Not at all. I wasn't ever holding anyone up in those three lanes. They could have easily signalled and gotten into one of the two other lanes and passed me, and in fact they all did except that one guy. That's how it always is. One person is mad at you and snarls, and the others are fine. If everyone is as mad as that guy, well, that's the risk we take. we know the risks. I mean people go rock climbing and sky diving, and I like them, am not under the impression that I'm invulnerable to getting hurt. The difference is if I get hurt it's as a result of someone else's negligence or short tempered ignorance. But it's a risk I'm willing to take, you know? I'm sure most people on this forum understand what I mean, since we're all commuters. The benefits outweigh the potential negetive side.

Very difficult for me to understand what you're suggsting we do here, £em. I have no other options. We have no other options. In my city there aren't even sidewalks, and cross walks are extremely rare. there're 1, 2, or 3 lanes and a curb, beyond which is grass and parking lots and rubble and weeds and crap. It's totally fine to ride in the rut where the passenger tire would be as you well know. I was never holding up traffic on that three lane road, and I resent your strange hostility toward us commuters...I frankly don't understand it! We're a little community here of people who bike to work and around town, asking and offering support of one another... I'm certainly not riding in a manner better suited to give me material to brag about on this forum, in fact this is my first post... so yes, thanks again for all of the helpful comments everyone, I wish the discussion wasn't diverted by a sort of cowardly hostility unique to internet forums...

[This is not Europe. People eat Big Macs and would rather drink beer, watch NASCAR or WWF
than go to an art museum or think.
People who take a lane to go 15 mph created this reality for us.
QUOTE]

How did we go from being bike commuters to causing nationwide epidemics? In my OPINION, we are all a product of the society we live in. We want things fast and cheap, period. I am no exception, when I order bike parts I always pay ridiculous amounts for overnight shipping. We want things fast, but this does not mean that a slower driver has any less rights on the road. Is it dangerous? Absolutley. Is hitting debris in the gutter and wiping out into the lane of traffic any less dangerous? Slow cars or Cyclists taking the lane has not caused people to want things faster, it has not caused people who drive cars to hate us any more than they already did. For every vehicle driver that yells or swears hundreds of cars pass us everyday that do not. Many of them are jealous, and wish they could do the same. No matter how far to the right you ride you will always have someone who will be upset by it, and to that I say oh well. Cyclists and commuters are not the bad guys, (though I am sure we have all had our moments).

I disagree with the driver.

You aren't holding up traffic if he can go around you. No reason at all to put yourself at risk near the road edge when traffic can go around just fine. Now if cars get stuck behind and have to wait a good 10-20 seconds--then move over or even pull all the way over and let all go by.

It is more unsafe to ride the edge and around a rock or pothole by moving more into the lane than it is to drive a third the way in the lane all the time.

I try to work "with" cars while on the road. I take the lane if there is nowhere else for me to go (i.e., shoulder) or if the road is so narrow that it would make it unsafe for a motorist to pass me. If I were in a situation where cars were piling up behind me, I would try to pull over and let them pass. This is a courtesy. I give, you give (hopefully :rolleyes: ).

Of course, a law doesn't physically protect me from that 2-ton SUV so I need to be sensible. But I shouldn't let vehicles revoke all of our rights either. We need to carefully 'remind' them of the rules.

Yes, people are in a hurry. But who's fault is that? All together now... ;) Now I don't like the "too bad" attitude, but there is some truth to it. If I am in a car going the speed limit of 35 but someone behind me is in a hurry and wants to go 55 should I speed up? Should I get out of the way? No, I shouldn't.

If someone is lingering behind me and will not pass I try to help them. Hey, they are giving me space and I appreciate that. I'll either pull over a bit or watch for a comfortable opening and wave them by. I also try to indicate appreciation for their courtesy.

Just think, if you do something nice for that blowhard driver one day, they might change their attitude towards cyclists a bit.

-Dave

Exactly. There is a balance to be struck here. I try to stay out of the way on my ride, but I have a 1/2 mile descent on a narrow 2 lane road with no shoulder. On my beater, I'm probably doing around 20 MPH downhill, slow enough to hold up traffic. I pull over at the top to let cars get on the hill before me. I wave cars by on a straightaway. At the bottom, which is curvy with potholes on the right side of the road, I always take the lane 3/4 the way to the left and give a "one-second" gesture (like a right turn signal) if there is someone behind me and wave "thank-you" when things open at the bottom...and the love-fest rolls onward to work.

I think most drivers appreciate the acknowledgement and communication and I haven't gotten a honk or anyone riding up on me for over a year at this spot.

You are terribly confused. No one rides in center of lane to be militant or making a statement, we do it because it is safer. Thats all. We move over when safe and practical to let faster vehicles pass. No big deal.

As to holding up burger boy, he shouldn't be leaving for work so that a 15sec delay makes him late. Anyone who is reponsible to a job or 'date' will leave with time to allow for the normal variations in commute time.

Al

Bingo.

I'd rather be assertive and alive rather than vice versa.
'nuf said
Discussion over :p

No less important than those that think they have to speed everywhere...

Im sorry you are suffering internet hostilities. There is no ill feeling or
bad stuff intended despite how these posts might read to you.
If you look at all the posts, I am taking a much worse beating than you are.
But, the difference is your post asked a question. I merely answered it.
This is your first post....you will see there are two camps who will not budge on
this issue. This happens regularly. I have been riding for 41 years and after suffering
alot of the stuff mentioned here I came to my own way of riding that doesnt bother
anybody, gets me where I need to go and is enjoyable and mostly problem free to me.
Why would you change something or not support what has worked for you ?
You are the one posting about how a car harrased you, not me. Even if you dont agree
with me now if you keep suffering this type of harrassment maybe you might reconsider
your riding style. Two anecdotes at the risk of being longwinded......I took a backroad
out of Wilmongton De. daily for months...The area where a poster here who regularly
confronts me on this board lives. Rt. 100 is a windy, narrow country road that like many
other NE roads was never meant for the traffic it now has to handle. In the spring, at
least twice a week, militant roadies would purposely spread out of the whole road going
15mph. Im sorry, Im an avid bike supporter but this is totally selfish, irresponsible behaviour.
I see this here regularly too....How are you going to get people to support us after being
assaulted by this this type of arrogance....I worked a temp agency recently. A lot of
different assignments...People regularly asked me if Im one of the ones "who holds everything up".....
The reality is that this is the microcosm of the macrocosm. We are not wanted on the road.
In a perfect world people would give us room, never cut us off, be happy, smile wave etc
but thats not how it is. My reality is that every time I see a line of traffic behind a roadie
or someone else doping up the road at 12 mph with a line of cars behind them thats about
25 less people who will support bikes in traffic. Sorry if that offends you and that is not
what you wanted to hear but thats my opinion. Just as valid as the other ones.
Be safe...

They dont have to be speeding, Gene....
The difference between someone going 45 in a 50 zone
is much less than some going 15 in a 50 zone....
I tired of taking a beating on this so this will be my last post on this
thread for a while.....we choose a mode of transportation that is
inherently much slower than almost all others. To inflict this on
other people who are clearly in the majority and maintain their own
'flow'(?), to me is wrong. If you decide to do so, great, I dont have
a problem with it. I am only opining that we shouldnt be complaining
about harrassment or no public support when we are assualting them,
real or imagined, in our own way.

Its not wonder you've been taking a beating,

with statements like this:
Al

Amen Brotha', It's refreshing to see an honest view on this subject. Needless to say I agree w/ all of your post in this thread.
I actually registered to say so. I've lurked awhile here getting much helpfull info, and never feeling a need to post until now. I took a similiar beating in a cycling thread at VW enthusiest board on the same issue. It's interesting how the anger comes out when people go aginst the normal cyclist opinion on this issue.

Everyone loves to feel special, they even love it more when they think they have a righteous reason to jump on the soapbox and let everyone know how special they are.

Wow, that's a bunch of crap. This is straight from the North Carolina drivers handbook.

Bicycles
Bicycle riding is an important means of
transportation, particularly for traveling to and
from work and school. Because bicycles are vehicles,
bicyclists must obey the same traffic laws as
other drivers.
Bicyclists usually ride on the right side of
the lane, but are entitled to the use of a full lane.
Pass With Care
A bicyclist staying to the right in their lane
is accommodating the following drivers by making
it easier to see when it is safe to pass, and
easier to execute the pass. Drivers wishing to
pass a bicyclist may do so only when there is
abundant clearance and no oncoming traffic is in
the opposing lane. When passing a bicyclist,
always remember the bicyclist is entitled to the
use of the full lane.

First, and foremost not all commuters that ride bikes CHOSE that form of transportation... they may be economically forced to ride bikes... ask any college student. That was the reason I rode everwhere while I was a student.

Second, you have failed to address both me and Owltooth with an answer to how to "ride your way" when no alternative roads exist. We both mentioned using the only road that goes between two points and you failed to address this. We both mentioned that the roads were multilaned, so drivers had an alternative, but may fail to use their alternative... thus the problem is their's not ours... yet you don't see it that way.

Your main issue seems to be with groups of roadies that use the entire road... fine... go find them and address the issue... they are not likely to be commuters.

Third the delays you seem to be worried about that may come about as traffic moves around a cycling commuter are less than the delay one typically gets at a stop light... so it is not as if we are actually effecting the over all timing of anyone getting to work. You specifically mentioned 15seconds (for the burger guy) Stop lights are typically 50 seconds. So you are way off the mark there.

I think it's time to renew your meds.

The part that got me was when he called causing a motorist a few second delay 'assault,' but a motorist threatening with a deadly weapon is only 'harrassment' and is the expected response given the cyclist 'assault' - and this comes from a cyclist!

Al

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...60339&t=h&om=1

For those who care, here is a shot of Route 100 in Wilmington. I agree that this is a "windy, narrow country road that was never meant for the traffic it now has the handle" assuming you are talking about rush hour traffic. If you asked me if I think that cyclists should avoid this road at those times to "be courteous" I'd say no. 95% of the motorists on that roads are using it as a shortcut between 202 and 141 so why should a cyclist have any sympathy when slowing them down when the motorist could be sitting at a standstill on the major roads instead. If they don't want have to sit behind a slow cyclist on a curvy road, then take the major roads that were built better for the purpose of moving lots of traffic. If you don't want to do that, then deal with the chance of sitting behind a cyclist.

And £em, since you used to ride on this road, where did you position yourself so as not to get in anyone's way? In my experience, one would need to ride the fog line 6 inches from the edge of the road (and the drainage ditch) to possibly allow faster traffic to pass unimpeded.

For the record, I'm discussing, not confronting. If I offend you with my posts, please say so and I'll drop it. I honestly find it interesting to discuss these roads since we both have experience on them.

I also frequently have to ride streets with 3 or 4 lanes each direction and 45mph or higher speed limits. The parallel streets that have less and/or slower traffic frequently do not cross the freeways, and there certainly are a lot of freeways here.

Yup... like I said... must be time to renew the meds. :rolleyes:

I tend to fully agree with the other posters that the delays in traffic generally come from other motor vehicles... cyclists are not even a blip on the delay radar. However... the feeling that some motorists have regarding cyclists IS a problem... and the aggressive displays that come from those pent up feelings can be just a bit too much. (recalling your videos... GRIN)

I was out riding the other day in the same area that I mentioned in "The Notion" thread... had another motorist pass me... totally different way... passed nice and evenly, no revving of the engine, no attitude at all... we happily shared the road and the lane. Total different feeling. Really amazes me that some folks here can't seem to tell the difference between co-operation on the road and the lack thereof.

I do understand the animosity that can be generated when a group of roadies takes the entire road... Sometimes the peleton isn't aware of what they are all doing... but at other times, there may be safety issues involved. And frankly, all the frustration vented by motorists is really BS... they are sitting in comfortable seats, usually air conditioned, or heated, with music; and their entire effort involves moving a foot and hand... it should be no big deal for them. It is their ill-perceived "ownership" of the entire road that causes much of the problem.

20 seconds?!?!

I should stop and get off the road because a motorist was behind me for 20 seconds instead of being able to race up to the red light at 15mph over the posted speed limit?

Part of riding or driving in traffic is that people slow you down and you slow others down. Sometimes both cyclists and drivers forget this.

Finally, someone gets close to the root cause - everybody is too freakin impatient, rude and in a hurry. Even that isn't going all the way to the root - what causes us all to be in this agitated state way too often? IMO it's the stress of our rat-race way of life. Until that changes, until people can learn to relax, enjoy life and exhibit good manners, the roads will never get safer for anyone, including us cyclists.

I don't hold people up. Rush hour traffic holds people up here in southern California. That is the REALITY. Trust me, if every bicycle in California evaporated overnight there certainly wouldn't be any less hostility out there on the roads. Acting like bicycles don't belong on the road isn't going to get bicycling taken seriously.

Huh? The OP lives in OKC not some one horse town.

So is driving an automobile, right?

Every day I see fresh evidence of a motor vehicle accident during my commute. I see the accident or the police dealing with the accident scene just about every week.