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Overly aggressive and angry driver this morning; I just kept on riding.

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Overly aggressive and angry driver this morning; I just kept on riding.

Old 12-19-06, 09:46 AM
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Sawtooth
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Overly aggressive and angry driver this morning; I just kept on riding.

OK, I admit it, I filter. I have no problem with it but it seems to bother about 1/1000 people. This morning I filtered up the Right hand side of a left hand turn lane and turned left on the right side of the line of cars. At no time was I ever in anyone's way or slowed them down in the least bit. Unless someone was trying to hit me or dialing a cell phone I was in no additional danger at all. Well, I guess someone was trying to hit me because a van swerved out wide and rode my tail through the radius of the turn, then he buzzed me and cut in front of me and stopped and screamed something at me about getting killed. Despite my primal urge to engage the Butthole, I simply kept on riding.

The way I see it, if someone just yells at you from a moving car, they are passively engaging you and may be in for a bit of fun verbal exchanges, but if they ride your tail, buzz you, cut you off and then pull over and stop to yell at you they are operating at a whole different level of aggression. Those types of drivers should simply be avoided, not engaged in return. Who knows what they might do.

Last edited by Sawtooth; 12-19-06 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 12-19-06, 10:17 AM
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they're probally just sad that their wife divorced them over his penis size
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Old 12-19-06, 10:23 AM
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In NY state what you just described is against the law, don't know about Idaho though. Here you have to stay to the right side of the right most lane (unless there is a bike lane, then you have to be in that) except for left turns, at which point your still supposed to be to the right side or center, of the turn lane, and after turning, you need to move back to the right side of the right lane as soon as possible. Also, when coming to intersections, your allowed to take the middle of the lane for safety reasons.
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Old 12-19-06, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by squegeeboo
In NY state what you just described is against the law, don't know about Idaho though. Here you have to stay to the right side of the right most lane (unless there is a bike lane, then you have to be in that) except for left turns, at which point your still supposed to be to the right side or center, of the turn lane, and after turning, you need to move back to the right side of the right lane as soon as possible. Also, when coming to intersections, your allowed to take the middle of the lane for safety reasons.
I disagree with your interpretation. Here's what the law actually says:
Section 1234. Riding on roadways, shoulders, bicycle lanes and bicycle paths.
(a) Upon all roadways, any bicycle shall be driven either on a usable bicycle lane or, if a usable bicycle lane has not been provided, near the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway or upon a usable right- hand shoulder in such a manner as to prevent undue interference with the flow of traffic except when preparing for a left turn or when reasonably necessary to avoid conditions that would make it unsafe to continue along near the right-hand curb or edge. Conditions to be taken into consideration include, but are not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards or traffic lanes too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane.
New York has one of the most restrictive laws in the nation, but you are allowed to leave the right side of the roadway for a variety of reasons: "fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards or traffic lanes too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane." One of those reasons is "vehicles" and another is "traffic lanes too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane." It's not only legal to leave the right side of the roadway to pass a slower vehicle, it's required -- bicycles are subject to the same laws as other vehicles, and vehicles must pass on the left.

By contrast, here's what much more liberal DC law says:
A person operating a bicycle may overtake and pass other vehicles on the left or right side, staying in the same lane as the overtaken vehicle, or changing to a different lane, or riding off the roadway, as necessary to pass with safety.
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Old 12-19-06, 10:59 AM
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Touche sir.
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Old 12-19-06, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by squegeeboo
In NY state what you just described is against the law, don't know about Idaho though. Here you have to stay to the right side of the right most lane (unless there is a bike lane, then you have to be in that) except for left turns, at which point your still supposed to be to the right side or center, of the turn lane, and after turning, you need to move back to the right side of the right lane as soon as possible. Also, when coming to intersections, your allowed to take the middle of the lane for safety reasons.
Oops. Good catch. You are right. I should have said I filtered up the RIGHT side of the LEFT turn lane and then turned LEFT on the RIGHT side of the line of cars. I have edited the original post.
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Old 12-19-06, 11:27 AM
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I do this to, but I'm always on the right side of the turn lane(s). I wouldn't be surprised if someone was annoyed by it, but that's their problem.

I'm pretty calm up until the point where a driver intentionally cuts me off/ blocks me. If that happened, then they chose to stop in front of me there would likely be a confrontation.
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Old 12-19-06, 11:46 AM
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What makes most drivers angrier:

1. A cyclist splitting lanes and passing them.

2. Another car in front of them going 59.9 km/hr in a 60 km/hr zone and then stopping at a yellow light?

Hence, what the law actually says has little relevance in relation to these "motorist blew a fuse" threads. We Always discuss the applicable laws anyways, but I'm not sure it's relevant.
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Old 12-19-06, 11:52 AM
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Good job on the non-confrontation. I was stopped the other day by a guy that wanted to argue. I just said yep, got it, yep, etc. for a couple of minutes. Finally, I said: I'm not going to argue with you, and he went on his way. It seems to get easier and easier to hit the metaphorical ignore button and go about my business.
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Old 12-19-06, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ghettocruiser
What makes most drivers angrier:

1. A cyclist splitting lanes and passing them.

2. Another car in front of them going 59.9 km/hr in a 60 km/hr zone and then stopping at a yellow light?

Hence, what the law actually says has little relevance in relation to these "motorist blew a fuse" threads. We Always discuss the applicable laws anyways, but I'm not sure it's relevant.
Good point... here's a real dichotomy in the laws, regarding freeways: Posted speed limit is say 65MPH, but traffic is moving at 75MPH... so do you violate the posted speed limit and keep up with traffic... after all it is also illegal to impede traffic?
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Old 12-19-06, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ghettocruiser
What makes most drivers angrier:

1. A cyclist splitting lanes and passing them.

2. Another car in front of them going 59.9 km/hr in a 60 km/hr zone and then stopping at a yellow light?

Hence, what the law actually says has little relevance in relation to these "motorist blew a fuse" threads. We Always discuss the applicable laws anyways, but I'm not sure it's relevant.
The law isn't relevant. Human nature for most people is to find something they dislike (in this case, cyclists) and then try to come up with "reasons" to justify it. Hence you get some drivers losing their temper over lane-splitting, lane-claiming or (more often) just the mere fact that there is a bicycle on the road, and then trying to claim that it's "illegal". I take the approach that if they're bothered by something as inconsequential as a bicycle on the road, I'll pity them, but I won't let it interfere with my lawful and peaceful use of the road. In this respect, I too believe in simply riding on regardless.

Where the law becomes relevant in these situations, is if you encounter one of these morons who happens to have a police badge.
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Old 12-19-06, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris L
The law isn't relevant. Human nature for most people is to find something they dislike (in this case, cyclists) and then try to come up with "reasons" to justify it. Hence you get some drivers losing their temper over lane-splitting, lane-claiming or (more often) just the mere fact that there is a bicycle on the road, and then trying to claim that it's "illegal". I take the approach that if they're bothered by something as inconsequential as a bicycle on the road, I'll pity them, but I won't let it interfere with my lawful and peaceful use of the road. In this respect, I too believe in simply riding on regardless.
+1 on that. I recently read a blog entry from a guy who said that the two things that annoy him about bicycles are when they are going slower than him in front of him, and when he's stuck in traffic and they're passing him. Don't like them slower, don't like them faster -- when do you like them?
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Old 12-19-06, 10:08 PM
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As a footnote to my earlier comment, I had a motorist honk and scream at me from behind on the way home tonight for *taking the lane*.

The lane I was *taking* was designated for bus and bicycle use only.

Law = Irrelevant
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Old 12-19-06, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
Good point... here's a real dichotomy in the laws, regarding freeways: Posted speed limit is say 65MPH, but traffic is moving at 75MPH... so do you violate the posted speed limit and keep up with traffic... after all it is also illegal to impede traffic?

I hear this argument brought up all the time, but it just doesnt make any sense. Your not impeding traffic, traffic can still mvoe behind you at 65 mph, the current speed limit. It also can safely pass you in the passing lane, and with only a 10mph difference, it has plenty of time to move into that lane as it approaches you slowly at only 10 mph.

And yeah, I know your talking tongue in cheek, but I hear this ALL THE TIME completely seriously.
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Old 12-20-06, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Sawtooth
...and screamed something at me about getting killed.
I hear that a lot as a cop. People call in all the time about adults doing things that might "get themselves killed." Personally, I never understood it why people get so upset over it. Classic example is motorcyclists doing wheelies and such in empty, private parking lots. Who cares if THEY get THEMSELVES killed? I kind of have the same thing with guy/guys who recently got himself/themselves killed on Mt. Hood. You want to mountain climb? Go right ahead, but I won't bat an eye when you die doing something dangerous as a hobby.

I guess it is a perspective issue. I have seen a lot of people killed that were doing anything at all to bring on their fate.
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Old 12-20-06, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by deputyjones
I hear that a lot as a cop. People call in all the time about adults doing things that might "get themselves killed." Personally, I never understood it why people get so upset over it. Classic example is motorcyclists doing wheelies and such in empty, private parking lots. Who cares if THEY get THEMSELVES killed? I kind of have the same thing with guy/guys who recently got himself/themselves killed on Mt. Hood. You want to mountain climb? Go right ahead, but I won't bat an eye when you die doing something dangerous as a hobby.

I guess it is a perspective issue. I have seen a lot of people killed that were doing anything at all to bring on their fate.


Edit: I don't filter in left turn lanes. In left turn lanes, I take the middle of the lane and wait in line. I do this to improve my odds at being seen. I'm alone in the lane, not masked by the car next to me. Don't know if it matters, but it feels right to me.

+1

People should mind their own business. For the same reason, I hate all the laws requiring people to do things "for their own safety". I'm talking about mandatory seat belt wearing and motorcycle helmet wearing. I think laws and law enforcement should be about making sure I don't ef up the other guy and he doesn't ef me up. If he wants to drive without a seatbelt and get killed, that's his problem.

While I'm ranting, I might as well say I don't see any problem with filtering as long as you don't try to merge with traffic after the light changes. If you are going to take the lane when riding, then don't filter. I usually ride in the right gutter so I go ahead and filter up the right side at stop lights. It used to annoy me when I lived in San Jose that motorcycles would filter between lanes when traffic was stopped and then merge back into the lane when traffic started moving. Trying to have it both ways just annoys the other users of the road.

Edit: I don't filter in left turn lanes. I take the middle of the lane and wait in line. I do this to improve my odds at being seen. I'm alone in the lane, not masked by adjacent cars.

Last edited by squeakywheel; 12-20-06 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 12-20-06, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by squeakywheel

People should mind their own business. For the same reason, I hate all the laws requiring people to do things "for their own safety". I'm talking about mandatory seat belt wearing and motorcycle helmet wearing. I think laws and law enforcement should be about making sure I don't ef up the other guy and he doesn't ef me up. If he wants to drive without a seatbelt and get killed, that's his problem.
Getting killed is not the problem. It's ending up with brain damage in a nursing home. Then when all your assets are drained you go to a medicaid bed. Then it's our problem.

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Old 12-20-06, 11:06 AM
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It's against the law in Idaho. I think it's dangerous to filter between cars. I filter to the right, and if I have to make a left hand turn, wait in line with the rest of the "vehicles".

Where in Boise was this?
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Old 12-20-06, 11:16 AM
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I wait in line for left turns too.

The one place where drivers always gets very close to curb or well into shoulder or bike lane is when there are dual left turn lanes, drivers in the outer lane always turn wide. Always. I see this everyday. (I know the case here is single left lane, but just wanted to note this, as even with single turn lane going into single lane, they may overshoot too, but this situation is nonexistant here.)

Al
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Old 12-20-06, 12:27 PM
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Whether or not the OP did anything right or wrong in traffic could be debated indefinitely. I support and encourage your self-control to simply keep riding. You'll never know what you may have avoided by doing so, and the urge to be defensive or combative is so strong. No matter how fumed the driver was, they likely were distracted by something else only minutes later, and I doubt they're dwelling on the incident. You shouldn't either.
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Old 12-20-06, 12:55 PM
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I take a little different approach than most. Because I enjoy my ride I am not in a hurry to show that bike commuting is as effective as racing to the next intersection by most car drivers. As a result, I keep my place in line on the right side of the road when there is no bike lane. I don't try to move to the front of the line so that they can all pass me on the way to the next light so that I can then run up along side of them at the next light and on and on. Yup, gotta a lot of lights on a major portion of my commute.

I do the same on the Left turns, but there, I do occupy the center of the left turn lane. Then the traffic pattern can not threaten me the same way that they have while we move on the radius of the turn together. I have had no angry drivers when I do share the road this way.

If we all could get it into our thick heads, motorized and human powered commuters. The road is to be shared.
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Old 12-20-06, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BigAlMN
I keep my place in line on the right side of the road when there is no bike lane. I don't try to move to the front of the line so that they can all pass me on the way to the next light so that I can then run up along side of them at the next light and on and on.
I keep my place in line, too. But I usually stop in the center of the lane. After the light changes, I keep the lane as long as I travel at the same speed as traffic. When I can no longer keep pace with the vehicle in front of me, I move right.

I'm pretty much the only cyclist in town who doesn't filter. I'm such a dork.
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Old 12-20-06, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by chocula
I keep my place in line, too. But I usually stop in the center of the lane. After the light changes, I keep the lane as long as I travel at the same speed as traffic. When I can no longer keep pace with the vehicle in front of me, I move right.

I'm pretty much the only cyclist in town who doesn't filter. I'm such a dork.
Exactly what I do and same feelings, with some qualifications for moving right:
1. there is a vehicle behind me in same lane that could go faster
2. there is no possible right turn ahead for a 'good amount' of distance
3. the right side of the road is debris free

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Old 12-20-06, 03:47 PM
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BTW, sorry for the temporary post-jack and kudos to the OP for having the self-control to just let the crazy driver stew in his own anger. Engaging him only makes him feel even more justified.
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Old 12-20-06, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by squeakywheel
I'm talking about mandatory seat belt wearing
If someone gets into a head-on with me, I don't want them in my lap. That's why there's the seatbelt law. It's to prevent people from being ejected.
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