Minor Knee Troubles, Need Advice
 

Hey guys, I need some advice, recently(this week) my right knee has started to bother me a bit when I'm trying to push my pace. My seat seems at the correct height (my leg, when the peddle is all the way at the bottom is nearly straight) I have a hybrid 21 speed, and I only bike in high gear, with a mostly level 16mile RT. Should I start using lower gears for some of the hills, is there some other setting on my bike besides seat height that I should look at, is there some sort of knee stretch I should know about, or should I just bus it into work for a week or two and hope its only a temporary issue? Tonight I'm icing it even though it dosnt hurt anymore, figure it can't hurt (hopefully)

You might find some tips in this article on knee pain.

I have found that my feet should be angled out to approximate my natural walking gait. If I don't do this I sometimes get a little twinge in one knee or the other, not any real pain, but a wake-up call, to let me know something is amiss.

Could be a number of issues:

1. Tight IT Band?
2. Do you use clipless pedals, if so has you cleat moved? If not, is the cleat in the correct position?
3. Does the pain change if you pedal with your heel angled out or angled in?
4. Do you have the correct knee over pedal setup?
5. Does the pain occur at high or low cadences?

There are a number of other qestions that could be asked.......

1. Tight IT Band?
I dont think so, Im not the most flexible guy ever, but I do a few lower body streches before the ride

2. Do you use clipless pedals, if so has you cleat moved? If not, is the cleat in the correct position?
What ever came with the bike, so just normal shoes on the pedals

3. Does the pain change if you pedal with your heel angled out or angled in?
It's only an infrequent pain so maybe?

4. Do you have the correct knee over pedal setup?
No idea

5. Does the pain occur at high or low cadences?
Initially it occurs on a hill, but after that if it re-occurs, only at high cadences

Your probably pushing too high of a gear. You're allowed to shift, bud. ;)

It could have something to do with cold weather, too. Do you have a couple of layers over your knees in winter weather?

Ripped off from Sheldon Brown's website:

K.O.P.S. (Knee Over Pedal Spindle)
This refers to a popular fitting theory that states: When the cranks are horizontal, a plumb line straight down from the front of the rider's front knee should intersect the spindle of the pedal. This condition is achieved by adjusting the front/back position of the saddle.
This approach is quite popular with racing coaches, but it is by no means clear that this is a good setup for general cycling. Many recreational riders prefer a more rearward saddle position than this, with the extreme case being the recumbent position.

Here's the link to an article about KOPS on his site.

I find I get knee trouble with poor cleat alignment and sometimes I get it for no apparent reason. I usually make sure I'm riding a high cadence, try not to ride too hard, use ibuprofen three times a day with food for a week, and I'm all better.

Wow, thanks for all the help guys, I'll look into my knee petal setup, and maybe even downshift on some of the tougher uphills I hit, hopefully that clears it up.

Well, you said your leg was nearly straight in the down stroke and that's not correct. As a rule of thumb, your leg would be straigt with your heel on the peddle, which would put a slight bend when the ball of your foot is on the peddle. Then, you'd adjust the additional height according to the thickness of the sole of the shoe. However, for me, if the saddle is too high (possible your situation), I get pulled hamstrings.

If you put your saddle at the correct height, but it just feels like it's too low, then your saddle probably is too far forward (so simple and yet I just learned that in the latest Bicycling magazine after years and droping a weighted line from my patella to check its relationship to the peddle spindle). Most times, all of these corrections are just small adjustments.

Additional to that, I'd say practice spinning instead of pushing higher gears. :)

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/pain

Sheldon "Spin, Don't Lug" Brown

Since we have the same bikes purchased from the same dealer, my first guess is raise the saddle and perhaps move it back to get to the KOPS position, then experiment from there.

And yes, it's okay to downshift to climb Cobbs Hill, Pinnacle Hill and crossing Irondequoit Creek. :) Same thing when cranking into the winds we've had lately. I loved the wind shift today. Headwind in both directions of my commute while crossing Cobbs Hill.

Give me a shout sometime and we'll meet up and go riding.

Aside from the positioning changes suggested. I found stretching at least every other day or so helped. I haven't noticed any problems since I started doing it regularly. I just extend my legs and grab my feet for 10 or 20 seconds. Made a world of difference.
They say always before excercise, but I never could get into a regular morning routine.

Another possibility is float, the small amount of twisting that your foot does on the pedal. With clipless pedals or smooth platform pedals your foot can rotate a little on each pedal stroke. With a platform pedal with a claw like serrated edge, your foot is locked and can't twist as easily Even more so if you are pedaling with a high torque. I got a new bike last February with the claw like platform pedals and my knees started hurting within a week.

I get knee pain sometimes, too. Nothing bad, but it's noticeable. I talked to a colleague, who's an avid roadie and a fan of Lance Armstrong. He always talks about cadence, and how high Lance's is. He also said that that changes cycling from a sport about strong legs to an aerobic challenge. I bought a cyclecomputer that has cadence measurement, and have since tried to keep my cadence above 75. I can't do it on the hills, but at least I know what my goal is. But, on the flats, I definitely operate in a lower gear and keep my cadence up.

Sorry to gab so much--bottom line--my knee pain and some back pain I have has noticeably decreased. Increase your cadence!!!

I sometimes get knee pain after I push hard in higher gears too much. It has been bad enough at times to prevent me climbing the stairs very easily. When that happens, I ease off and it goes away by the next day.

I like to push the high gears sometimes as part of building strength, but I watch for signs of knee pain.

It would be great if this were a sticky to help all with leg problems.

http://www.cptips.com/knee.htm

JOE, HOW 'BOUT IT? PLEASE MAKE THIS URL A STICKY!!:D

so I actually tried 'shifting' today, and that seemed to help, but the majority of the time it hurts is the ride home, so I'll know for sure later. Also, is standing for the uphill stretchs bad? I generally do to get a bit more force in my pedaling.

What is your pedaling cadence? You should aim for at least 80 rpm working at an aerobic rate (ie breathing deeply but not gasping) with a fairly light force. Pick a gear which gives this effect. Many newbies push too high a gear, this is bad for your knees and does not make you fitter.

Stretching is good, especially stretching the quadriceps. They attach to your knee cap. Residual tension in the quadriceps puts unecessary tension on the knee cap. There are various web sites with stretches, or you can get a book. I especially like by Bob Anderson's book.

Also, make sure you are in fact extending your leg when pedalling. Avoid pointing your toes down such that your knees are unecessarily bent.

Does your knee only hurt while riding? What activities do you also feel your knee pain while doing? Where in your knee does it hurt (inside, outside, front, back, top, bottom, right, left, etc.)? Which knee is it?

It'll occasionally hurt during/after a game of Ultimate, it hurts under the knee cap and slightly to the inside of the leg.

I'm going to do an extra stretch or two before the ride home tonight, and start learning the basics of shifting, especially for the first hill right outside of the job which is where it normally hurts, prob. from not being warmed up enough yet.

Hmm.

Try stretching your glutes. Sit down and cross your legs "manly man" style (we coined that term in the stretching class at massage school), with one ankle over the opposite knee. Gently lean forward. You should feel a stretch in the glute of the leg which is crossed. If you don't, change the angle of how you crossed your legs.

Hold a very light stretch for 3 seconds, release, repeat 3-10 times.

Doing the glute stretch in addition to the quadriceps stretches (flamingo stretch) should fix you right up. If not, post again!

awsome, a little extra stretching, downshifting to keep my cadence up, and not even a twinge this time, thanks for the help guys

A friend of mine added one of those pedal extender adapters on one side and that solved his hurting knee problem. I was surprised that a 20-30 mm change made that big of a difference. But if it works, then the $50 bucks was worth it. He had went to several shops to recheck the fitting too...no changes were made/recommended.