplight malfunction.
Sure he should fight it, but...

Did you wait in the right place to trigger the light and for the sufficient time (sometimes minutes) for the light controller timing to switch the light?
Or did you have prior experience this light did not work for bicycles and tried the above previously? Did you report it and ensure the report was put on record? The later is especially important if you want to more easily fight tickets if you get one at the same light.

Laws allowing vehicles to treat malfunctioning lghts as stop signs are a neccessity, but too many times I see cyclists using such law as an excuse for running a functioning light, sometimes the same one (functioning or not) repeatedly, without reporting the malfunction.

Al
noisebeam is online now  
Old 04-26-06, 03:27 PM
  #19  
d2create
Senior Member
 
d2create's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Houston we have a problem
Posts: 2,914
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by noisebeam
Sure he should fight it, but...

Did you wait in the right place to trigger the light and for the sufficient time (sometimes minutes) for the light controller timing to switch the light?
Or did you have prior experience this light did not work for bicycles and tried the above previously? Did you report it and ensure the report was put on record? The later is especially important if you want to more easily fight tickets if you get one at the same light.

Al
Doesn't matter where you wait. The lights are usually triggered by magnet strips in the ground. Your bike won't set them off. I can't even count how many left turn signals I have to run on my motorcycle because of the same problem.

And the stop sign thing is bullcrap. You stopped enough for someone on a bike. You were endangering no one. The cop was just being a dik. Can you even get a ticket without ID? You don't need ID or a license to ride a bike. Just tell him you forgot your wallet.
d2create is offline  
Old 04-26-06, 03:33 PM
  #20  
noisebeam
Al
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 14,612

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3329 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by d2create
Doesn't matter where you wait. The lights are usually triggered by magnet strips in the ground. Your bike won't set them off. I can't even count how many left turn signals I have to run on my motorcycle because of the same problem.
Wrong, research is in order. Someone else will chime in with the links I'm sure. I can't believe a motorcycle won't trigger inductive sensors, considering my bike will trigger at least 90% of them and my Alum. front wheel I used to test several worked as well.
In my observation the most common reason folks think the sensors don't work is either because they don't put their bike in the right place (which can be hard to tell sometimes after a fresh repaving) or just as often because they don't have the patience to wait for the light cycle.

Al
noisebeam is online now  
Old 04-26-06, 03:48 PM
  #21  
d2create
Senior Member
 
d2create's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Houston we have a problem
Posts: 2,914
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by noisebeam
Wrong, research is in order. Someone else will chime in with the links I'm sure. I can't believe a motorcycle won't trigger inductive sensors, considering my bike will trigger at least 90% of them and my Alum. front wheel I used to test several worked as well.
In my observation the most common reason folks think the sensors don't work is either because they don't put their bike in the right place (which can be hard to tell sometimes after a fresh repaving) or just as often because they don't have the patience to wait for the light cycle.

Al

ya, i just LOVE running red lights on my motorcycle.
It's not hard to figure out where to put your bike when there are big brown metal lines in the pavement.
Trust me, it doesn't work around here. The industry if full of little gadgets you can buy too that are supposed to trigger the lights, like magnets you strap under your frame. But they don't work either. I've waited thru lights for 3 cycles before to make sure. And I'm definitely not going to sit in an intersection moving my motorcycle all over the place looking for JUST THE RIGHT SPOT to trigger some contraption that obviously was only made for cages. Please.
Do i need to tell you what to do with your "research"?
d2create is offline  
Old 04-26-06, 03:53 PM
  #22  
noisebeam
Al
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 14,612

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3329 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by d2create
Do i need to tell you what to do with your "research"?
I'll take the more pleasant approach
http://www.humantransport.org/bicycl...nals/green.htm
http://www.bikexprt.com/bicycle/actuator.htm

Al
noisebeam is online now  
Old 04-26-06, 04:06 PM
  #23  
freerangemike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 70

Bikes: Gunnar Roadie

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Artmo
The traffic laws are for all road users, including cyclists. It's actions like yours which give us all a bad name, apart from insulting the cop. If it's OK for cyclists to run a stop sign under those conditions, then why not a car, bus, truck etc?
Rolling a stop in front of a cop that has already pulled you over isn't smart. I don't recommend it. But I could care less about whether somebody is offended if I'm not following a random rule if my compliance or noncompliance has no effect on them. It doesn't take a full stop to yield the right of way, which is the important action to take when interacting with other cars, bikes, and pedestrians.

It's not okay for cars, buses, and trucks to run stop signs because they are high inertia vehicles that take up a lot more space and do a lot more damage. There is absolutely no consideration given to bikers when the DoT decides an intersection needs a stop sign.

American car drivers are giving me a bad name, whether they stop or not. Buying or leasing a new car every three years, driving two-story high trucks to haul their egos. We need to embrace the fact that we are different, not assimilate into a system that marginalizes us. Be safe, be courteous, but don't be a car.
freerangemike is offline  
Old 04-26-06, 04:09 PM
  #24  
noisebeam
Al
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 14,612

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3329 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by Cerberusgl
Fair and equal treatment. People driving cars now need to open their door and put their foot on the ground at stop signs.
Is there any state or country where law requires bicyclists to put a foot on the ground for a legal stop? It is not required in AZ.
I don't see it discussed in this fairly comprehensive review of US state bicycle/traffic laws: http://www.bicycledriving.com/trafficlaw.htm

Al
noisebeam is online now  
Old 04-26-06, 04:36 PM
  #25  
rat_factory
= cyclist's tan
 
rat_factory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: the big D in the big T
Posts: 297

Bikes: '82 Miyata 310, '87 Scott Boulder, '87 Schwinn Le Tour, '91 Cannondale SM500, '96 Schwinn Clear Creek, '99 Schwinn MesaGS, '05 Rockhopper

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
rule or anybody from texas: do we have to unclip and put a foot down?
rat_factory is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.