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Dyno-hub Headlight Questions

Old 12-14-06, 08:59 AM
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sauerwald
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Dyno-hub Headlight Questions

My commuter has a dyno-hub to which generates power for a B&M Oval Plus headlamp, as well as a B&M fender mounted tail light. This is my backup lighting, with the primary light coming from a Li Ion battery powered headlamp (Cygolite DualCross 300), and battery powered tail lights. I am considering replacing the Oval Plus headlamp with something else. The things that I don't like about the oval-plus is that it seems to go through bulbs rather quickly (I am on my third this season) and there are admonitions of not turning the light on when the bulb is burnt out as it can permanenetly damage the headlamp. When the headlamp is turned off, then I lose the tail-light as well. Does anybody know of a reasonably bright LED based headlamp that can be powered by my Nexus hub?
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Old 12-14-06, 09:20 AM
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Peter White Cycles offers a Busch & Mueller LED headlight (https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt-lumotec.asp) that's meant to be powered by a hub dynamo.

Would a different, better quality hub like the Shimano 3N-71 or the Schmidt offer better current regulation than your Nexus hub? Both of these are supposed to be lighter and more durable than your Nexus, and offer less rolling resistance.
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Old 12-14-06, 09:37 AM
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I have a Schmidt hub and B+M OvalPlus and I only go through about 1 bulb a year. This isn´t bad as I have the headlight on for between and hour and an hour and a half every weekday in autumn(=fall)/winter.
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Old 12-14-06, 09:38 AM
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Peter White also sells Inoled. Solidlights are well regarded in the UK. There's another brand with a new light but I forget the name.
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Old 12-14-06, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Erick L
Peter White also sells Inoled. Solidlights are well regarded in the UK. There's another brand with a new light but I forget the name.
If you don't necessarily like the price of the solid lights here is one you can make yourself, PM me if you want more details (Incidentally I am no longer using Luxeon IIIs but K2s (with 3 degree spots and one 4X14 oval lense for be seen light) as they are brighter, also make sure you get a buckpuck that handles an amp, up to 32 volts, and allows strobe applications)-




The whole package is extremely light if you use aluminum angle stock for the heatsink, and I find that if I put one side of the heatsink sides at a slight angle I get a beam shape very similar to the E6. I use this with my shimano 3n71 hub so I am sure it would work with your nexus.
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Old 12-14-06, 12:35 PM
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I use two 3 watt luxeons and a bridge rectifier but no buck puck. I found one 3 watt led wasn't really bright enough. Apparently the good dyno hubs can supply 6 watts once you get going at a moderate speed, I use the ultegra level shimano hub.

I mounted the leds in small sections of an old seat post with alu plate at the back to act as a heat sink. The led lens is then epoxied into the open end to hold everything in place.
Then old cateye mounting bands where used to attach the seat post sections to a B&M headlight mount.

With plenty of cold air flow very little heat sinking is needed. Mine have never even felt warm to the touch when used on the bike.

One problem with this setup is the optics are not tailored for bicycle use. Proper bike lights make efficient use of the available light by focusing it only where needed. The led lenses do not do that and also light up the sky and tops of hedgerows.


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Old 12-14-06, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by sauerwald
My commuter has a dyno-hub to which generates power for a B&M Oval Plus headlamp, as well as a B&M fender mounted tail light. This is my backup lighting, with the primary light coming from a Li Ion battery powered headlamp (Cygolite DualCross 300), and battery powered tail lights. I am considering replacing the Oval Plus headlamp with something else. The things that I don't like about the oval-plus is that it seems to go through bulbs rather quickly (I am on my third this season) and there are admonitions of not turning the light on when the bulb is burnt out as it can permanenetly damage the headlamp. When the headlamp is turned off, then I lose the tail-light as well. Does anybody know of a reasonably bright LED based headlamp that can be powered by my Nexus hub?
It's odd that you are going through that many lights in a year. I've got the same setup on two bikes and have only gone through one light between the both in the last year and a half.
Are you sure that your rig is wired correctly? If you have your leads crossed it may explain why you are going through bulbs.
As for your tail light, you could directly wire it to the hub and then run the headlight leads off from it. The tail light would always turn on when the bike was in motion, and the on/off switch would only effect the headlight.

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Old 12-14-06, 01:08 PM
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The Buckpuck helps to stabalize the current and keeps you from overdriving the LEDs. The lenses I used are 3 degree spots and I find they focus really well but still do spill some light which is handy as it lets me see road signs. I like a certain amount of spill. I think my HID spills too much so I actually prefer the LED setup I have. That fork mount implentation is pretty cool. I might have to cook up something like that if I ever make my wheel useable on my mountain bike.
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Old 12-14-06, 01:53 PM
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I have been using a Lumotec headlight and taillight combo with a nexus dynamo front hub for over three years with no bulb outages (boy, I shouldn't have said that --it'll probably fail tonight). I have a switch suspended between top and down tubes near the headtube that switches them out. I only need them during the winter months. But never had a problem.
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Old 12-14-06, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by AllenG
It's odd that you are going through that many lights in a year. I've got the same setup on two bikes and have only gone through one light between the both in the last year and a half.
Are you sure that your rig is wired correctly? If you have your leads crossed it may explain why you are going through bulbs.
As for your tail light, you could directly wire it to the hub and then run the headlight leads off from it. The tail light would always turn on when the bike was in motion, and the on/off switch would only effect the headlight.

--A
I tend to lose the bulbs on cold mornings - the last one went on a morning where the temp was 19F, that and the terrible state of our roads makes for more shock. I used to have the light mounted at the fork crown, and now it is on the fork blade, about half way down. I think that I am going through more bulbs with it in this lower position.

I do like the idea of wiring the tail light directly - and will probably do that, although I will check to see if the tail light can take AC directly from the hub, or if the Oval Plus is rectifying it for me....
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Old 12-14-06, 07:50 PM
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I have mine mounted at the crown on one and the handlebars on the other frame. More shock is probably never a good thing to a bulb's life expetency.

It's my understanding the led can handle being first in line to the hub. The front light just controls its on/off position.

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Old 12-14-06, 09:52 PM
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I am wondering : do you have a wired in taillight? Is it a 2.4 W or a 3 W bulb that you have?

If you have a wired in taillight, you should have a 2.4 W bulb in the headlight. A 3 W bulb would work and last a long long time, but would be yellowish. On the other hand, if you don't have a wired in taillight, you should have a 3 W bulb. If you happen to have a 2.4 W bulb, you'll burn it very quickly. I also suspect that turning on the light at high speed isn't too good on the bulb (not mortal, however).

Bulbs are supposed to last 100 hours, and I have no problems getting 100-150 hours with Lumotec round and oval headlights. No data on the Schmidt yet.

P.S. I ride year round and we do have lots and lots of potholes.
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Old 12-14-06, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by sauerwald
I tend to lose the bulbs on cold mornings - the last one went on a morning where the temp was 19F, that and the terrible state of our roads makes for more shock. I used to have the light mounted at the fork crown, and now it is on the fork blade, about half way down. I think that I am going through more bulbs with it in this lower position.
I've been told that halogen bulbs in general are pretty sensitive to vibration and/or shock. Halfway down the fork blade might result in more shock and vibration than on the fork crown. The fork crown mounting point seems to give a better beam pattern, too.
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Old 12-17-07, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by d_D View Post
Proper bike lights make efficient use of the available light by focusing it only where needed. The led lenses do not do that and also light up the sky and tops of hedgerows.
I just received my Fenix L2D Premium light, and this is so true. It's a great light, but the beam lights up the overhead road lane signs, for example. I don't see many cars doing that. I wonder how good it would be with proper reflector design for bike use (as in Lumotec lights, for example).

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Old 01-15-08, 11:21 AM
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*bump*

I just got an email from my LBS showcasing the new SuperNova E3 LED dynohub light.
60 lux and 100,000 hour bulb life. You can run them tandem on any dynohub w/o voltage limiters and rack up 120 lux of lighting.
It's an LED light so it reaches full brightness at only 4mph (single) or 8mph (dual lamps).

They're a bit cost prohibitive compared to other dyno lamps. Where a SON E6 is expensive at around $110 each, the SuperNova E3 is around double that cost. However, check out the comparative light output!

https://www.supernova-lights.com/en/p...3_english.html
https://www.velociped.ch/docs/Dynamo-...leich_2008.pdf

I was steering away from dynohub lighting and looking at long-life Li-on battery setups for distance night rides and commuting, but with the 4 min standlight feature and the option for a 180 degree visibility 3-LED tail light, I think dyno lights just entered back into the running. The overall investment cost of a SON28 hub, 2 E3 lights and the 3-LED tail light will easily balance the lifetime costs of a super-bright (800 lumens) Li-on battery setup.
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Old 01-15-08, 11:53 AM
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B&M have just launched a new LED based frontlight called "Lumotec IQ Fly". It is rated at 40 Lux which is more than twice the output of the Oval plus light you have now (rated at 17 Lux). I paid 70€ for mine.

Regarding blown halogen bulbs. To my knowledge almost all halogen bulbs are very sensitive to contamination, so one should never touch the bulbs with bare fingers, but always handle them with a clean cloth or similar. Surface contamination of halogen bulbs can seriously reduce their lifespan.

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Old 01-15-08, 11:57 AM
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Surface contamination of halogen bulbs can seriously reduce their lifespan.
That's interesting to hear, and potentially explains a lot. But sheesh, my halo bulb is *always* quoted w/ road crap. You're saying licking my thumb and using that to clear it off some is not the way to go, I take it...

Starting yesterday grabbing my wife's headlight which I thought was fully charged and finding it dead (lying fallow in the garage for a week or 2 not great for the charge, apparently) got me thinking dynohub again. Think think think. But I am big on inertia.
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Old 01-15-08, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by interested View Post
B&M have just launched a new LED based frontlight called "Lumotec IQ Fly". It is rated at 40 Lux which is more than twice the output of the Oval plus light you have now (rated at 17 Lux). I paid 70€ for mine.
Check the velociped link in my above post to see the E3 compared to the IQ Fly. The IQ Fly has most halogen lamps beat hands down, but it's got nothing on the E3 (except price. Holy monkeys, is that sucker expensive! 170.00 EUR list price)
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Old 01-15-08, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by CliftonGK1 View Post
*bump*

I just got an email from my LBS showcasing the new SuperNova E3 LED dynohub light.
60 lux and 100,000 hour bulb life. You can run them tandem on any dynohub w/o voltage limiters and rack up 120 lux of lighting.
It's an LED light so it reaches full brightness at only 4mph (single) or 8mph (dual lamps).

They're a bit cost prohibitive compared to other dyno lamps. Where a SON E6 is expensive at around $110 each, the SuperNova E3 is around double that cost. However, check out the comparative light output!

https://www.supernova-lights.com/en/p...3_english.html
https://www.velociped.ch/docs/Dynamo-...leich_2008.pdf

I was steering away from dynohub lighting and looking at long-life Li-on battery setups for distance night rides and commuting, but with the 4 min stand light feature and the option for a 180 degree visibility 3-LED tail light, I think dyno lights just entered back into the running. The overall investment cost of a SON28 hub, 2 E3 lights and the 3-LED tail light will easily balance the lifetime costs of a super-bright (800 lumens) Li-on battery setup.
I use the Supernova Led headlight and like it very much. It replaced 2 E6's on my commuter bike. I got it last year prior to exchange rates being what they are. It was $130. It works very well. I have the old model with no stand light. I also did not by the taillight. I also run a Schmidt hub. One thing to consider with the Schmidt hub is whether or not you ever see yourself using it with a disc brake in the future. The hub I ordered is disc compatible so if I add a front disc I am ready. Runnig a disc also lengthens the wheel's life as it eliminates the rim side wall wear especially if you commute in wet weather. Attached is a pic of it on my winter bike. I would recommend the light and the hub.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 01-15-08, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by fender1 View Post
I use the Supernova Led headlight and like it very much. It replaced 2 E6's on my commuter bike. I got it last year prior to exchange rates being what they are. It was $130. It works very well. I have the old model with no stand light. I also did not by the taillight. I also run a Schmidt hub. One thing to consider with the Schmidt hub is whether or not you ever see yourself using it with a disc brake in the future. The hub I ordered is disc compatible so if I add a front disc I am ready. Runnig a disc also lengthens the wheel's life as it eliminates the rim side wall wear especially if you commute in wet weather. Attached is a pic of it on my winter bike. I would recommend the light and the hub.
I don't see myself ever moving to disc braking, so I'm just going with the standard SON28 hub. My commute takes me on some unlit, winding long downhills over not-so-great roads. I'm definitely interested in running a dual E3 setup, especially now that they have a handlebar mount which I can use to mount the lights out front of my $7 Nashbar front rack. (A piece of 1/2" ID PVC and a couple of clamps, and you've got a handy light-mount on any rack. I'm using that setup to hold dual PB Superflash lights on my rear rack now.)
Glad to know that the E3 is as strong a light as those comparison photos make it out to be. I looked up specs on the Seoul P4 LED, and it puts out 240 lumens according to the manufacturer. That's fairly low compared to lights like the Dinotte 600L, but the lux rating (lumens/m^2) is higher over the general beam pattern. It's that focusing that really gives it the strength, since there's very little scattered light.
I think a dual E3 setup will light the road up at least as well at any 600 lumen battery-powered setup, without the wasted light.
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Old 01-15-08, 01:24 PM
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Where did you hear that you can run 2 headlghts? I talked to Supernova when I got mine and they said you could only run 1 E3 w/ dyno hub.
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Old 01-15-08, 01:29 PM
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I'm going to have to track one of those E3s down.

As for hubs and brakes, I love my SA dyno with built-in drum brake. Mainly because I'm on an old ('72) Schwinn with stainless rims that are horrible to brake on when wet.
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Old 01-15-08, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by fender1 View Post
Where did you hear that you can run 2 headlghts? I talked to Supernova when I got mine and they said you could only run 1 E3 w/ dyno hub.
https://www.nova-factory.com/store_en.htm

The E3 is compatible with all standard 6V dynamos, not with the Dymotec S12, FER SD12 and other 12V dynamos.Two serially connected E3s work with the Dymotec S12 and the FER and any 6V dynamo without any voltage limiting electronics (can be removed from modern Shimano dynamos, for example). With two E3s on a 6V dynamo, you will get a max. light output of 120 Lux, but only at a speed of ca. 8 mph.
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Old 01-15-08, 02:29 PM
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I might be misunderstanding the electronics of the setup, though. (Bio-engineer, not EE) I know that it's possible to run dual SON E6 lights on a single hub dyno.
Can someone with more EE knowledge explain the difference between that setup (an E6 primary and secondary light) vs. why 2 Supernova E3 lamps might/would not work with a SON28 hub?
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Old 01-15-08, 03:34 PM
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Gregor Arndt at SuperNova just wrote me back saying that dual E3 lights will work serially with a SON28 hub, but not reach peak brightness until 8mph as opposed to the 4mph of a single light. He also suggested that a single E3 light is extraordinarily bright all by itself and a second is not typically necessary as with a lower lux lamp.
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