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Moral obligation to help fellow bike commuters?

Old 11-04-06, 05:48 PM
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Moral obligation to help fellow bike commuters?

I rarely encounter bike commuters, particularly in the winter. However, once in a long while, I run into someone who needs help. I travel well-equipped, and my standard practice is to assist however I can with parts, tools, know how, and a cell phone.

Two nights ago, I almost ran over this guy on a MTB in the dark and the rain. He had no lights and was about 6 miles from the next town. He was wearing a dark leather jacket, blue jeans, and a full face motorcycle helmet (black). Although he was rolling towards town, I thought this guy could really use my help lighting the way and also making him more visible, though the shoulder was adequate.

I was already 15 minutes late going home but just looking at him, I doubted I could light his way without making myself late by another 15 minutes or so because it was clear he had neither the bike nor the conditioning to move anywhere near my normal cruising speed.

I left him behind with the lame logic that it's not my problem if someone insists on being an idiot. However, had he been a "regular" cyclist with a flat, I would have thought nothing about stopping and mounting one of my spare tubes even though I think people should be prepared for common problems.

Just wondering, what do other cyclists do when they encounter someone with a problem who needs help? I'm feeling a little guilty about not being more useful, particularly since I probably would have been happy to light his way if he could move at a pace that I didn't consider painfully slow.
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Old 11-04-06, 07:02 PM
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I always slow and ask if they have everything they need. Have to find someone who needed me to stop.
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Old 11-04-06, 07:05 PM
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Old 11-04-06, 07:12 PM
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At some point you have to allow people to learn from their mistakes. That is a form of helping as much as fixing someone's flat.
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Old 11-04-06, 07:17 PM
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Banerjek -- I think you did the right thing. I think we all have some responsibility as fellow travelers to help people out with mechanical problems. I always slow down and ask if people need help. Much of the time I am turned down, but on occasion I have been able to help out. I know when I have had a flat, I appreciate people asking -- I've not needed help, but its nice to know people will offer.

I think the guy you ran across was being stupid -- not a condition any of us can fix briefly at roadside. The guy made a poor choice to ride unprepared after dark and that is not your responsibility. Think of him in the same camp as the wrong way cyclist you see. You're not responsible for the wrongway rider or riders striving for invisibility.
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Old 11-04-06, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by sbhikes
At some point you have to allow people to learn from their mistakes. That is a form of helping as much as fixing someone's flat.
I like this logic. Lessons you learn the hard way tend not to be forgotten, so you don't wind up repeatedly doing the dumb thing in the future. Speaking for myself, I usually learn the most when I make things right after screwing up.
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Old 11-04-06, 08:10 PM
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I generally just dodge the lightless riders in the dark. Considering I can pick up an LED light for less than $4 that makes you nice and visible from the front, there's really no reason to be riding without a light.

I do generally slow down for someone having mechanical problems, and make sure they have what they need. I've stopped a few times to help other cyclists out.

I've also given away LED flashlights/bike lights on occassion to people that really seemed to need them at the time. (gave one away last night, in fact, to a lady who missed her bus and was going to walk home in the dark pushing a stroller.)
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Old 11-04-06, 08:36 PM
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I stopped to talk to a guy who was pulled off to let me by once; he was without light or reflector, and he thought I was a car because of my halogen. I offered to light his way, and he accepted. However, he couldn't keep up. I dropped my speed to about 10 from my usual 16, and I looped back 3 or 4 times, but the last time I went back 1/4 mile and still didn't see him, so I just went on. This was in the winter with a snow cover.
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Old 11-04-06, 09:50 PM
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The couple of times I have escorted someone at night I have stayed behind them just so I would not lose them. And I only took them as far as the next Quicky mart or such place where they can get shelter and call for help. Now I just offer to call for help for them on my cell phone. Once, alone on my tandem, I gave a lady a lift a half mile to her home.
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Old 11-04-06, 09:54 PM
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I don't ride at night in the dark and I'm in So Calif so no snow. I ride mostly in the early mornings and I think slowing down is not the way to go. I find that many riders feel they can fix their own problems and will tell me they're ok. So now I come to a complete stop, disengage from my pedals and then ask how's it going. That way they have my complete attention and they know it. I can now dialogue and it makes a big difference.
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Old 11-05-06, 05:48 AM
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Banerjerk, I take it he did not have any mechanical problems at the time - right?
If it's just his stupidity of riding in the dark without lights that was an issue, then ask yourself this: "Should I stop all cars and buckle their seatbelts for them?"

Sounds like this guy chose to do a stupid and dangerous thing. If you rode along with him you might have been able to light his way – but you would not have made him more visible and could have endangered yourself by being close to him when a car “swerves to miss the black blob next to the cyclists”.
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Old 11-05-06, 06:04 AM
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I'll stop and offer assistance to motorists and cyclists alike who are on the side of the road due to mechanical break down or a flat tire, even if the only assistance I can offer are the use of a cell phone or moral support. However, there is no moral obligation to do so, I do it just to act like I'm a nice guy.

But someone choosing to ride at night with no lights, especially if they're also wearing dark clothing, is beyond my ability or willingness to help.

The flip-side to this, which I think is pertinent, is I've had motorists stop for me if I'm on the side of the road.

Last edited by CommuterRun; 11-05-06 at 06:45 AM.
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Old 11-05-06, 10:35 AM
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This may be beyond the scope of this bike forum but we are touching on the issue of moral right and moral wrong. Some do not believe in moral absolutes. Kant believed in absolutes but denied knowing them. Some are moral relativists. So you have a broad range here of what exactly is a moral obligation.
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Old 11-05-06, 10:40 AM
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I guess I have a different mentality... what if he was in a bind and needed to get to work that day while his car was broken down? there are alot of what if's I guess... but, what does it hurt to ask?

on the other hand... If I see the same guy riding like that day after day... then, i'll assume he's ok with the situation. who am i kidding... i'd probably still ask if any help was needed(maybe lighting the way) only once though.

that being said... no need to feel guilty about it bane.
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Old 11-05-06, 10:48 AM
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I think its important to respect peoples decisions even if you think they are unwise. The guy chooses to ride in the dark without a light. So be it. I wouldn't presume to overrule his judgement about his own safety. Now if he had a light which had failed, then I can see being the good samaritan.
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Old 11-06-06, 03:35 PM
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I will always help someone who appears to be trying to help themselves. If I reckon someone's not trying to do that then my time is more valuably spent moving on.
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Old 11-06-06, 03:45 PM
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I'm shocked when I see another cyclist let alone one that needs help.
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Old 11-06-06, 03:48 PM
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Idiots are one thing, but I do always offer my services whenever I spot a fellow traveler in trouble.

However this reminds me of an incident about 6 months ago with a co-worker.

He bikes daily... his home is about 3 miles from the office. He was leaving one night and was having trouble because his tire was low. I offered my pump. The guy had nothing... no pump, no patch kit and his bike looked like something you would pick up at a garage sale for $10. The tires and chain were just in horrible shape. After no luck with the pump (he had a slow but steady leak) I suggested that there was a bike shop within a short walking distance and perhaps he should get a new tire. (He needed a tire, not just a tube).

Nope, he struggled off on the low tire for home... pretty much ignoring my advise and seemingly not caring.

Oh well.
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Old 11-06-06, 04:09 PM
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There's a difference between stopping to help someone whose gear cr@pped out, versus offering to help someone (still mobile) that just made a poor equipment choice.

Last week, I stopped on my way home to help some racer girl who flatted out on a training ride. I didn't have any spare tubes that would fit her gear since I ride a MTB, but I stopped to see if everything was OK... and it wasn't. She didn't know how to use her new CO2 inflator and managed to bust the stem on her only tube. (No spare, she'd just patched the one that flatted.) It was getting dark and cold, and she had no phone, so I let her use mine to call for a ride.

On the way in to work a few days later, there was the same guy I pass routinely: No reflectors, no lights, dark clothes, no helmet. It's his call to ride like that, and I don't feel obligated to slow down and help light his way. I'm sure that if he really wanted a light, he'd spend the $10 and get an inexpensive one.

In distress: I'll stop and help.
Just plain don't care: I don't care, either.
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Old 11-06-06, 04:41 PM
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There's a difference between stopping to help someone whose gear cr@pped out, versus offering to help someone (still mobile) that just made a poor equipment choice.
I would say that, unless you ask, it's entirely possible that the lightless person was one of those folks whose "gear cr@pped out". Maybe he has a broken LED headlight in his pocket.

I wouldn't help somebody out if they didn't want it, but I wouldn't be too quick to assume things about people who ride bikes in the dark without lights. People have the perception that bikes are sold with reflectors because reflectors work. People who don't ride every day are likely to assume that inconvenience and cost outweigh the benefits of having lights in addition to reflectors for irregular night-time use. Those of us who ride all the time and have regularly heard about, and maybe seen, the results of riding without lighting can't fault everybody else for not knowing what we know.

Although this underscores the fact that I think new bikes should be sold without a front-center reflector, and front reflectors should be sold with a warning that says that "car headlights will rarely light the reflector up enough for it to be of any use, so buy a light or several, okay?"
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Old 11-06-06, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by cerewa
I would say that, unless you ask, it's entirely possible that the lightless person was one of those folks whose "gear cr@pped out". Maybe he has a broken LED headlight in his pocket.
The guy that I pass a few times a week... He's not carrying a broken light in his pocket. He's just rollin' stealth. I've seen him at least a couple dozen times, and he's always in stealth mode; no matter if he's on the MUP, the sidewalk, or the street. No lights, nothing reflective, and dark clothes.
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Old 11-06-06, 05:23 PM
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I have road up on a guy at 10:20 at night. He had no tail or head light. I stayed behind him for a while so he could see. Then when he turned off I pick up the pace. We stoped at a stop light and I told him that I could not see him, so I know the cars could not as well. Then told him that he really need to get some lights and where to get them.
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Old 11-06-06, 05:25 PM
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Well, first, I'm really glad there are people like you out there. It's great that you try to help others. I've not had problems yet, but if I did, I know I'd be really grateful for someone with know-how (I have little, though I'm never far from a gas station/place to call a taxi).

However, I don't blame you at for not going out of your way to help him...maybe it's that I'm female and we always have that extra "is this a creep?" cautionary thing going on in our heads, but his whole outfit seems weird to me...and it sounds like you couldn't even see his face.

I definitely err on the side of "no worries" and am not scared of much - certainly no one has ever accused me of being a rule follower and I scoff at a good deal of cautionary advice - but even as a new commuter I can't imagine what people riding without lights and in dark clothes can possibly be thinking...if it had been me and my lights had given out or something, I'd probably have asked if I could follow if I saw someone like you...but there again, maybe guys have a harder time asking each other for help? :-)
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Old 11-06-06, 05:27 PM
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Generally, I would say that we have an obligation to our fellow cyclists. But that obligation should never trump our personal safety. So I'll stop but I pay attention to my spidey sense. If there's any reason to feel hinky about the situation, keep moving.
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Old 11-06-06, 06:13 PM
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I have to admit, that when I started cycling, I didnt know about the light thing. I bought a very cheap light to start with, when I realized I couldnt see at all on the mup without one, and figured that having a hard time seeing was just part of the bargain. I then found this website and started reading about cycling and quickly changed my mind. I stopped riding late until I made my own lights. Honestly, I think a lot of people just dont know how much danger they are in. Sadly, people often dont like to be told things and get defensive when it happens, so telling them could cause some problems. If you feel comfortable letting the person know how hard it is to see them, do it, but if they have an axe strapped to their back, I suggest passing quickly and letting them make their own way.
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