This is more like two riders running into each other on their way to work more than any kind of planned riding. But yeah, it does make it harder to concentrate, plus you both have to take more caution at red lights when neither of you feel like stopping. ;)

Of course there is plenty of funny and cool stuff about heavy traffic riding. There is also a bit of some very real danger. That only makes it more cool. It doesn't hurt to be careful, of course, but I betcha it's safer than lots of extreme sports out there.

....and of course inadvertently, the tempo increases, the carve a little tighter, and the race is on. :lol: The accidental alleycat. Man it is soo hard to get killed by a car in downtown traffic, mashed no, killed, yes. I can't remember what site I was reading but the line was along the lines of 'messengers are harder to kill than cockroaches" :lol:

I have a 20 year old Polish house mate who just got really in to cycling since he moved in with me nearly 2 years ago. He is so reckless it makes me cringe. He definitely likes riding in traffic.

He cycles assuming cars will stop for him. He literally thinks he OWNS THE ROAD. He bombs through red lights without slowing down or looking. He buzzes pedestrians because he thinks its fun. He rides at 1am on friday and saturday BECAUSE the drunk drivers are out. He then dive bombs drunk pedestrians on the street so close and fast I am literally afraid he will kill someone. He rides against one way streets at night without lights even if there are one way streets going the right direction 50 meters to either side. He pulls the most dangerous maneuvers for no reason.

He is almost impossible to ride with because he has no group riding etiquite and is totally unpredictable. Riding on the street he usually tries to pass you on your right. He sits on your wheel and then passes you on the left just when you need to merge left to avoid an obstacle. He will ride abreast with you and if you see an obstacle and start to slow down or speed up to get into single file, he will match your speed and then do somethign crazy at the last minute. He will often show off and go through an intersection really dangerously while the people riding with him stop and wait until its safe, meaning he has to wait at the other side of the intersection. He doesn't respect your line going in to a turn and cuts you off mid corner. He has come in contact with me more times that I can remember just riding.

He is generally a huge ass on the road, and rubs it in everybody's faces, with no responsibility or accountability. I'm waiting for the day he never shows up at home in the evening.

I keep yelling at him and trying to teach him, but he never listens. I asked him why he does it. Fun and adrenaline. Now I know why people make mean jokes about the Poles.

yes! :eek:

Okay, I'm not really trying to troll, but in the interest of full disclosure, I should state that I don't think I agree with the philosophy of always assuming the motorists don't see you. But the reason I say that is because I don't really understand how you can assume this. I'll grant you that I've only ever been a commuter, and only for 4 years, so I'm not the most experienced person here. Maybe some of you who advocate this philosophy can help me understand.

If it's just a matter of "trust but verify", I would agree with that. I never blindly assume that someone does see me. However, if I always assumed that they don't, how could I do any of the following:

• Take the full lane to stop at a red light? I'd be afraid that someone not seeing me right in front of them would rear-end me. (Yes, I know people have had this happen to them, but on the whole, I still think it's safer than staying to the right and letting a car get beside you in line. I maintain it's less likely the more hi-viz and lit up (at night) you are.)
• Move left into traffic to make a left-hand turn, when there are cars in the lane behind me? Even though I signal and look to make sure they are slowing down, if I still assumed that that meant nothing, how could I confidently move left?
• Ride past a side street where a car is waiting to enter the intersection? Again, I try to make eye contact and look at what they and their car are doing, but if I was never satisfied that they saw me, I'd have to stop and let the car go whenever I was not confident of beating them to the intersection.
• Ride somewhat out into the lane to improve my chances of being seen? I really think this does make a difference, and my experience bears this out, but the philosophy of invisibility seems to imply that it won't.

Taking it a step even further and always trying to keep out the cars' way sounds even more problematic to me, because that sounds to me like sticking to places where they don't have to see me, which sounds like sticking to places where they won't, which I think is more dangerous from both a visibility and predictablity standpoint.

Perhaps I'm just an old vehicular fogey with no hopes of understanding the messenger "one with the road" mindset and technique. But to answer the question of this thread, sometimes I do like riding in traffic. But it sounds like I do it very differently than some of you are talking about.

Ask him where he wants the memorial donations sent, while you still have the chance. :(

Because of the one polish person you know????

Yes. I'm a good judge of nationalities.

well....yeah, that happens too. :o makes you wonder if any of your co-workers' commutes was as exciting or as fun.

Yeah, I remember something along the same lines. Statistics of cyclists deaths year by year. Most years, messengers are absent from the list despite all the riding they do.

1. Yes :D
2. Yes

Yeah your right. I think you took me and others a bit too lituraly, but you know what I mean. Like you say it is more just because you should have been seen does not mean you have been seen. i.e When I ride through traffic lights (on green) and people on the other side of the road are waiting to cross in frount of me (turning right for me , left for you guys in the U.S and Ca) I assume they have not seen me ride ready to stop and / or change direction quickly to avoid being hit in the side. Similar methods are employed when there are merging lanes.

Do you represent all Canadians too? Or just the dim bulbs of any nationality?

He's joking for crying out loud, lighten up.

Sociopaths don't have a sense of humour TJ. And as we all know, I am a sociopath.

I'm a sociopath myself, and I'm outraged by your assertion that I don't have a sense of humor.

How 'bout you?