Wheels (rims more specifically)
 

So I noticed a cracked rim last week and went to the LBS to have the wheel rebuilt w/ a new rim.

The shop had few rims in stock, so I was stuck w/ calling around town to find a good, bombproof touring, commuting, or tandem rim.

I'm a big fella (260 lbs) and I carry a hefty pannier to work. The return leg of my commute is in the dark (9pm) so I don't always miss the potholes in the dark. Needless to say I'm looking for something stout.

Anyway, my project was to find the strongest 36 hole rim in stock somewhere in town, 36 holes because I don't want to buy a new hub as well. I'm buying a new tire and the budget is strained. I ended up finding my rim of choice (a Mavic T520), but I'm curious as to what y'all use, or what y'all would buy if you had to replace a rim today. What works? What doesn't?

I've put about 6,000 miles on a pair of Mavic Open Pro CD 36H rims laced to Campy Chorus hubs over that last two years. I weighed 240-200 during this period of time and never had to do more than minor truing of the rear wheel at the start and end of each season. The front didn't even require that. So I could not recommend a rim/wheel more highly than these. Now that I have dropped below 200 and am still going down I have moved to Mavics Ksyrium Elites. After about 1,000 on them I have had no problems. Also use Mavic's on my MTB. The Mavic Open Pro CD is sort of what all other rugged daily use rims are measured against. Not the lightest, but definitely one of the strongest.

I guess people get tired of hearing about riding around on older bikes, but since this is the commuter forum, I can say it again.

I find that when you ride a bike every day in urban areas, you go through at least one rim/wheel per year. Since you need your bike every day to get around, you need a couple of spare wheels on hand to make a quick switch. Since you are a heavier rider, you will go through a lot of rims - especially rear rims/wheels.

Keep your eyes open for older bikes with spare wheels you can canabalize or at least try to pick up a spare set of wheels.

a V-section rim will be stronger so maybe the cpx33 mavic... not sure if that's out of your budget. I've had good luck with Open Pros also.
I'm no heavyweight so I might not be the best source but I've found the 2 above strong. Also, with 36 spokes I'm tempted to say any well-made rim will last as long as any other.

I like Alesa (917) rims, they are very tough and have a wear indicator. Ive used mine on and off road, and they hold up well.

Interesting comment on V-section rims from RacerX. I had three different LBS warn me away from the CPX33 and similar rims during my "fat" phase wheel search. All stated that these rims were designed for lighter riders (racers, primarily). You might also check www.mavic.com and other wheel websites. Mavic has a fair amount of information on theirs and it might make some suggestions or provide some answers.

I ride the mavic t-519/520, they seem to perform the best out of the many I've tried, I do occasionally bend one. I understandt SUN makes a stronger rim, I'm going to try one next failure.

I'm glad to hear you like the Mavics as I've just had a set of wheels built with them onto Hope hubs.

£240 ($350-400)!

My old Wolber Super Champions and Campag hubs have given fine service but have had their day. Braking surface is very bad now.

I have the 519's (now the 520) on one bike that I use for commuting, and the less expensive 221's (now 224) on the other. Since both bikes are set up similarly, I can interchange the wheels between the bikes (since I agree with Mike about redundancy, although I usually try to achieve it by always having at least two rideable bikes).

It's been my experience that high, even tension on spokes that were properly stress-relieved when the wheel was built is the key to longevity. All four of my current wheels have over 10k miles on them without any failures, and at 210 lbs I'm not a featherweight. In fact, the 221's reside on my heavier bike which, when fully outfitted for the commute with racks, panniers, lights, fenders, pump, tools, etc., easily tops 50 lbs all by itself.

You'll be fine with the 520's as long as the quality of the build is high. No rim will survive bad setup.

RichC

I'm a pretty big guy (but trying to fix that with alot of riding). I weigh in at about 280 to 290. I had a rear wheel built for me. It's a Mavic T519, 36 spokes, 4 cross pattern, ultegra hub. The spokes are 14 gauge straight lace. I've been riding it with specialized armadillo turbos. It has not been working very well. I usually have loose spokes and an untrue wheel every 50 to 300 miles. And I've broken my fair share of spokes. I've had them rebuild the wheel once also with spoke prep. At this point, I'm kinda just limping along on the wheel to see if the latest adjustment (they had me switch to a softer, bigger tire, saying that the stiff, nonflexible armadillo was the cause of the loose and/or broken spokes) does the job. If it keeps up like it has been, then I have several recommendations to another wheel builder. I will probably ask him for his opinion first. I'm guessing he'll suggest something with 40 spokes.

I'm actually debating on just going to do that now. I'd like to get a set of wheels that are more cyclo-cross so I can go on hard packed dirt trails, gravel, and/or hard packed snow. The trail I have in mind is quite bumpy but not too bad. So, I'm sure I'll need totally bombproof wheels.

It's either do that, or give up riding until I get down in the 250-260 range. That seems to be the range where the wheel I have works well for people. The mechanic at the LBS I go to is about that weight and he has wheels very similar to mine, and he's never had a problem with them. So I think it's mostly just my weight that is the problem.

My mountain bike wheels do fine, even on that rough bumpy trail.

Good luck.

PBW

Rich has the answer to long rim life, tight even tension.
P.B. I have found through experiance that a 4 cross wheel will ride softer than a 3 cross, but the 3 cross is more durable and will tend to bend less on rough roads when properly built and tensioned. I build my favorite wheels for me and for many other happy cycling using the Mavic 519/520, DT- 14/15 DB spokes and shimano ultegra hubs using the cross 3 lacing, I also find that for banging around I run the contiental ultra 2000 700-28C and for long distance I like the top touring.

Mmmm that is interesting. I've been told the 4 cross will hold up better than a 3 cross. Maybe that's the problem.

They switched me to the Continental Top Touring 2000 (700 x 32c), from the Specialized Armadillo Turbos (700 x 26c) because they said the specialized tires were too stiff and had no give, therefore they were causing the spokes to loose up and the tire to go out of true. Not sure if I believe that or not.

I'm inclined to try a different wheel builder and see what he/she thinks about a 40 spoke wheel with a 3 cross pattern, double butted spokes (14/15/14) and probably a 32c tire.

PBW

P.B. I feel you would be in good shape with a 36 spoke cross 3 wheel built with db 14/15 spokes but you will be stronger, (even though I don't see the need) with the 40 spoke wheel, that's about as close to bomb proof as you can get. Although, a poorly built 40 spoke wheel is no better than a poorly built 36 spoke wheel. You need to find a quality wheel builder to do the work for ya.

Hi,
something to consider is tires. A larger tire is going to not only cushion your ride; it will also cushion those rims. If you're banging into potholes at 20-30mph; you might want to consider jumping up a size or two in your tires.

I'm surprised to hear about people breaking spokes, rims, and hubs. I'm a big guy, 6'2" -- 260# and I've put several thousand miles on old sun chinook rims laced to a LX hub with no name spokes and nipples that round off just by looking at them LOL. I used Tioga street slicks with GOBS of pressure. Many times I'd have the kid on the back in a bike seat. These rims have seen tons of miles on singletrack.. road.. you name it they've been there. The wheels were built by a bike shop in Minot ND of all places. When I swapped them with the Mrs. I needed to swap cassettes and noticed that the spokes were even gnarled when the chain went just a little too far a couple of times. I am at a loss why anyone would damage a wheel unless they are doing jumps or that stuff you see on real TV.. guy jumps off a friggin cliff with his bike :D
Reading all of your horror stories makes me cringe when I think about the machine built (I assume) wheels I just bought.. XT's laced to SUN Rhyno lites... I think the next time I'm in Minot ND I'm gonna have that bike shop at least touch the rims :D
Doug

Doug,

I think there are many reasons why some people break spokes and others don't. Here are a few, in no particular order.

- Wheel width (or OLD). Current design is for 135 mm (mountain and touring bikes), or 130 mm (road). Previous standards have been 130 mm, 126 mm and 120 mm. The wider the OLD, the stronger the wheel... especially with a higher number of gears. A 126-mm wheel with an 8-speed freewheel (there were a few of them) is fairly weak, because the right spokes are nearly vertical.

- Beefy rear triangle. If you look at a current "loaded touring bike" such as the Trek 520 or the Cannondale T800 or T2000, you'll notice that chainstays and seatstays are much wider than on a touring bike of the late 1970s or on a current road bike (compare Al with Al and steel with steel). If the rear triangle isn't still enough, there might be vibrations or shimmy transferred to the wheel. This typically may become a problem with heavily loaded rear panniers or a BOB trailer.

- Inside derailments. As you said, if the chain derails into the spokes, it will gauge them. It's not a serious problem if you were applying light pressure on the pedals, but could be if you were standing on the pedals at that time, as the chain will dig in more forcefully.

- Riding technique. Standing on the pedals is harder on the bike than spinning all the time. One just needs to do it a few times on a flexible 1970-1980 loaded bike to feel it.

- Riding technique II. Lifting ones weight from the saddle helps ease out bumps.

- Wide tires. Within reason, of course.

- But the most important source of problems is poorly built wheels. I don't know your bike shop in Minot ND, but I'm often more worried about large-volume shops, especially during the high season, as they have many temporary workers around. It's quite likely that your wheels were built or maintained by a true bike mechanic. As for your machine-built wheels, ping the spokes and you'll have an idea how well they are built. It's likely that adding 1/2 to 1 full turn of the spoke wrench to each spoke will help, but read Sheldon's page first. Url: http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html


Regards

Thanks Michel, some enlightening info.
The local bike shop in Minot was a small, well run shop. They had 2 long time mechanics when I was there.
I'm eventually going to get a wheel trueing book and a stand. I have no intentions of building my own wheels but I would like to be able to at least properly maintain them.
Thanks again for the info,
Doug

Dougmt, pick up The Bicycle Wheel by Jobst Brandt.

Regarding your current wheels, all they probably need is to be stress-relieved:

http://yarchive.net/bike/stress_relieve.html