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getting stopped by cops

Old 02-15-07, 05:49 PM
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montlake_mtbkr
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getting stopped by cops

Do you by law have to give your drivers licence to cops who pull you over on your bike? Since no licence is required to operate a bike doesn't that mean you don't have to give it to them?
Any lawyers in the house?
I got a traffic ticket for going through a red light when it was clear and a criminal traffic citation for refusing to give my information. The light is one I "run" all the time since the trigger in the street doesn't detect bikes. Sure I shoulda just cooperated but I was pissed and on a rampage, but I'm kickiing myself in the ass now.
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Old 02-15-07, 05:58 PM
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You need to accurately identify yourself verbally
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Old 02-15-07, 05:59 PM
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I would assume the license is for IDing purposes? You can't just say you are joe blow from down the road now can you? The cop has to make sure you are who you say you are. It's fair enough to ask, but taking points off your license for running reds/traffic violations is something else... That's a big no-no.
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Old 02-15-07, 06:07 PM
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It varies from state to state.
In my state, if you're going to be cited for a minor offense, then you either produce some form of proper I.D. or get booked into jail to be indentified with fingerprints & mugshot. Fleeing or giving false information is--generally--a felony here.

You break the law and get caught it's time to man up and deal with it appropriately.
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Old 02-15-07, 06:11 PM
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There's a California case that says you have to produce a driver's license or "its functional equivalent"-- meaning some other form of government issued ID. I suspect that that standard will be applied in other states as well. You're lucky you didn't get arrested for failure to produce your ID-- that's what happened in the California case.

EDIT: You're not required to have a license to operate a bike; that's not the same thing as "not required to produce ID when you're stopped for a traffic violation." Do you see the difference?
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Old 02-15-07, 06:22 PM
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one if asked give your name
two if asked give your address and/or BD
if you still asked for ID and you don't have any, tell them that you dont have it, if you do, then produce
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Old 02-15-07, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by CastIron
You break the law and get caught it's time to man up and deal with it appropriately.
Giving lip to cops is generally not a good plan. You don't have to have a DL nor do you need to produce one. You do have to identify yourself, though, and if you do this verbally, don't be surprised if they check you out on the computer.

BTW, did the light that you ran have a button for peds? If so, you should use it. No one likes to stop if it looks pretty clear, but those lights that interfere with the free flow of traffic are there for a reason......
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Old 02-15-07, 07:24 PM
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I'm just tired of cops who harass cyclists and side with motorists and are just in general asses. I was at a critcal mass last year where a cop beat a cyclist who was blocking traffic for the group, for me. Smashed is (helmeted) head against the ground. Ever since then I've had a sour taste for cops. I realize giving a fake name and telling him to go f*** himself wasn't the best move. I dont suppose anyone can recommend a criminal defense attorney in washington?
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Old 02-15-07, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by noisebeam
one if asked give your name
two if asked give your address and/or BD
if you still asked for ID and you don't have any, tell them that you dont have it...
That's what the California cyclist did. He was then arrested and searched, and that's when they found the meth that sent him to prison...


Originally Posted by banerjek
Giving lip to cops is generally not a good plan. You don't have to have a DL nor do you need to produce one....
That is NOT what the California court held.
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Old 02-15-07, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by montlake_mtbkr
I was at a critcal mass last year
That explains a lot. The A&S forum is up there ^^^^
... where a cop beat a cyclist who was blocking traffic for the group, for me.
You realize blocking traffic is illegal, right? Even if it's in the name of activism and visibility. I recommend hanging out with cyclists whose IQ can't be confused with a chainring tooth count.
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Old 02-15-07, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by montlake_mtbkr
Do you by law have to give your drivers licence to cops who pull you over on your bike? Since no licence is required to operate a bike doesn't that mean you don't have to give it to them?
Any lawyers in the house?
I got a traffic ticket for going through a red light when it was clear and a criminal traffic citation for refusing to give my information. The light is one I "run" all the time since the trigger in the street doesn't detect bikes. Sure I shoulda just cooperated but I was pissed and on a rampage, but I'm kickiing myself in the ass now.
First, if the light fails to work, you have no choice but to run the light in the safest manner possible. Unless there is a button you could push that causes the light change in the crosswalk. If your turning left on an arrow that wouldn't work for you.

Second, I understand that you must identify yourself to a peace officer if your under suspicion for breaking the law. You don't have to tell them where you came from, or where your going, if it incriminates you in a crime. You have the right to remain silent...
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Old 02-15-07, 08:55 PM
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You're lucky you didn't get arrested for failure to produce your ID-- that's what happened in the California case.
that is insanity. If not having an i.d. makes you a suspect in a felony than ok, arrest me, but not producing an i.d. for running a light is not an arrestable offense. You get a ticket. Where can I find that case you're referring to.
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Old 02-15-07, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by socalcyclist
that is insanity. If not having an i.d. makes you a suspect in a felony than ok, arrest me, but not producing an i.d. for running a light is not an arrestable offense. You get a ticket. Where can I find that case you're referring to.
The courts are saying anything is an arrestable offense. Read about the woman who was arrested for not wearing a seat belt, in the same article:

Carrying I.D. While Riding
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Old 02-15-07, 09:09 PM
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You may be able to check some state laws re: moving through lights that aren't triggered by your vehicle. I seem to remember at least a few which have passed these for motorcyclists if not bicycles. I don't recall well enough to know where I saw this info though. Good Luck.
BTW generally it's not the best idea to tick off someone who has all the power, but I guess you already know that.
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Old 02-15-07, 09:21 PM
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Wi. just passed a law that allows you to run red if it is a light that is triggered by weight sensors. You have to wait 45 secs and then proceed. It is primarily aimed at mc's but I assume that it will be true for bikes as well.
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Old 02-15-07, 10:06 PM
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Well, I'm not a lawyer but this is what I have been taught:

After most areas of the US decriminalized most traffic violations (in some areas running a light is still a "real" crime) and made them civil infractions the courts were kind of iffy on whether Police Officers had the right to arrest for those violations until the US Supreme Court clarified the issue in the case Blue Order has cited.

Either way, you are required to identify yourself to a Police Officer in the type of scenario you describe to the satisfaction of that Officer. The practical reality is that if that were not the case everyone would just give fake names and lots of people would have warrants out for them for offenses they never committed.

Sorry about your previous bad experiences with the police, and good luck on your defense.
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Old 02-15-07, 10:08 PM
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Can't you get a non-driver's license ID? In NY, you can get one at the DMV oddly enough. It's for people who don't drive that still need identification. Leave the license at home and present that instead.
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Old 02-15-07, 10:24 PM
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http://www.papersplease.org/hiibel/

Supreme court says that yes you do have to identify yourself, but you can then invoke your Miranda rights (Even before the officer reads them to you) and you do not have to say anything else.
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Old 02-15-07, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jyossarian
Can't you get a non-driver's license ID? In NY, you can get one at the DMV oddly enough. It's for people who don't drive that still need identification. Leave the license at home and present that instead.
In OR, you can only have one or the other. You'd have to give up your license to get a state ID. It's pretty simple for me. The Portland police only have their cyclist traffic stings on Wednesdays, so I just ride super legal every Wednesday, and I'm fine.
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Old 02-15-07, 10:37 PM
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...or carry a passport.
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Old 02-15-07, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by socalcyclist
that is insanity. If not having an i.d. makes you a suspect in a felony than ok, arrest me, but not producing an i.d. for running a light is not an arrestable offense. You get a ticket. Where can I find that case you're referring to.
Same here(Colorado) as others are saying: You don't HAVE to have an ID with you, but you DO have to identify yourself to the satisfaction of the officer, or they can hold you until they can identify you to their satisfaction. Note that this is not necessarily an 'arrest', but they can keep you at the station for quite a while if they want.
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Old 02-15-07, 11:08 PM
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you're going to have to fight this in court now. check with your local bicycle advocacy group--there are lawyers who specialize in bicycle law. their bread and butter tends to be bike vs. car things, but they often do some pro bono cases for stuff like this. it allows them to get exposure and pass their name around while advocating for sensible bike policies. tough road ahead.
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Old 02-15-07, 11:31 PM
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In Ontario, to the best of my knowledge, you can receive demerit points for infractions commited while on a bike. Most cyclists I know don't keep their driver's license in a conspicuous place in their wallet and often claim they left their wallet at home as a result.
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Old 02-15-07, 11:55 PM
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The law in Washington states that you can "run" a red light if you've waited 2 consecutive cycles and the signal hasn't switched for you. (induction loop or weight sensor doesn't register) You do have the responsibility in that case to make sure that you are clear to safely proceed through the intersection.
You can't just blow through a light because you know it won't trip for you.

The Revised Code of Washington mentions proof of ID when bicycling:
A bicycle rider who refuses to cooperate with a police officer or to present proof of identification will be subject to arrest for obstructing a law enforcement officer under the provisions of chapter 9A.76 RCW and/or criminal trespass under the provisions of chapter 9A.52 RCW.

Originally Posted by montlake mtbkr
a cop beat a cyclist who was blocking traffic for the group, for me. Smashed is (helmeted) head against the ground.
OK, the officer took things too far if (s)he beat someone for corking. While corking is a crime, I doubt that was the only offense leading up to said beating, though.

Originally Posted by montlake mtbkr
Ever since then I've had a sour taste for cops. I realize giving a fake name and telling him to go f*** himself wasn't the best move.
RCW 46.61.020
(1) It is unlawful for any person while operating or in charge of any vehicle to refuse when requested by a police officer to give his or her name and address and the name and address of the owner of such vehicle, or for such person to give a false name and address...
(2) A violation of this section is a misdemeanor.


...and throw in "verbal assault" against an officer by the definitions in RCW sections 9, 49 and 74, all specifying "swearing" as verbal assault.
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Old 02-15-07, 11:56 PM
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So... my question is: Nevada law says you have to provide your name. NOT an ID... I didn't see anywhere in the transcript where the officer asks for his name... only demands the ID.

How in the world did they convict him?

I hate courts.
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